I heard on the radio that in 1963 the MVP in the NFL, the AFL, baseball's NL and baseball's AL all wore the same number 32. Is this true? I believe the players were Jim Brown, Cookie Lavagetto, Sandy Koufax, and Elston Howard. I saw somewhere that Lavagetto did not win it in 1963. Help.

justawful,

I would tend to agree with you, there seems to be something wrong here.

Until now all I have done is look at Jim Brown and in particular at this site.
http://204.202.129.230/classic/biography/s/Brown_Jim.html

It seams reasonably clear that Jim Brown played in the NFL for the Cleveland Browns throughout his career and certainly in 1963.

Also, he won two MVP's but these were in 1958 and 1965.

I think your radio programme might have dropped a bit of a "clanger"???????

Purely as an aside, on a holiday to Canada a few years ago I flew down from Toronto to Cleveland for the day to visit what was then the new Rock and Roll Museum and went on to "the ball game" right next door and saw "The Browns" play The New England Patriots. I think I am right in saying that that was The Browns last season in Cleveland??

Kindest Regards

Bannockburn

justawful,

Certainly something wrong.

The NFL's MVP for 1963 was Y. A. Tittle of the New York Giants. Please See:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/news/2000/01/05/warner_mvp_ap/

Kindest Regards

Bannockburn

justawful,

Y. A. Tittle's #14 is a retired number at the New York Giants.

Looks as though the names are probably correct and that the year could well be wrong.

1965 is a possibility and if nobody comes up with the answer in the meantime will try and have a look to-morrow.

Kindest Regards

Bannockburn

justawful,

Couldn't resist another look before bed.

Of all things, look what I have found -- an old entry from FunTrivia
http://www.funtrivia.com/cgi-bin/details.cgi?Entry=8199

The whole of this question has been looked into before with serious reservations as you will see.

Infoplease would seem to say that Jim Brown did win the NFL MVP in 1963, but I very much doubt that.

Also I think there are some "Cookie's" getting mixed up???

Bannockburn

I sure am coming up with some conflicting info here myself BB. I have found a site that says Jim Brown was the MVP in 1963 and Lavagetto was the MVP in 1964. Other sites (the ones you mention) say Jim Brown was MVP in 1957 and 1965 and make no mention of Lavagetto. The baseball sites are more organized and seem to agree on Koufax and Howard, although I can't verify their jersey numbers. The program on which I heard this trivia "fact" is a nationally syndicated weekly sports talk show. I always assumed they did their research well. Thanks for your efforts so far and lets keep in touch to get the true facts.

Sandy Koufax did wear #32 as did Elston Howard
http://www.ruz.com/baseball/retired.html

[ 07-12-2001: Message edited by: makebeleaffan ]

Apparently the NFL cooses the MVP in a different way. The MVPs are elected by the Associated Press and other news organizations, therefore there could be different MVPs depending on what news organization you trust in. Does this make sense?
If so, then I guess it is possible that Jim Brown was MVP in 1963 according to some news organization, and I guess another #32 wearing person could have been MVP in the AFL that year.

I guess we could call this...Making the facts fit the question.

justawful,

I was waiting to get my facts as near 100% correct before posting another reply.

Night before last I came across a site that explained in detail the background to the NfL's MVP award, which is in fact not offcially recognised. In 1963 there were in fact 3 awards in situ, one of which was won by Jim Brown ( NO 32 ), the other two by Y. A. Tittle who is therefore generally regarded as the MVP for that year.

Will try to track it down again later and post the URL.

Bannockburn

justawful,

Here is the site that clarifies the whole situation???????
http://www.infoplease.com/ipsa/A0104497.html

Jim Brown ( wearing # 32 ) can tenuously be correct for 1963.

makebeleaffan is as always perfectly correct for Sandy Koufax and Elston Howard.

That therefore is 3 of the 4 accounted for.

We are looking for 2 football players and two baseball players -- are we not??

Assuming that is correct, then Cookie Lavagetto is a non starter as it is a football player in the AFL that we are left to find and not a baseball player.

As mentioned in one of my previous posts I think the "Cookie's" have got mixed up and in fact we are more than likely to be looking at Cookie Gilchrist.

Again a night or two ago I found a site listing the MVP's for the NFL and AFL and I will try to find it again, but the player for the AFL 1963, who's name I can't remember, was not Cookie Gilchrist although he did win it in 1962.

All going well will get back to you.

Bannockburn

justawful,

To me there is little doubt that Lance Alworth ( Allworth ) was the 1963 AFL MVP.

Please see this site and elsewhere:
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/7562/mvp_nfl.html

A quick search on Google will easily reveal that Lance Allworth was #19 even to the detail of 1963, and "tops" are sold to this day in recognition of that fact, although I haven't as yet found whether or not it is a retired number for the San Diego Chargers. It would not surprise me that it is.

My conclusion, rightly or wrongly, is that the previous research detailed in the earlier FunTrivia URL is as accurate as you will find and that you could with a relatively high degree of confidence question your radio station on the lines that 3 of the 4 are correct and that Cookie Lavagetto is definitely wrong.

Kindest Regards

Bannockburn

Bannockburn,
I have to agree, the info reported on the radio show was incorrect. In the face of all this evidence I also conclude that in 1963 the 4 MVPs did not all wear the same number 32. In fact I would go so far as to say that only the baseball playing MVPs wore it (Thanks to Makebeleaffan's research).
Well done in helping to resolve this. I'm sure since this "fact" went out to the entire U.S. I will often hear this brought up in barrooms as being true. Armed with the evidence I think I can safely contradict it.
Thanks again to you and also Makebeleaffan.
Stay in touch.
Kindest Regards,
Jim

This "Pearl" of trivia has been circulated for many years and the "accepted" answer is Jim Brown, Elston Howard, Sandy Koufax and Cookie Gilchrist. Whether or not these are the correct answers has never been proven to my knowledge.....

Cookie Gilchrist wore # 34 so there's the proof.
http://www.geocities.com/bflobuzrd_2000/cookie.html