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#145384 - Fri Dec 13 2002 05:22 AM Enlargement of the European Union
Beatka Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: Tue Oct 08 2002
Posts: 455
Loc: Luxembourg
Today, at the European Council summit in the Danish capital Copenhagen, a landmark decision on the enlargement of the European Union is expected to be made. Ten countries, including Poland, will receive an official offer to join in 2004. If you want to know more about the EU, take my quizzes on this subject.

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#145385 - Fri Dec 13 2002 10:27 AM Re: Enlargement of the European Union
thejazzkickazz Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Fri Apr 14 2000
Posts: 3232
Loc: Utah USA
Beatka, what is your opinion on this subject? Are you pleased that Poland will be joining the EU? What are the possibilities of Poland adopting the Euro?

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#145386 - Sat Dec 14 2002 01:56 AM Re: Enlargement of the European Union
Beatka Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: Tue Oct 08 2002
Posts: 455
Loc: Luxembourg
Of course I am pleased!! As for the Euro, every new member state has to wait at least 2 years before it can adopt the Euro (it is a formal requirement). So we are expecting to join the Euro zone only around 2006-2007.

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#145387 - Sat Dec 14 2002 06:58 AM Re: Enlargement of the European Union
Coolupway Offline
Prolific

Registered: Mon Aug 26 2002
Posts: 1131
I am against this, because it fear it may mean that pierogies will have to be referred to as "Eurodumplings"; kielbasa as "Eurosausage" and bigos as "Euromeatwithsauerkraut."
Will the saintly Maria Sklodowska Curie become just another faceless "European"??? Will I lose my Galician roots and become just a descendant of generic "Euro-people"?
Just kidding. I think it's great.

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#145388 - Sat Dec 14 2002 08:08 AM Re: Enlargement of the European Union
sue943 Offline
Administrator

Registered: Sun Dec 19 1999
Posts: 38005
Loc: Jersey
Channel Islands    
I am afraid that we (in Jersey) will have another problem when this happens. We are not members of the EU but certain things apply due to our connections with the UK, for immigration purposes we are considered to be just part of the British Isles therefore people who have the right of free movement about the EU have the same right to live here. We used to have quite a lot of seasonal workers from Portugal (before they joined the EU), they came on work permits and left in the winter months then Portugal joined the EU and they not only stayed all year but brought over their families..... this has caused huge social problems as they have almost become an underclass due to the nature of the work they do and the lower wages. We have very strict housing laws which mean they have to occupy totally unsuitable accommodation which has resulted in many of their children (now teenages) getting into trouble.... it is not fair on them to be couped up in one or two rooms with no gardens, no privacy etc. The laws cannot be changed, we are a very small island, just 45 square miles, so there is a limit to how many people can live here. Now, in the past couple of years, they have begun to bring in Polish people on work permits, once Poland joins the EU it is quite likely that many more will come to us simply because it has become familiar to some and they will know people who have settled here. The Poles we have here doing seasonal work are quite a different class of person than most of the Portugese workers, the Portugese tended to be the less educated ones who work on farms and in hotels as they are not educated enough to do other work, not so the Poles, they tend to have university degrees and are doing the menial work in order to increase their already excellent English skills.

It concerns me that we, as a small island, could be flooded with people seeking non-existant accommodation. On a daily basis I see such dreadful cases of people living in substandard accommodation, desperate perhaps because they are being evicted for having a baby because this would make the property overcrowded according to the law. I just hope that when Poland and any other countries join the EU that people won't just use the free movement without proper research.

Incidently, true Jersey people, those without a grandparent born in the EU, have a stamp in their passports which states that they do NOT have the right to live and work in other EU countries, only in the UK. Some consider that not to be fair, it doesn't affect me or my children but I tend to agree that if people are permitted to move here to work that the locals ought to have the same rights.
_________________________
Many a child has been spoiled because you can't spank a Grandma!

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#145389 - Sat Dec 14 2002 01:20 PM Re: Enlargement of the European Union
Beatka Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: Tue Oct 08 2002
Posts: 455
Loc: Luxembourg
I think that one of the main purposes of the European integration is to eliminate the necessity or the need for people to emigrate abroad in search of better life. I believe it will be the case as soon as the standard of living between the current Member States of the European Union and the acceding countries is equalized.

But it is great to have the possibility to move freely within the EU anyway. I remember very complicated visa formalities I had to go through when I was going to Italy for five-month studies six years ago and when I was leaving for Brussels for a five-month traineeship in the European Commission this year. And I am happy that the freedom of movement of persons within the EU will do away with it.

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#145390 - Sun Dec 15 2002 03:21 PM Re: Enlargement of the European Union
flem-ish Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: Thu Oct 11 2001
Posts: 319
Loc: Belgium
Well "my area in Belgium" was liberated by Polish troops in 1944 and I consider it only reasonable that Poles can be part of the same community as we. As I am actively involved in exchange programmes between Flemish and Polish schools, I have noticed that Poles do not enter "Europe" uncritically and want to know what the consequences will be for e.g. Polish agriculture etc. During the past year Flemish students went to Poland to make the acquaintance of Polish traditions. Next year the Poles are coming here. My impression is that the best we can do is to show them that being 'in Europe' is not all "beer and skittles". What I do hope for is that the mental barriers there still are between Eastern and Western Europe can be gradually reduced. And in my view that requires a lot of mutual friendly but not uncritical contact. The Europe of big business is not "my" Europe. Trying to understand each other's history and traditions is a prerequiste to a lasting "alliance".
If you ask me : "enlargement" of the European Union is not everything; respect for each other's traditions, individual styles must be preserved. Some "modification" of the European union in the sense of a greater concern for non-economic aspects is a necessary antidote for the "money-fication" of our societies.

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#145391 - Sun Dec 15 2002 10:49 PM Re: Enlargement of the European Union
MsBatt Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Sun Dec 16 2001
Posts: 883
Loc: Alabama USA
First off, let me say thay I'm totally ignorant of conditions in the EU, or anywhere in Europe for that matter. But as an citizen of the US, I think making it possible for people from all countries to move freely about on the Euasian continent sounds good to me. I remember how astounded I was when I first realized that Europe was about the same size as the US, but instead of being one country where everyone could move about freely it was a LOT of different countries and each required a passport and entrance/exit visas. I routinely travel between three states here, which geographically would be equalivent of traveling between England, France, and Germany!
_________________________
Some days are easy, like licking frosting off a spoon: today was like stapling Jell-o to a brick.

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#145392 - Mon Dec 16 2002 07:44 AM Re: Enlargement of the European Union
Bruyere Offline
Star Poster

Registered: Sat Feb 10 2001
Posts: 18899
Loc: California USA
As an American with residency in the European Union, I have to say that it used to be a hassle to travel around . But the worst was when one of my jobs was doing the extensive paperwork for people from all over the world...I got a quick education on the Schenken agreement countries, and who needed a visa for the UK though they had student visas in France...and who needed a visa if their train was crossing through Switzerland (looking rather lonely there right smack in the middle our Helvetian friends, aren't they?) and then, the ones visiting Eastern European countries.
I also learned about the rapidly evolving European Union regulations as they changed their minds basically every day...!
It was quite unnerving.
As I had an Estonian, a few Russians, an Azerbadjani woman, a few Romanians, many Turks, and a Polish woman to take care of, well I learned how to do the papers for all of them...quite a job.
But then, they couldn't travel back and forth as well with a French student visa, unless their home country was in the union.
It will be interesting to see what happens in the immigration scene here in France, with the events of the past years still in our minds.

There are many things that might very well change, in France we desperately need workers for the fields and crops during the seasons, or for the seafood industry in some regions etc...and the Romanians and others were recruited, now they could receive better treatment and conditions.
That is a definite plus.

However, I'm sure there will be ups and downs in the process.

_________________________
I was born under a wandering star.

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#145393 - Tue Dec 17 2002 02:59 AM Re: Enlargement of the European Union
Beatka Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: Tue Oct 08 2002
Posts: 455
Loc: Luxembourg
Of course citizens of the candidate countries (now called acceding countries) have been able to travel freely around the EU within the time limit of 3 months per year on the so called Schengen visa so far, without the right to take up an employment though. From now on (or rather as of the day of accession) it will change and there will be no more obstacles to free movement of persons in the EU, with some exceptions (certain EU countries have decided to close their labour market for citizens of new member states in fear of a cheap labour invasion, which is not justified in my opinion).

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#145394 - Tue Dec 17 2002 09:00 AM Re: Enlargement of the European Union
Beatka Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: Tue Oct 08 2002
Posts: 455
Loc: Luxembourg
Here is a link to the European Union subcategory on the Funtrivia European Union as well as a link to the so- called Europa site Europa where you can find a comprehensive info about the EU. Enjoy!!

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