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#1295106 - Mon Aug 30 2021 06:30 AM Team league reform
PHILVV Offline
Participant

Registered: Sat Aug 02 2014
Posts: 33
Loc: Belgium
Since this new competition two years ago, our team European players 9 times
in division A, the next month in division B.
This month 18th quiz makers guild (1st in league B last month)
19th the devil's advocates (2nd in league B last month)
20th European players (3rd in league B last month)
In league B this month%
1st the bee knees 4th in league B last month
2nd retired and loving it 20th, in league A last month
3rd the old farts 18th in league A last month
4th the conservatives 19th in league A last month
The three same teams go in league A and go down in league B next month
and go up in league A next month...
Conclusion these 6 or 7 teams who do the lift league A league b
Want another formula.
Maybe change the league only every six months.
Another idea but no more the lift league à one month, league B the next month

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#1295116 - Mon Aug 30 2021 08:46 AM Re: Team league reform
WesleyCrusher Online   content

Administrator

Registered: Thu Sep 04 2008
Posts: 7583
Loc: Germany
That would actually not make things better - you'd have teams who are at the end of League A and would quickly give up hope and barely play for several months.

If you're in 18th by mid month, you need to keep fighting. The Cat People were in 18th or 19th by the 15th of the month more than once, ultimately stayed in the division each time due to playing more.
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#1295126 - Mon Aug 30 2021 05:54 PM Re: Team league reform
agony Online   content

Administrator

Registered: Sat Mar 29 2003
Posts: 16595
Loc: Western Canada
My team, the QMGuild, does indeed go back and forth a lot between the two divisions. But we've managed to hold on to League A for two or three months at a time fairly often, depending on which games are chosen (we're not good at fast games). This is what makes it fun, IMO - if we were certain to always stay in the higher division, there would be less suspense. And I'll admit, the months we're in League B can be quite restful, it's nice to be able to miss a game now and then without fear of letting down the team.

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#1295127 - Mon Aug 30 2021 06:04 PM Re: Team league reform
Dagny1 Online   content
Mainstay

Registered: Sun Nov 14 2010
Posts: 534
Loc: Alabama USA
I like your thought about League B being restful, Agony. The Bee's Knees is another of those teams that tend to alternate back and forth between A and B. I've disliked it but couldn't think of anything better. I think I'll adopt your attitude!

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#1295132 - Tue Aug 31 2021 12:49 AM Re: Team league reform
WesleyCrusher Online   content

Administrator

Registered: Thu Sep 04 2008
Posts: 7583
Loc: Germany
Having "elevator teams" that change divisions often is, by the way, a common feature in European sporting leagues (upon which this system is modeled). It's also a sign that the rankings are meaningful - some teams just perform in the zone around 16th to 25th place overall where you'll see most movement.

However, such teams also tend to settle down one way or another as strengths shift. If you are in a position where you'd rather need just a bit more performance to either have a chance at promotion or to keep your division up, the best is really to

- motivate your players to play
- try and recruit a bit (one strong player makes a difference)
- be more aggressive with the best players you have.

The last possibly deserves a bit of explanation: If you have one or two strong players in a game, they may want to take risks. Play a few seconds faster than you're used to even at the risk of missing a question. If 1420 in Heroes is about the average for all teams, playing it safe to get 15 right in 90 seconds (1410) is going to be few points, likely only 1. At that point, your first goal is a good time: If you can finish in 55 and happen to have 15/15, you have a 1445 which is going to count for something. If you miss a question or even five, you're no worse off than the 1 from the 1410.

Also, if you already have an 8th (6th in league B) place of 1432 on the board, EVERY player, even one with no idea, needs to play faster than 68 seconds to have a chance to benefit the team. In such a case it's better to just randomly guess on questions you don't immediately know. If you need to guess 3 times but get a good time, you have a 1 in 64 chance of making 15 and a valuable score. If you take 90 seconds to ensure you get them right, your chance to count is 0 in 64...
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#1295139 - Tue Aug 31 2021 08:15 AM Re: Team league reform
Dagny1 Online   content
Mainstay

Registered: Sun Nov 14 2010
Posts: 534
Loc: Alabama USA
Love that term "elevator teams", Wes. Thanks for the tips, I'm passing them on to the team.

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#1295154 - Tue Aug 31 2021 12:34 PM Re: Team league reform
agony Online   content

Administrator

Registered: Sat Mar 29 2003
Posts: 16595
Loc: Western Canada
Those are good tips to bring the team’s performance up.

A less competitive team might just accept that bouncing between leagues is something that will happen, and it’s fine. There’s not really a problem with the game design.

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#1295160 - Tue Aug 31 2021 01:32 PM Re: Team league reform
WesleyCrusher Online   content

Administrator

Registered: Thu Sep 04 2008
Posts: 7583
Loc: Germany
Actually, it would point to a problem if there were very few or no "elevator team" experiences between the top and second tier after an initial phase of settling down.

If there were no cusp teams moving up and down several times before long term strength shifts cause them to settle on one or the other side, it would mean that either the playing strength in the top half of B division were significantly higher than the bottom half of A division or that teams would carry an advantage / disadvantage from recent promotions or relegations.

Also, the length of a season being a month means we get around 30 matchdays - this is the usual, proven length of a season in most major European sporting leagues. It provides for both enough movement and enough stability.

In fact, the most important reason we don't see the elevator phenomenon even more than we do in most European sports leagues (especially football/soccer) is that, when a team moves down, its star players will often attempt to leave for a top division team instead of having to play in a lower class - exactly a "relegation provides an undue disadvantage" effect. Thankfully most FT players are more loyal than that and would rather help their team rise back than quit for greener pastures!


Edited by WesleyCrusher (Tue Aug 31 2021 01:40 PM)
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#1295163 - Tue Aug 31 2021 02:06 PM Re: Team league reform
andymuenz Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Sep 14 2014
Posts: 356
Loc: Pennsylvania USA
Those are good suggestions, Wes, but teams should also realize that individuals may have different goals that they may not be aware of that may alter their strategy.

For example, when I was going after the 2020 is Hindsight badge I was aiming for the Efficiency Track where I needed a certain number of points across all of the games during a day. Some days I easily cleared the goal and could have risked accuracy for speed, but other days I need to make every correct answer count. Or today I have a daily challenge to get 15 correct on the Daily Quiz. Depending on the ease of the early questions I'll need to decide on the fly whether speed or accuracy is more important.

So my suggestion to the concerned teams is to suggest these strategies but realize people may need to adjust on any given day.

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#1295170 - Tue Aug 31 2021 03:00 PM Re: Team league reform
WesleyCrusher Online   content

Administrator

Registered: Thu Sep 04 2008
Posts: 7583
Loc: Germany
Obviously - it depends on the team. Some teams may ask of a player that they always play for the team (although those probably won't need the advice nor be the ones that have to think about being relegated...), but most will indeed let players prioritize personal goals over team ones. My stance with the Cats is that a personal goal always trumps a team one if the player wants, but I still share these strategies so that those who want to play for a team score know what to head for.

Sometimes you can actually also accommodate both if you structure your play accordingly: As an example, when WAI is a team game and I make an efficiency try on any given day, I also always play WAI last to see if I might need an easy mode game to secure my score - usually I can play for the team because I am well over 20202 and not in reach of a personal best either, occasionally I can't.


Edited by WesleyCrusher (Tue Aug 31 2021 03:01 PM)
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#1295279 - Thu Sep 02 2021 02:43 AM Re: Team league reform
gme24 Offline
Explorer

Registered: Wed Nov 13 2013
Posts: 98
Loc: Cyprus
It is very difficult to ask people to play more games or become faster all of a sudden!
Recruiting people is also difficult, pity we don't have transfer fees!
Then you could get the equivalent of a Ronaldo or an Mbape!

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