I'm not sure I like the idea of the rotating days as there will end up being a significant number of no shows when people forget to unregister if they aren't going to be able to play - and it would likely be much worse than it is under the current system since you might end up in a situation where you want to continue playing if you win but know that you will be away in a few days so don't want to start a new tournament.

I do have an alternative idea which would be to add consolation tournaments. For people who lose on Tuesday, they go into a 3 day consolation tournament starting Wednesday where winning each day gives 0.5 KO points and winning the tournament gives 0.5 win point towards ruby/emerald/diamond. It means everyone playing in a week gets at least two days to play and those in the tougher brackets will likely get easier competition the rest of the week.

Me too. (It's what I was saying in a nutshell.)

I consider the feedback that a rolling tournament would create more no-shows interesting - the main reason I stopped playing KO myself was that I missed way too many games on the "some days do, most don't" schedule. It just fell out of my routine somehow.

I'd like to hear from others - would you think you'd play more or less reliably if you had a game every day, all seven days of the week?

I think it would rekindle my interest. I haven't played KO for quite a while because I was in tournament 1 most of the time with little chance of progress.

If it would be possible to create rolling tournaments, would then a subscribe/unsubscribe action take effect immediately after the present tournametn ends?

For instance: I'm off on Friday, August 9 for a weekend. But if I were to unsubscribe on Monday 5 August, it has only effect (in the current state of things) for the tournament starting on Tuesday 13 August - quite counterintuitive.

I would like to have the option to (un)subscribe for the very next starting tournament - so unsubscribing on August 5 would take effect on August 6, August 7, August 8 - the exact day I'm eliminated in the current tournament. Likewise, if I subscribe on August 5 I hope to start August 6, not (as things are programmed nowadays) August 13.

The way I envision it is that subscribe is very much an on/off switch.

If it's on, you get entered into a new tournament whenever you are eligible for it (i.e. you didn't advance in the previous one). If it's off, you don't get added to any tournaments. Once you're out, that's it.

So if you subscribe on the 14th (and haven't played for a while), you would start a tournament on the 15th - the next available day. You win your first round, then lose the second (16th), so you start a second tournament on the 17th. If you then unsubscribe again on the 17th, you'd finish that second tournament and be done (which could be on the 17th, 18th, 19th or 20th, depending on how far you advance). It won't add you to any more brackets, regardless of how far you get in that second bracket.

Of course any no-show would switch you to off in any case - although you could get back in the day after, without any "you need to wait until Sunday to resubscribe" confusion.

(I guess we could actually have a third option "Tuesday only" for the lovers of the current rhythm. That one would simply ignore when you lose and enter you for one bracket per week, each Tuesday.)

I’ll not sure I like the idea of rolling tournaments. I feel it would create far more no shows and dilute knockout too much. I did like the idea of having a second consolation tournament on Wednesday’s for people who lost in the first round. Maybe for that tournament they only get points for winning the final round?

Ok, I've gone through the posts above. It all makes sense to me...

Not sure I'm on board with the rolling tournament idea... I think what we've got now is fine, and adding more complexity to cater to specific badges is a bit backwards (if anything the badges should be changed -- but I dont think that's necessary). The whole week-long KO scheduling / subscription / ranking system is also probably the most complicated bit of coding on the site, and something that I'd rather not redo.

I like the idea of simply changing the "base ranking" of players to account for wins. So sort of like KO points/KO wins, but only after a certain number of points. So new players stay down in the lower decks with an effective ranking of "0" for a handful of tournaments before ranking against everyone else. I will also adjust the "slippage" factor a bit, so players are less likely to clump with exactly the same people week after week.

I like taking into account total wins.

I think it also might be nice to have a few brackets to have players who haven't won in over a year to compete against others who haven't won in over a year. I see some folks in the higher levels who haven't won in over 2 to 3 years or more. I won every few months when I started but haven't won in 2019 yet.

Points / wins seems a very unusual metric if that's actually meant to be "divided by" because it would actually reduce the rating if I win my brackets - those who win often would find themselves in the lower reaches while tournament #1 would be people who tend to lose their semis and finals a lot.

Points multiplied by wins (or rather by wins plus a small constant to deal with new players who have 0 or very few wins) would work. It would mean that players who are win-starved get a better chance and a lower division than those who, at the same overall points, have won a lot.

I'd still personally like to have more chances to play however and I think the current signup system is not working well, especially when it comes to subscriptions. Subscribing on a Monday does not actually enter you into the next round (since subscriptions are only checked at 12:01 am), unsubscribing on a Monday does not let a player withdraw from the event they had just been entered into and the way subscribing interacts with no shows is completely counter-intuitive (it only removes the subscription on Saturday nights so if you want to stay in, you only have the Sunday to correctly resubscribe. Resubscribing earlier is canceled even if you do it manually). If reducing complexity (for players!) is a goal, certainly that system should be looked at.

Oh, wow! I always thought Monday was the day to sign up. For ages I've been reminding anyone on automatic that was a no-show to sign up on Monday. Thanks for this, Wes (whether it gets changed or not).

I'm pretty sure signing up on Monday works just fine. I did it this week, in fact.

Feel like I've unsubscribed on Monday before, too.

That's what I thought too, but it's been a really long time since I had to do it so wondered if something had changed. Sounds like not from what you posted. Thanks. Maybe the different time zones affects some players if they aren't alert to the actual FT time.

If I said points/wins, then I was in error. I meant wins/points (literally wins divided by points).

EDIT: Just checked. I did say wins/points originally

I agree that the current metric of using only KO points to seed players is flawed and leads to many undesirable matchups. Factoring in bracket wins and length of time since last bracket win is a good idea that will improve matchup quality. For those who say that this may cause complaints about being placed in brackets with widely different KO points, I say, show the actual metric being used. Instead of seeing the raw unadjusted KO points, show the "adjusted" KO points. Then everyone will realize that they "belong" where they are.

Seconded.

I have no problems with the existing set-up, but have a suggestion.

Would it be possible/sensible to arrange for Gold Members and Regular Members to oppose only players of similar standing?

The reason I ask is that Regular Members who have a choice of only 5 daily duels, will obviously select their 5 strongest fields of expertise. This is fine when playing standard duel games, but when playing specialized subjects such as "Sailor Moon" or "West Wing" etc etc, the Regular Member will usually have a significant advantage if it's one of their chosen duels.

This conversation is about the weekly knockout game rather than the daily duel.

Apologies, I must pay more attention!

Change has been made:

FunTrivia Knockout Change: We have tweaked the weekly ranking algorithm to take not only "knockout points" into account, but also total KO wins. Players who win more will find themselves in tournaments with tougher opponents.

Good to hear, Terry. I'm curious how things will play out the next few weeks.

Is it based on total weeks won or is there a factor based on how many of the wins have been recent?

Total. Keeping it simple for starters.

Just tried to sign up for this week's KO....here's what the pages says:

Sorry, you must wait until next Monday to register for next week's tournaments!

Then, just below that...

Attention New Players!
You can register for this weekly game on Mondays only, or subscribe to play next week.

What am I missing here? It's Monday, right?

Thanks

The game still seems to think it's Sunday, because that's also what's highlighted in the weekly calendar.

Knockout fixed. Was a side-effect issue stemming from my ranking alteration.