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#1281453 - Wed Jan 20 2021 03:01 AM Re: remove ELO ratings from Expert Game
nasty_liar Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Sun Oct 05 2008
Posts: 507
Loc: Sheffield
Yorkshire UK
Originally Posted By: nasty_liar
I don’t pay much attention to the ELO rating of other players for the reason that eyhung outlines. There are very clear tactics available for those who wish to inflate the ELO in this game just as there were when the ELOs were present in Smartest and Piece of Cake.

It would be interesting to hear from someone that really supports the ELO system remaining in this game and read the reasons they would give.


I was hoping for someone to provide an alternative view here ^

I would be interested to read those reasons you support the ELO. As for communication, how do you think changes like this can be communicated or discussed with players who don’t read here? A message on the top of a game page asking for comments perhaps? Like, “we are considering making changes to this game please visit the forums here (link) to read the details”?

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#1281455 - Wed Jan 20 2021 03:26 AM Re: remove ELO ratings from Expert Game
WesleyCrusher Offline

Administrator

Registered: Thu Sep 04 2008
Posts: 7583
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: robbonz
You have removed all incentives for playing the Expert game at Champion level except for the small number of players able to compete with the previous top scores.
The changes could have been better communicated to players, not everybody reads the forum or Buzz (not sure if it was on the latter.) It would have been helpful (and still would be) if something could be put on the main pages for Who's the Expert. I was puzzled by what was going on and I am likely not the only one, I finally was enlightened (but disappointed) when I came here and saw this discussion.


Actually, there is still an important incentive to play at champ level after winning - you can help your team's league rank by getting a good score in your best topic every day!

However, if you are looking for some stats that encourage personal improvement, we could consider adding a personal high score, similar to how the original ELO had your own number beneath the list. And unlike with ELO, you won't have to worry about your less favorite topics dragging down your rank, so now you can shoot for a lucky win on all those topics you may have avoided because those bottom half finishes were poison to ELO ranks. So, while there may be less incentive to replay the topics you won as champ, you have even more reason to try those you still lack the champ victory for!
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#1281458 - Wed Jan 20 2021 04:09 AM Re: remove ELO ratings from Expert Game
Barbarini Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Sat Sep 04 2010
Posts: 722
Loc: Alberta Canada
The Elo ratings are still there...just click the link on the Experts page.

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#1281532 - Wed Jan 20 2021 06:55 PM Re: remove ELO ratings from Expert Game
andymuenz Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Sep 14 2014
Posts: 356
Loc: Pennsylvania USA
Even for those of us who are not super fast, we can get on the leaderboard with our niche category (just noticed I am 3rd in NASCAR). In the old ELO system, I was never near the top of the board.

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#1281533 - Wed Jan 20 2021 08:51 PM Re: remove ELO ratings from Expert Game
satguru Online   content
Forum Champion

Registered: Thu Feb 17 2000
Posts: 8090
Loc: Kingsbury London UK           
It's double sided, but although removing the ratings encourage more wins in obscure areas once you've won quite a few then playing against everyone else in total is quite a challenge. Of course unlike word wizard which is the same each go, tactics are at least half the system with ratings, but they are not perfect and easy to trip up in even the most familiar subject, and it's also possible do well in normally tougher ones so worth taking risks.

But the current position using both does seem to work the best, as if the ratings stop being annual then we can play on and on indefinitely, knowing if we muck up one game we have time to recover. The ratings for word wizard using the percentile system suit it well and can persist indefinitely as they are, and don't lose a pile for a mistake, but each league table has to be adapted to the nature of the game.


Edited by satguru (Wed Jan 20 2021 08:52 PM)
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#1281544 - Thu Jan 21 2021 09:21 AM Re: remove ELO ratings from Expert Game
nasty_liar Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Sun Oct 05 2008
Posts: 507
Loc: Sheffield
Yorkshire UK
Originally Posted By: Barbarini
The Elo ratings are still there...just click the link on the Experts page.


Thanks Barbarini.
Are these still live or are they frozen from the point Terry changed it?

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#1281578 - Thu Jan 21 2021 12:57 PM Re: remove ELO ratings from Expert Game
Barbarini Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Sat Sep 04 2010
Posts: 722
Loc: Alberta Canada
Originally Posted By: nasty_liar
Originally Posted By: Barbarini
The Elo ratings are still there...just click the link on the Experts page.


Thanks Barbarini.
Are these still live or are they frozen from the point Terry changed it?


I've been checking periodically and they're still active.

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#1281579 - Thu Jan 21 2021 01:12 PM Re: remove ELO ratings from Expert Game
nasty_liar Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Sun Oct 05 2008
Posts: 507
Loc: Sheffield
Yorkshire UK
Originally Posted By: Barbarini
Originally Posted By: nasty_liar
Originally Posted By: Barbarini
The Elo ratings are still there...just click the link on the Experts page.


Thanks Barbarini.
Are these still live or are they frozen from the point Terry changed it?


I've been checking periodically and they're still active.


If they are still active then great but anyone below position 100 (like me) will not gain anything from that? It doesn’t tell me my ELO. I’m not concerned by this but 100 is a fairly low percentage of the Expert playing population of FT.

For Terry: If it’s going to be left live for those who care about it could that page display the players own rating too?

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#1281591 - Thu Jan 21 2021 04:27 PM Re: remove ELO ratings from Expert Game
Terry Offline
Head Honcho

Registered: Wed Dec 31 1969
Posts: 21449
Loc: USA
Rating link removed for Expert.

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#1281592 - Thu Jan 21 2021 04:55 PM Re: remove ELO ratings from Expert Game
WesleyCrusher Offline

Administrator

Registered: Thu Sep 04 2008
Posts: 7583
Loc: Germany
Can we have a personal high score on each topic? It would be a useful little stat for our weaker topics and for those who don't win often. It could probably be stored in the field that previously held the level of when a win was achieved or the number of opponents.


Edited by WesleyCrusher (Thu Jan 21 2021 04:57 PM)
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#1281624 - Fri Jan 22 2021 02:06 AM Re: remove ELO ratings from Expert Game
HabaneroJones Offline
Learning the ropes...

Registered: Wed Jan 02 2019
Posts: 4
Loc: South Australia

Agreed

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