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#1241593 - Sat Aug 31 2019 06:41 AM Re: Team of the Year 2019
Terry Offline
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Looney: all players on the team who play (even outside the 8) get the team points I’m pretty sure?

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#1241604 - Sat Aug 31 2019 09:58 AM Re: Team of the Year 2019
Dagny1 Offline
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Registered: Sun Nov 14 2010
Posts: 535
Loc: Alabama USA
I think they're talking about points for scoring in the team vs team competition, not the team points we got for playing Team Heroes and the main team vs team game.

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#1241605 - Sat Aug 31 2019 10:54 AM Re: Team of the Year 2019
brm50diboll Online   content
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Registered: Sat May 25 2013
Posts: 598
Loc: Texas USA
Yes. Dagny1 is correct. I believe the reference is to what is referred to as "TvT contribution points" which maxes out at +120 for the top finisher in a league in a game and is capped at 8 players per team in League A and fewer in the other leagues.

In my opinion, this cap *must* remain. Eliminating it would yield a colossal advantage right back to the big teams, which is exactly what these reforms are trying to eliminate. I'm sorry, but just have no sympathy for that position. If a player can't finish in the top 8 in his own team, why does he think he should contribute points for that?


Edited by brm50diboll (Sat Aug 31 2019 10:54 AM)
Edit Reason: typo

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#1241607 - Sat Aug 31 2019 11:18 AM Re: Team of the Year 2019
Terry Offline
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Registered: Wed Dec 31 1969
Posts: 21449
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: brm50diboll

In my opinion, this cap *must* remain. Eliminating it would yield a colossal advantage right back to the big teams, which is exactly what these reforms are trying to eliminate. I'm sorry, but just have no sympathy for that position. If a player can't finish in the top 8 in his own team, why does he think he should contribute points for that?


Please stop trying to create imaginary controversy.

No one has suggested the 8/6/5/4 caps be removed.

The caps are the entire point of the new system.

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#1241608 - Sat Aug 31 2019 11:29 AM Re: Team of the Year 2019
brm50diboll Online   content
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Registered: Sat May 25 2013
Posts: 598
Loc: Texas USA
I apologize. I am not trying to create controversy. I support the 8/6/5/4 caps. I think there are players that have expressed a desire to change those numbers though. I think they are fine the way they are.

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#1241622 - Sat Aug 31 2019 11:00 PM Re: Team of the Year 2019
gracious1 Offline
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Registered: Tue May 01 2012
Posts: 1750
Loc: New York USA
Originally Posted By: brm50diboll
I apologize. I am not trying to create controversy. I support the 8/6/5/4 caps. I think there are players that have expressed a desire to change those numbers though.


I think I and one other person suggested changing it from 8/6/5/4 to 7/6/5/4, as it it still gives too much of an advantage to a larger team to have 8 scores count.


Edited by gracious1 (Sat Aug 31 2019 11:01 PM)
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#1241625 - Sun Sep 01 2019 12:52 AM Re: Team of the Year 2019
brianbreese Offline
Participant

Registered: Sun Dec 08 2013
Posts: 19
Loc: Georgia USA
Originally Posted By: gracious1
Originally Posted By: brm50diboll
I apologize. I am not trying to create controversy. I support the 8/6/5/4 caps. I think there are players that have expressed a desire to change those numbers though.


I think I and one other person suggested changing it from 8/6/5/4 to 7/6/5/4, as it it still gives too much of an advantage to a larger team to have 8 scores count.


For what little it's worth Grace, I agree with you also. 7 does seem better for the 'A' league teams.

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#1241676 - Sun Sep 01 2019 01:15 PM Re: Team of the Year 2019
HairyBear Offline
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Registered: Fri Sep 01 2006
Posts: 711
Loc: Florida USA
Personally, I thought ten was a good number.

My thought on the large number of players playing but only eight counting was that it would be nice if all those additional people playing contributed to our score in some way, like an additional one point per person or something like that. Then the people at the nether end of the bell curve wouldn't feel like they were wasting their time even trying. They'd be contributing even if they weren't in the top 8.

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#1241687 - Sun Sep 01 2019 02:27 PM Re: Team of the Year 2019
brianbreese Offline
Participant

Registered: Sun Dec 08 2013
Posts: 19
Loc: Georgia USA
Bear, I'd be happy to sacrifice my 'big' one point bonus, if it would improve the team's average score on the quiz (which it would). Just my feelings on the subject.

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#1241694 - Sun Sep 01 2019 05:41 PM Re: Team of the Year 2019
looney_tunes Offline
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Registered: Tue Jan 20 2009
Posts: 5976
Loc: Briar Hill Victoria Australia
But those additional people adding a point each swings the total points available in favor of bigger teams, who are already at an advantage because they are more likely to have 8 good players than is the case for a team scrambling to get 8 players.

Those who don't make the top 8 should be encouraged to see it as an incentive to hone their skills. Perhaps they could pick one particular game and play it as much as possible. When I first joined my team, I recall playing the Mixed Game endlessly, and getting a badge as much for the number of plays as for the actual scores per game. I got much better over that month! Same strategy is no good for the Easy Game - my internet connection is simply too slow - but I plan to work on my other weakest games now that they are part of the team competition. (Have I ever said how much I hate Fill Me In, as a single accidental hitting of the key beside the one I wanted destroys the whole thing? Still, ...)
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#1241700 - Sun Sep 01 2019 09:20 PM Re: Team of the Year 2019
HairyBear Offline
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Registered: Fri Sep 01 2006
Posts: 711
Loc: Florida USA
Originally Posted By: looney_tunes
But those additional people adding a point each swings the total points available in favor of bigger teams, who are already at an advantage because they are more likely to have 8 good players than is the case for a team scrambling to get 8 players.

Those who don't make the top 8 should be encouraged to see it as an incentive to hone their skills. Perhaps they could pick one particular game and play it as much as possible. When I first joined my team, I recall playing the Mixed Game endlessly, and getting a badge as much for the number of plays as for the actual scores per game. I got much better over that month! Same strategy is no good for the Easy Game - my internet connection is simply too slow - but I plan to work on my other weakest games now that they are part of the team competition. (Have I ever said how much I hate Fill Me In, as a single accidental hitting of the key beside the one I wanted destroys the whole thing? Still, ...)

I don't see it that way, as several of the best teams are also smaller teams. Meanwhile, the Calculators, the biggest team on the site by number of active players, struggles to be competitive in any of the games. As for "honing your skill", there's only so far you can improve based on memory, speed, and amount of time available to invest. Most people have a life outside of FT. The one month I managed to finish 4th in Who's the Smartest back under the old scoring system when there was no penalty for doing badly in a game I was playing 16 hours a day, 7 days a week. A) Most people don't have that kind of free time. B) Most people wouldn't want to invest that much energy. I did well, but I still wasn't the best, and never would be. How much more is that true for people with a life and a less than Ivy League intelligence level?

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#1241709 - Mon Sep 02 2019 01:05 AM Re: Team of the Year 2019
kaddarsgirl Offline
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Registered: Wed Jun 27 2012
Posts: 1850
Loc: Ohio USA
Originally Posted By: HairyBear
Originally Posted By: looney_tunes
But those additional people adding a point each swings the total points available in favor of bigger teams, who are already at an advantage because they are more likely to have 8 good players than is the case for a team scrambling to get 8 players.

Those who don't make the top 8 should be encouraged to see it as an incentive to hone their skills. Perhaps they could pick one particular game and play it as much as possible. When I first joined my team, I recall playing the Mixed Game endlessly, and getting a badge as much for the number of plays as for the actual scores per game. I got much better over that month! Same strategy is no good for the Easy Game - my internet connection is simply too slow - but I plan to work on my other weakest games now that they are part of the team competition. (Have I ever said how much I hate Fill Me In, as a single accidental hitting of the key beside the one I wanted destroys the whole thing? Still, ...)

I don't see it that way, as several of the best teams are also smaller teams. Meanwhile, the Calculators, the biggest team on the site by number of active players, struggles to be competitive in any of the games. As for "honing your skill", there's only so far you can improve based on memory, speed, and amount of time available to invest. Most people have a life outside of FT. The one month I managed to finish 4th in Who's the Smartest back under the old scoring system when there was no penalty for doing badly in a game I was playing 16 hours a day, 7 days a week. A) Most people don't have that kind of free time. B) Most people wouldn't want to invest that much energy. I did well, but I still wasn't the best, and never would be. How much more is that true for people with a life and a less than Ivy League intelligence level?


I agree with Looney. Just because one large team isn’t necessarily competitive doesn’t mean that all large teams are uncompetitive. I can see how giving what essentially amounts to “points for participating” to all players of a large team is unbalanced and unfair to smaller teams who have to scrape together enough scores to count. Small teams are already being “penalized” by having fewer chances to have top scores simply because they have fewer people. Large teams don’t need another advantage on top of that by giving everyone who plays a point. Some large teams are competitive and some aren’t. Some small teams are competitive and some aren’t. The current system of limiting the number of qualifying scores seems to me like the best way of attempting to keep the playing field even for all.
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#1241710 - Mon Sep 02 2019 02:46 AM Re: Team of the Year 2019
HairyBear Offline
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Registered: Fri Sep 01 2006
Posts: 711
Loc: Florida USA
Originally Posted By: kaddarsgirl
I agree with Looney. Just because one large team isn’t necessarily competitive doesn’t mean that all large teams are uncompetitive. I can see how giving what essentially amounts to “points for participating” to all players of a large team is unbalanced and unfair to smaller teams who have to scrape together enough scores to count. Small teams are already being “penalized” by having fewer chances to have top scores simply because they have fewer people. Large teams don’t need another advantage on top of that by giving everyone who plays a point. Some large teams are competitive and some aren’t. Some small teams are competitive and some aren’t. The current system of limiting the number of qualifying scores seems to me like the best way of attempting to keep the playing field even for all.

For the most part, I agree with this. My only objection is that I have a great many players who play often but were rarely in the top 10 under the old system and are going to be even less likely to be in the top eight under the new system. ~40 Wizards play the team games each day, more or less, but only 12 ranked in the top eight in any team game yesterday. In a week, maybe 20 will, with ~60 playing. So 40 won't ever hit that top eight in a week's worth of playing. What's in it for them?

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#1241713 - Mon Sep 02 2019 03:17 AM Re: Team of the Year 2019
WesleyCrusher Offline

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Registered: Thu Sep 04 2008
Posts: 7583
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: HairyBear

For the most part, I agree with this. My only objection is that I have a great many players who play often but were rarely in the top 10 under the old system and are going to be even less likely to be in the top eight under the new system. ~40 Wizards play the team games each day, more or less, but only 12 ranked in the top eight in any team game yesterday. In a week, maybe 20 will, with ~60 playing. So 40 won't ever hit that top eight in a week's worth of playing. What's in it for them?


Players will get team points towards their Stakeholder / Magnate / Tycoon and associated upgrades for all games they participate in. With the current draft, at least 2/3 of these points come solely for participation and do not depend on performance at all.
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#1241758 - Mon Sep 02 2019 01:46 PM Re: Team of the Year 2019
gracious1 Offline
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Registered: Tue May 01 2012
Posts: 1750
Loc: New York USA
Originally Posted By: HairyBear
[font:Book Antiqua]Personally, I thought ten was a good number.

My thought on the large number of players playing but only eight counting was that it would be nice if all those additional people playing contributed to our score in some way, like an additional one point per person or something like that.


That seems really wrong prima facie. Larger teams have a built-in competitive advantage. If someone isn't feeling well that day, there are people, who perhaps normally score below him/her, to take up the slack. On a small team, say with only 8 or 9 people who regularly play anything, if someone is sick or Real Life prevents them from playing, there's nobody score in his/her place.

You ask in another post "what's in it for them?"
They do get Team Points which in turn give them badges. They should also play for the fun of it? Are you concerned that you will lose team members to smaller teams so they can be a big frog in a small pond? As someone who used to be on a very large team, I would say that more likely, they will want to stay with a winning team, even if their own contribution never makes it to the top 8.
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