On Tuesday all the firefighters in the UK, except the 'retained' firefighters (part timers), are due to go on strike thus putting the nation in danger. If the strike goes ahead the armed forces will be taking over their duties using fire appliances built in 1953, these appliances are known as the Green Goddesses. Not only do they not have modern firefighting and rescue equipment but they also have a top speed of about 50mph compared to the modern fire engines' speed of about 70mph. Ladders are shorter than those fitted to the modern fire engine - in short lives will be lost. They are not equipped with tools to deal with car crashes, they won't be able to quickly cut a casualty out of a wrecked vehicle.

All I can say it that I am glad that I don't live in the UK at this time. What a wonderful opportunity it would be for the terrorists to strike.

How are you in the UK feeling about the possible strike, do you support it?

I watched Trevor MacDonald last night, a woman told of the last time they went on strike and the Green Goddesses took over, in 1977, she lost her husband and two grandchildren because of the slow response and lack of equipment, and that was 25 years ago.

For those who don't know the background, the reason for the strike - they want a 40% pay increase.

Read the story on the BBC website

The differences between a Green Goddess and a modern fire engine

Most people would support their claim for a well deserved pay rise but 40% is asking too much in one go.

We are all at risk of fire every day of our lives, but by acting on the
'MAKE YOUR PLAN - GET OUT ALIVE' advice issued by the fire brigade a little more time can be bought in an emergency.

Don't leave it until it's too late. Everyone in the household should know their safest escape route from any room in the house. Test it out during daylight and again in darkness.

Make your plan today, if you haven't already.

Very sensible advice regardless of where you live, UK or not. I went through fire practice with my children both in our old home and in this one as soon as they were old enough to understand. I have to say that our old home would have been a bit of a nightmare as the children were on one side of the property and my son had bars at his window as it was at street level and opened out onto the road. This one is better as both my room and my son's room have windows opening up onto a flat roof at the front of the house, my daughter has a piece of flat roof to the rear of the house but her bedroom door is only about a foot or two from my son's so unless the fire was on the landing she could get into his room, and therefore mine and comparative safety.

40% would put our firefighters on thirty thousand pounds a year.
I don't for one moment think this is too much. They don't only deal with fires but with many other serious accidents that occur.
They are accused of moonlighting but they do it to earn more money so obviously their salaries are not sufficient. I think firemen or women should be paid in line with our police force.
Give them a decent wage . They risk their lives when the heat is on.
If we had a terrorist attack while the strike was in force do you really think our firefighters would do nothing?I don't think so. They would be the first on scene strike or no strike.
At the same time can I put in a word for the unpaid,volunteer men and women who come to the aid of those in trouble at sea,namely- The men and women who man our Lifeboats.

I find it sad that firefighters the world over are underpaid and underappreciated. It amazes me how they willingly put their lives on the line day in and day out.

My roommate is an EMT in Virginia... She was saying that there are groups of high school students who 'help out' (they're supposed to be learning how to be firefighters, but the captains don't know what to do with them so they just basically clean) - these high schoolers get about $9 an hour. What do the regular, full time, firefighters with experience and training get? A dollar or two LESS than that.

I cannot believe that people who save lives day after day make less than I make working as a staff assistant on campus. I cannot believe that high schoolers without any training make more than them.

And we seem to focus on only teachers being underpaid...Maybe if we diverted some money from those in Congress who vote themselves pay raises all the time we could pay the people who save our lives...

You just summed up the whole problem right there ladym! If the people in Congress and other branches of the government weren't getting raises basically every year, there would be far more tax dollars to go to those who have higher risk jobs and should get paid more for what they do!

It makes no sense to me why the untrained high school kids would be making more, but that seems to happen in alot of cases. There is something WRONG with this country, that we let it happen that way.

For congress read our 'Socialist Government' here in the U K.
Nye Bevan, Clement Atlee and the late lamented John Smiith and Donald Dewar must be turning in their graves at the antics of our present lot.
If my life is ever in danger from fire I know that there is a committed team ready and waiting. Give them a decent wage.
There are Yuppies in the city earning ten times what our firefighters (and other Public Sector workers earn)
Is it any wonder that the British Public Sector is in chaos(as usual)
It is time to get our priorities right and reward the people who really matter and make a difference!

Regret to inform you Labour Party is no longer "Socialist" they took that bit of the party constitution and gave up any pretence at internal democracy a few years ago after little Tony's palace coup. Every time I see little Tony now I feel i'm sitting in a beer garden with Sally Bowles listening to the a nice young man in brown singing about the sun rising. I deviate and perhaps that is a little extreme.

The Firefighters do not generate income therefore in the eyes of HMG, Yuppies, who generate lots of income are more valuable. This is the way HMG has worked since Margaret the Greedy took office. Large numbers of people are not going to get really upset about the strikes unless there is a major accident something like Aberfan or Kings-X. If a few people die so be it, HMG can use that to its advantage, blame it on the strikers. Equate 'outrageous' pay demand with people killed. If there is enough public oprobrium(sp. ?) and it can be directed against the strikers they will be forced to go back to work. HMG won't need to 'starve' them back.

Do the Firefighters deserve a 40% rise to £30k? Yes of course they do.

Will they get it? Not a chance in hell.

Sorry I've had a bit of a rant here. Practical Firefighters strike suggestions. 1) Give a few bucks to the strike fund, 2) Do not go anywhere near the underground or chunnel for the duration, 3) Check the batteries in your smoke alarms. 4) Drive extra carefully.

I agree with most of what you say Tielhard, but:

In reply to:

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Do not go anywhere near the underground

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That's gonna be a bit hard for anyone who lives and works in London, but I do take your point.

When I think of how much the tubedrivers get paid for what is (in comparison) hardly taxing or dangerous then it makes me really mad.

There's no doubt at all in my mind that the firefighters richly deserve every single penny they've asked for and more. Unfortunately even they are realistic enough to know that the money isn't the only issue as far as the goverment is concerned. The huge stumbling block is the 40%, which is why the firefighters have had to be prepared to negotiate.

They've aired their grievances over pay year in and year out to no avail, and only now have they made a firm stand on this issue. If they'd been given a decent wage all along then they wouldn't need to ask for such a large percentage for a pay rise now.

Supporters all over the country will back them over this, and I don't think that mood would change even in an all out strike, but sadly I still can't see them getting the rise they need.

The tube isn't quite as all pervasive as you suggest, you could;

get a bus (or several),
do a Tebbit (cycle),
car share,
Shank's pony is an option,
Taxis (if you have a five figure salary),
Saddle up a Conservative MP and thrash him along,
Hire a fire engine (no one else will want it for the duration).

OK, I admit it one of the main reasons I left London was the underground, I hate it, one armpit too many!

Tielhard

I also fully support the fire service in whatever action they feel compelled to take. It's disgraceful that such a vital service should be so badly underpaid and terrible as it seems for them to go on strike I don't really see that they have much choice. Does this government of ours really listen to anyone?

I notice the surgeons have also decided to reject the government's latest pay offer (contract rewrite) as well as the Fire Fighters. I'm not looking forward to when the government starts providing emergency cover for them using squaddies, "Fix .... Bayonets!"

I too am totally disillusioned by our so called Labour Government as you might have guessed by reading between the lines of my posts. Let's face it you don't have to read between the lines!
You are so right about the non-productive theory.
Many years ago the teachers went on strike . They were on a losing ticket from the beginning. They were non-productive -the economy didn''t depend on them-and they gave parents a fortnight's notice of strike action.
That is what the firefighters are doing-giving notice and the sad thing is this government doesn't care or listen!

With todays announcement that the Security Teams and Fire Fighters at the UK Airports now threatening Strikes, which if they do walk out will be arround the Christmas Holiday period, this will show wether the Government follow your thinking Teallach. If these people walk out it will close all airports no flights out and no flights in - think of the trade implications of that (and also think of the millions of people who will be affected by such actions.
I do believe Tony Blairs Government (and you'll note I didn't say Socialist or Labour) only have eyes on the balance book, they don't seem to worry or bother about the people of the country, you only have to look at the industries that Britain became Great from - they are all disappearing. I'm a skilled engineer - if I was made redundant tomorrow I would struggle to get a job in my trade - I'd be offered all sorts of work (IE packing foodstuffs, labelling envelopes at the minimum wage and this Government would force me to take one of the jobs or re-train (I've only 10 years to retirement) It took me well over 10 years training to do my job (5 years apprentice and a lifetime to learn the skills and "tricks of the trade") I taught my son to use a computer (not play games but to use it properly) - he's now a Computer Technician and there are plenty of jobvs for him - just sign this 6 month contract to do the project then your back out there looking for work.
I honestly can't see any future for the UK - even the call-centres (One of the rapidly growing "Industries" based on minimum wage employees are now moving abroad BECAUSE IT'S CHEAPER LABOUR. I can phone my bank and be answered in India by someone pretending to be in the UK.
Every single investment that this government has announced has resulted in more levels of middle management and Inspectors to check on what they are doing. The re-runs of the TV programme "Yes Minister" become funnier and more cynical each time you watch them as the following day there is a Minister saying the exact words of the scripts.

I don't think the airside fire crews are FBU. In any case I suspect that the RAF has sufficient tenders and crews to cover the airports if they limit military flying.

I would really, really like to disagree with some thing, anything in the rest of your post but unfortunately I think it is all true!

Tielhard

Thank you Tielhard - The Emergency Crews at the airports aren't FBU this is a seperate dispute about the extra work they have to carry out after the introduction of extra anti-terrorist activities.

The first of the strikes begins tomorrow.

Keep safe all you in the UK.

While in the back of my mind I'm saying Emergency Forces should not be allowed to Strike - the front of my mind is saying How can the "Management" have expected the Union to do anything else with such a derisory offer?



Echoing your thoughts Sue - lets hope no-one loses their lives over this.

The politicos have already started smearing the Firefighters. There was more odure flying about on Radio 4 this morning than you get when you spring clean a stable. I notice little Tony and HMG have long ago ceased to pretend they are neutral observers and have gone back to union bashing. For those of you who are wondering, nothing has stuck to little Tony yet the man (creature) has a teflon suit.

I'll stop there or this will become a rant.

Regards,

Tielhard

The strike has been in force for just over 14 hours so far and there have been three deaths, all old age pensioners. What is more worrying, and could be a terrorist aspect (I don't mean 'organised', more opportunist sympathisers), is the huge increase in arson attacks in the form of cars and rubbish bins set on fire. There has also been a massive increase in hoax emergency calls, in one town alone out of about 250 calls only 20 were genuine. There is flooding to add to the misery, normally the firefighterrs would pump out but the armed forces don't have the time and equipment.

This is all so horribly sad. It is awful that so many want to cause mischief when the country should be banding together. The only good thing to come out of it would be that all these problems will cause the powers that be to see how valuable the firefighters are.

The first of the fatalities was in Powys, Wales where striking firefighters left the picket lines to help RAF personnel when they heard a woman was trapped. Sadly they could not save her. Read the story here

A warehouse containing fireworks has caught fire in Manchester where military crews in Green Goddesses are trying to tackle the blaze. It has been reported that striking firefighters left their picket line to assist people from the building.

Thankfully no fatalities have been reported so far, but this is going to be a huge test for the less well trained back up crews to cope with.