Actually, "stealing" a round can pretty easily be prevented if one of the original group were to step off the target number, letting the rest of their friends succeed and thwarting the one who tried to break it. If your group included selfless helpers, that's actually a no-brainer: One of those would just play a quiz and thus restore the proper group size.

Making it work like it is makes it a social game more than just an exercise in point precision. Let's give it a try.

The intention was by the way not that, for most attempts, a group of nine would form and see it through. That was merely given as an example for how you could grind the badge.

If you wish to have the most enjoyment out of it, don't just grind it over 11 days with a fixed group (you can actually do it faster - 9 is not the optimum size), but try finding different friends on each tier and make some deals on helping each other if you need some players outside your own tier to make the desired one.

I noticed the same thing myself.

Although now that I have reread this, I don't quite get it. If 8 people make the requirement, then 6 make the requirement as well, so everyone should advance. Or am I not understanding this at all?

Why won't someone help with such a simple request?

Quick Quiz...checkmark when max is reached!

HairyBear, Gracious1 et al:

what's in for the tier 5 player? The idea here is cooperation without 100% selfishness. The tier 6s can't get to 7 without that 5 (or whatever) helping them. On the other hand, that 5 might not want to get nothing out of it.

So, in the ideal case for a 5, some of the current 6s would first help out the 5 to become a 6 as well and then they'd all make 7 together. Everyone benefits, although the 5 gets more out of it (he gets 2 tiers while everyone else only gets one for the same work).

In the ideal case for someone lower than 5, the deal would be for some of the wannabe (or newly minted) 7s to also then help the low tier advance one on the next day. In that case, everyone plays twice for one advancement, but everyone gets more than nothing.

It's quite intentional that you may have to help others and not just tick off a score precision task six times.

terraorca, did it occur to you that Terry's time might be limited and that adding this checkmark might not be the first priority? Asking every few days is not going to speed up things.

I had thought that others, not just Terry, might be able to complete such a seemingly simple task.
A lot of things seem to get done without Terry's direct involvement.
I did not want my suggestion to get lost in the wash.

Anything that is coding can be done by Terry only. A lot of other stuff can be done by several people, but actual coding, even a simple one (and it might not actually be as simple as you think to add a check, depending how the number of quick questions already played is stored - some seemingly simple things can get rather difficult if you want to make sure performance does not suffer) is done only by Terry.

The closest anyone else can get to coding is the stage games (Race, AinA, etc.) , which are built with a special web interface.

Thanks for that explanatory response. I can wait, I just thought that my suggestion was going to be buried amidst the conversation about the new Key upgrades.

Hi, Wes, I've changed from "I don't think it's fair" to "I don't actually understand how this works." I think you're going to have to explain it like I'm five. Cuz right now, I don't even see how it works at all, never mind whether or not it requires selflessness.

I'm not quite sure how to explain it better.

To make any given tier, you need a group of the exact right size. If you want tier 6, exactly eight people need the same score. Not seven, nine, or sixteen.

If not all of those eight are at tier 5 at the start of the attempt, of course that means not all eight will get something from that play. Only the tier 5s do.

But this is where making a deal comes in. Let's assume you have just four T5s who want that T6. So you need four others to help you without any benefit on that day.

BUT, nothing will stop you from repaying them on the next day. Or helping them on the day before. So if you can find four T4 players, three of the T6 hopefuls could first help those T4s to make T5 and then all eight move on to T6. Great thing.

But maybe you find only T3s, but they help you anyway. Then the next day, two of those who just profited from their help, now in turn help THEM reach T4.

I guess that wasn't any clearer - more words don't seem to help.

The basic idea is "You help me today, I help you tomorrow". That way, both get something. If you only play when you can personally profit, you will very likely not get very far on this ladder - the idea is that you SHOULD help out someone else get their tier (use that day of play to achieve some other goals, such as some 24 Hours tiers if you don't feel like playing just for the points or the fun) even though you don't get anything from that particular day in return for them helping you.

By the way, if you absolutely want to complete tier 7 without anyone ever playing a game they don't profit from, you'll only need to find 2,519 like-minded friends. In a 2,520 strong group, every number from 3 to 9 will evenly divide.

If that number is a little too big for you, 15 is very efficient in terms of progress per effort:

Day 1: 5 groups of 3 = all on T1
Day 2: 3 groups of 4 = 12 on T2, 3 on T1
Day 3: 1 group of 4, 2 groups of 5 = 10 on T3, 5 on T2 (1 "wasted" play)
Day 4: 1 group of 5, 1 group of 6 = 6 on T4, 9 on T3
Day 5: 2 groups of 6 = all on T4 (3 "wasted" plays)
Day 6: 2 groups of 7 = 14 on T5, 1 on T4
Day 7: 1 group of 7, 1 group of 8 = 8 on T6, 7 on T5 (6 "wasted" plays)
Day 8: 1 group of 8 = all on T6 (1 "wasted" play)
Day 9 and 10: 1 group of 9 each day = all made it (3 "wasted" plays).

That's only 14 extra plays total for 15 players, average of less than one (although I don't know if it can be arranged such that all 14 would be different people).

"I had thought that others, not just Terry, might be able to complete such a seemingly simple task."

Please place requests like this in the "minor issues" thread. I go through them all at once periodically. Placing minor requests in places like this just get overlooked. Thanks.

I posted this idea before in a previous thread but I think the thread is gone so i'll try again.

I was thinking we could use some more badges in knockout. What about a badge that goes likes this.

Tier 1 - Score 6000 total points (1500 points per round)
Tier 2 - Score 6250 total points (1562.5 points per round)
Tier 3 - Score 6500 total points (1625 points per round)
Tier 4 - Score 6750 total points (1687.5 points per round)
Tier 5 - Score 7000 total points (1750 points per round)
Tier 6 - Score 7250 total points (1812.5 points per round)
Tier 7 - Score 7500 total points (1875 points per round)

It will obviously be a difficult badge but the tiers could be made lower. I had also had a thought of instead of making it total points where you need to play all 4 rounds for a chance to win the badge, it could be an average that only requires at least 3 games to play. That way, if you have 3 good scores but unfortunately lose, then you could still get the badge. In theory, someone could no show the final if they have a high enough average and would be worried about losing a tier, but I hope that wouldn't happen. Maybe make a condition that a no show in the final round would null the tier upgrade?

We could name it "Consistent KO" or something like that

I am not sure that would for a fair or fun badge. The problem is not the no show (a no show is still a scheduled game and a 0 so you'd ruin any average) but rather the fact that this is a "get it early or never" award.

Once you are at a high division in knockout, even high scores will not necessarily lead to advancing, so that a high division player will have maybe one chance in 8 (at a 50% advancement chance) to even *play* the four games (or 1 in 4 if you only need 3). If you shoot to a point above where you'd be a 50/50 chance to move on by a few lucky rounds, the rate gets much worse and it takes a long time to drop back.

As a net effect, players might be able to play really good averages and still have practically no chance at getting this, especially since every semifinal or final appearance will make them rise further and face even tougher opponents. The best way for them to win at that point would be to sandbag - throw first round games for quite some time - in order to drop down divisions and only then to try.

That's hardly what we want to encourage.

If we want new KO badges, we should look at entirely different upgrade paths that actually reward or require reaching and winning in high divisions.

Such as

Tier 1 - Win any division 3 times over a period of 6 months
Tier 2 - Win division 45 or better 3 times in 6 months
Tier 3 - Win division 30 or better 3 times...

You only need to win 3 out of 26 possible games (which is still twice the random rate of 1 per 16 = 3 per 48) but it quickly gets a lot harder due to the fact that you'll get those against ever tougher opposition...

I think we don't always know if a request has been seen or considered. There is often no answer to a question or an acknowledgement of a post. Things get bumped down with new posts and seem to get lost in the shuffle. Just sayin'.

Added upgradeable Badge "Four Across". It has been retroactively awarded:

Tier 1 - author crosswords in 4 different categories. (38 players)
Tier 2 - author crosswords in 6 different categories. (14 players)
Tier 3 - author crosswords in 8 different categories. (12 players)
Tier 4 - author crosswords in 10 different categories. (5 players)
Tier 5 - author crosswords in 12 different categories. (7 players)
Tier 6 - author crosswords in 14 different categories. (5 players)
Tier 7 - author crosswords in 16 different categories. (8 players)
T7 Club : spanishliz stuthehistoryguy skunkee zorba_scank mutchisman Soozy_Woozy bernie73 1nn1

^ A nice surprise. Thank you, Terry!

It's much appreciated, and as CmdrK has said above "a nice surprise"

Many thanks Terry.

Does the old timers badge technically update based on 365 days in a year? I was awarded my Tier 7 a couple days before I hit 17 years, and it showed me as just slightly over at that time.

Not a big deal, I just found it amusing.

I have just found the notification in my mail, a very nice surprise indeed and much appreciated. Thank you Terry!

Thank you Terry! It looks lovely

Thanks very much, Terry! I've been in the writer's block blues. This might get me writing again.

I've had to check which categories I need to complete to upgrade to the T7 club.
Fortunately, only one is needed from either For Children, Hobbies, Humanities, Video Games or World.
The only thing I know for certain is that it won't be Video Games! Apologies Kyle if you happen to see this, but I wouldn't know where to begin.

Actually, I wouldn't mind trying to make a VG puzzle, but it can be a killer finding enough words when you're not very familiar with the subject.

Donkey ___, Legend of ___, Grand Theft ___ gets old pretty quick.