I hope that this message is received in the spirit in which it is offered; namely, in an effort to remove obstacles to community-building, and not merely to cavil or vent spleen.

We were assured that the institution of Gold Membership would not create a class of FTQers with less than full "citizenship" at the site, and that Gold Membership would rather represent solely (i) access to enhanced features, and (ii) avoidance of ads. People willing to pay have a right to better-than-minimum benefits; no problem.

(The appearance of gold stars by the names of Gold Members is NOT consistent with that assurance, but let me hasten to say that the gold stars aren't troubling to me; let us interpret them rather as a way for the site-owner(s) to seek well-deserved revenue than as creating an elite class by excluding those lacking gold stars.)

However, I have made an observation which IS quite troubling to me. The Members' Area page of the site has a link to new quizzes; it also has a link to new quizzes by Gold Members. That latter link is somewhat offensive to me. I believe that it substantially and materially belies the assurance that non-Gold Members would still be "first-class citizens" of FTQ.

Why do I say that? First, there is an implicit and unavoidable message that quizzes generated by Gold Members are somehow of higher or otherwise different quality than quizzes by non-Gold Members (else why have the filter in place at all?). Second, there is an invitation to those who have paid for Gold Membership to restrict their FTQ experience to interactions with the intellectual products only of fellow Gold Members, thus creating a semi-hermetic elite of Gold Members and a hoi palloi of non-Gold Members.

The existence of that link, to me, is not merely troubling; to me it is a statement of policy or at least of official sentiment which speaks much louder than can any fervent protestations to the contrary.

Based on the above-described analysis, and in the interest of community-building, I have some recommendations that I hereby offer for debate among the editors and users who read this forum.

(1) Remove the link to new quizzes by Gold Members.

(2) Tentatively: remove the gold stars but keep the link to the "Honor Roll" list of Gold Members in its prominent location. I don't feel at all strongly about this one.

(3) I think it would be a lot more conducive of community-building if Gold Membership or a close equivalent were available for non-financial community services. Obviously giving money for site-support helps to build the community, and recognition/benefits are appropriate. But I think Gold Membership tends to be a divisive force -- and is much cheapened -- if it is purely a reflection of economic contribution. Clearly, the volunteer editors should get all the benefits of Gold Membership, and more if possible, for their yeoman services to the community. IMHO the other sine qua non of community contribution is quizmaking: Gold or Goldlike Membership ought to be awarded on a merit basis to quizmakers outstanding either for quantity or for quality. (I.e., quizmakers making over, say, 100 quizzes should qualify for lifetime Gold or Goldlike Membership; quizmakers rated at, say, rating 8 or above should qualify for Gold or Goldlike Membership for as long as they maintain their high rating and contribute a minimum of, say, a quiz a month, or something like that.) Arguably, quiztakers taking X thousands of quizzes might qualify for Gold or Goldlike Membership, although I think quiztaking is less of a community-building activity than is quizmaking.

I hope my tone has not been offensive to anyone, and I look forward to seeing some good debate of these suggestions!

In reply to:

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Clearly, the volunteer editors should get all the benefits of Gold Membership

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They do.

Without the aid from Gold Members, the site wouldn’t be able to run as it does. It is not to say Gold Members’ quizzes are better, but rather as a thanks for their support, the Gold Members’ quizzes are placed within another link that is displayed not only in the Members Area, but on the main page as well.

There are links that reflect not only financial contribution. Links based on quiz-makers’ and takers’, Gold Member or not, can also be found. People who have made the top 1% quizzes are on a separate link, the people who have scored the most points are on a separate link, and the people whose quizzes were ranked the highest are on a separate link.

These links are not only for recognition, but also thanks for making the site what it is.

First of all... I'd like to say that I'm addressing this post as a FunTrivia Citizen and not as part of the site team. What I say here does not necessarily reflect the feelings of "the site".

(1) Remove the link to new quizzes by Gold Members.
This makes no difference to me. When I do check out the Newest Quizzes (and that's not often. I don't have as much time to play quizzes as I used to. My time is generally spent at school, doing homework, editing quizzes, and socializing OFF the net) I almost exclusively go to the full list because, realistically, I'm more likely to find quizzes that appeal to me if I look at the bigger list.

(2) Tentatively: remove the gold stars but keep the link to the "Honor Roll" list of Gold Members in its prominent location.
I think they're neat, and they make the quiz lists interesting to look at. I don't find them divisive... I don't feel any differently with a red star than I did before they were instituted. I don't think one quizmaker is "better" because s/he has a star, and it certainly doesn't influence which quizzes I'm likely to play.

(3) I think it would be a lot more conducive of community-building if Gold Membership or a close equivalent were available for non-financial community services.
That sounds like an awful lot of work for poor Terry! Quality quizzes are already rewarded with player ratings and with Editors' Choice. Rewarding quantity may (or may not, you never know...) flood the queues with second-rate quizzes by people who want to build up their numbers to "get stuff".

I'm not a Gold Member yet (although I will be as soon as I can get this darn payment system to work). However, anything that encourages people to take up gold membership, and helps this fine site to continue, is ok by me.

How about this? Only have the list of most recent quizzes by Gold Members IN the Gold Member member area. I, like Lady C. always look at the full list rather than the GM list, but if some GMs like that list, let's keep it for them (us) only. As for the gold stars, I think we deserve just that little pat on the back for our $20 contribution--after all, our money is going toward helping the site work well for everyone, not just for GMs. But maybe we should hear from more NON-GMs to find out how they're feeling about all of this. I don't want to act like a "Star-Belly Sneech" (see Dr. Seuss) and make others feel bad. --Robyn

I was going to stay out of it, but then... you know me.

1. I don't really care about this link. Is it hurting anyone? Is anyone mortally offended by it?

2. Why remove the gold stars? Is anyone offended by it? It's not creating 'second class' citizens - it's creating something above first class.

3. Making more quizzes should NOT be something which earns someone gold member status. Why? Some people take months to create a quiz that will be PERFECT while others take 5 minutes to make one which is PASSABLE.
As for merit, who decides? I can see a LOT of angry people because "Terry didn't chose me!" or "Why is THAT person an honorary gold member when I'M not?"

Has anyone who isn't a gold star member been TREATED differently than a gold star member? No. The only things which CHANGED for the non-gold star people was the fact that the pages are not updated every minute and the checkmarks - both of which Terry was going to discontinue ANYWAY for everyone because they took up too much of the server.

I haven't seen this mentioned, so I thought I'd add to LadyM's post with a little more.

Gold members are not treated differently in terms of editing the quizzes, either. They are held to the same high standards as any other quizmakers. Having a gold star by the name doesn't mean that the quiz will be put online any more quickly or that the editing will be any looser. At least, not in the categories that I edit. (However, I suspect that this statement would hold true in the other categories as well.)

Just thought I'd throw that in, in case anyone's wondering whether it makes a difference.

Same for my categories - I usually don't do more than a glance at the author's name in the edit screen - where it doesn't say who is a gold member and who is not.

Just a curious question -- is there any provision made for those folks who cannot afford gold membership?

In reply to:

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Just a curious question -- is there any provision made for those folks who cannot afford gold membership?

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Provision for what in particular?

Just jumping in with my two cents worth. Those who pay the $20 every 6 months are helping better the site for all. With today's prices, you can't get dinner and a movie for $20. That is only 3 or 4 hours of entertainment, compared with 6 months worth of entertainment at FT.
I personally see the little gold star by Gold Members' names the same way I see the little nameplate or name in a brick, etc, when you donate to the building of a library, sidewalk, etc. I applaud Terry for keeping the site going all this time, out of his own pocket, to bring joy and entertainment to so many of us. I think it was a wise move on his part to come up with the Gold Membership. Anyone willing to help keep the site going for everyone's benefit should get a few perks. I am not just saying that because I have a gold star by my name, but because I feel like anyone who contributes is not only helping themselves, but helping everyone.
I don't see a division of class or that the Gold Members are "teacher's pets" or "favorite kids", just that there are more options available for those willing to donate.

I think the best way to look at it, is the PBS type thing in the States. You might not be able to help during pledge week even though you'd like to, yet you don't feel particularly guilty for watching PBS programming during the rest of the year without commercials every five minutes, (barring of course the major corporate sponsorship stuff which is another argument).
And if you have managed to contribute, you get a bumper sticker for the first level that you'd put on your car and feel good about maybe, or else a key holder, or a dinner for two at a nice place that a local restaurant had donated to the public television organization.
I always managed to contribute when I could, and didn't worry about it when I couldn't.

The people who contribute quizzes here don't receive different treatment because of their membership, I assure you. THough...and this is my personal opinion only..but in general people who've joined as members have not contributed quizzes that I had any serious problems editing!

I don't think the Gold members are forming any clique somewhere in a rumpus room either...

If I were a Gold member I'd wear my bumper sticker proudly, or use my coffee mug at work without fear. And the little pluses in this case are well deserved.

By the way, I recently had a nice message from someone on my quiz, a European player and I saw a little star, I said, "that's neat..." She said, "this is a wonderful place and I want to give as much help as I can."
For me it's just a positive thing...

Now here's another analogy, if you saw classmates.com develop, they used to be free. For lonely wandering people like me it was wonderful to find people who remembered me from school...then, they began upping the ante, spamming me to death, and then closed off the possibility of even posting, or at one point reading posts on their boards!
I found this very very unsporting of them...and then one day I managed to read the last posts, for I don't know...what ever happened to Mr. So and So? I found the last post was by yours truly, one year prior! This means that their policy of heavy duty marketing, never letting up, and upping the ante, and making it very very restrictive, scared away many many potential clients. THat is not what we have here...no way.

Cris, I was just curious if anyone who could not afford to become a gold member was given any special consideration regarding cost. I would not find that necessary since this would be a "want" not a "need."

I am not a Gold Member, and I don't feel I'm being discriminated because of that. (The reason I have not become a Goldie is that where I live $20 is quite a sum as prices and wages are much lower here and I don't even have a credit card.) I think it is only fair that those who contribute to this site by paying these $20 have some extra features and a gold star next to their name. I'm not saying I don't miss those little ticks that showed which quizzes I've already taken, but as everyone says - Terry was going to remove them anyway. And hey - I'm just glad I can be a member of this great site without paying anything!

One other thing I noticed is that the gold thing benefits the forums and yet they're pretty independent of the whole QL system. And it doesn't make any difference here to anyone.
Pia well put.

How does the Gold Membership benefit the forums? I didn't start visiting the forums until a few weeks ago.

Essentially the forums wouldn't be here on their own Chippy, that's what I mean. The Quizzyland part is frequented by much larger numbers. As the site is several distinctive parts, they are all supported by the advertising revenue and the gold memberships. It's complementary.

i'm not sure what side of this question to take. what i would like to say is that i think nearly everyone is, if not missing xaosdog's original point, allowing themselves to drift away from it when they reply to it. as i see it, he certainly isn't wondering why gold members get extra privleges, so everyone who talks about that $40 per year that keeps the site running, and what GM'ers deserve or merit, etc etc, aren't addressing his points of debate. of course GM'ers pay and thus get privilege. what xaos is talking about is the list of GM-only new quizzes, which, as he says, seems to imply that they are somehow better or more important than non-GM new quizzes. i'm inclined to agree with him on some level, though i am utterly sure nothing close to that intent was meant in deciding to create such a GM-only filter. it is very hard to create something that's "seperate but equal" (Plessy v. Ferguson, and we know how THAT turned out). and a level that's higher than first class is, by definition, first class, creating a second class.

all this said, i have to say i don't feel like a second-class citizen. i feel like a productive and satisfied member of a web community. and i really am serious about bronze membership. keep working on that list of partial benefits culled from the gold list. i do want to support, but $40/year just seems so high....

Enisform, it is 20 dollars a year not 40. I pay that much extra per month just to edit and do the forums stuff on my internet subscription! Here in Europe it costs that much just to have a basic account with an internet provider despite how many different things they try to tell you. So I'm already spending that much per month just to do what I do here as a volunteer.

Funny because the features of the Gold membership are actually the most enjoyable for people who take and make a lot of quizzes, the list to me is like an option the manufacturer is trying out on a bike or a car one year, or...I know I know!
I used to be a member of my local zoo in Indiana and they have an express lane for you when you have your card!
It's obvious to anyone waiting in line that they are members of the zoo (what a great analogy for this place) and yet, if we don't require the extra goodies we don't worry about it.
Nor do I feel like a second class citizen if I see zoo members going to the head of the line.
We also had four special events per year to attend, parties at night in the zoo.
This meant that corporate sponsorship and fund raising helps the upkeep of some animals and enables schoolchildren to come to the visit free of charge, yet gives an incentive to individual members to subscribe.

I'd look upon it as a gadget that's kind of fun.

Heather - it's $20/6 mos.

Ooops, sorry, I kept on seeing the 20 figure, but forgot about the six months. But as I said, I still pay that much a month to participate here. My internet provider costs me that much if not more per month. So if I had to choose I might not be able to afford it..or else I'd go ahead and do it.
I don't think that as a quiz creator, I'd feel out of sorts at seeing the Gold Members on a list. I still maintain the zoo membership is closest.
I also know that the best quizzes will prevail no matter where they are listed.

Hi xaosdog,

The feedback that I have received so far via email and the forums from both gold members and non-gold members has been overwhelmingly positive.

I'll consider removing the "Newest Quizzes from Gold Members" not because it's offensive or divisive (I believe you're grasping there), but because its existence doesn't make a whole lot of sense in the first place. It was probably something I added just because I could.

Regards,
Terry

The 11 cents per day is definitely worth it just to not have pop-ups anymore! Not to mention being able to tell which quizzes I've played, since I've played over 2000 quizzes!

Jumping in here...

I recently got gold membership. I am not someone who can afford this, and even if I could I don't have a credit card. Consequently, my brother- who couldn't think of anything to get me- paid for my membership as a birthday present. Nice for me, it's the gift that goes on for six months. So, maybe those who can't afford it can ask for a membership as a gift- or you could always volunteer to be an editor, and get the gold benefits for free (with a little sweat equity ).

As someone who's been both gold and non, I feel that the "newest quizzes by gold members" should go- it is kind of elitist and seperatist. I feel that the stars should definately stay.

ShadowHippie