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#166110 - Fri Apr 04 2003 03:09 PM Re: Is Yiddish a dying language?
flem-ish Offline
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More of the same at www.awordinyoureye.com/


Edited by flem-ish (Fri Apr 04 2003 05:01 PM)

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#166111 - Fri Apr 04 2003 03:16 PM Re: Is Yiddish a dying language?
snm Offline
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My grandfather once convinced me to read a book of jokes he has where all the punchlines are in Yiddish, then became most distressed when I didn't laugh a single time. I didn't find the jokes funny after he explained them either- wrong generation I guess.
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#166112 - Wed Apr 16 2003 04:12 PM Re: Is Yiddish a dying language?
snm Offline
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I was just talking to my little sister, and she said "oy got!" (Yiddish for "oh God").
I said "Oy got? You're starting to talk like Bobba!"
She replied: "Oy! I don't want to speak Afrikaans!"
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#166113 - Thu Apr 17 2003 04:50 AM Re: Is Yiddish a dying language?
chelseabelle Offline
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Registered: Thu Oct 07 1999
Posts: 10282
Loc: New York USA
I am particularly fond of Yiddish curses, such as:

"May you grow like an onion with your head in the ground"

although they do sound better in Yiddish than English.

I am really sorry that I have forgotten most of the Yiddish I learned from listening to my grandmother. It really is a very evocative language--there are things you can say in Yiddish that you just can't capture in English. The word "shmooze", for instance, really says more than you can say with a single English word.

Found this Web page which is interesting:

Quote:

"Linguistically, Yiddish is technically classified as Judeo-German, with bits of Old French and Old Italian. There are three types of Yiddish: Lithuanian, Polish, and Ukranian. Lithuanian Yiddish predominates in the U.S.

When Jews fled the pogroms (government-sponsored riots and persecutions) of Europe to the U.S. beginning in the late 1800s, they brought Yiddish with them. The language adapted with borrowed English words, which were given new case, mood, and inflection. Thoughts were rearranged to meet traditional Yiddish syntax ("Him you call a genius?"), logic was rearranged ("I didn't go and I didn't not go") and English words and names were cheerfully adapted (Abraham Lincohen, Judge Vashington).

The borrowing was two-way: American English adapted phrases from Yiddish. Nosh, shmo, schmuck, gonif, hoohah, yenta, -nik (as in beatnik), and several hundred others. Phrases such as "get lost," "you should live so long," "my son, the doctor," "alright already," "excuse the expression," "on him it looks good," "it shouldn't happen to a dog" . . . the list goes on.

Rosten says words and phrases aren't the main contribution of Yiddish to English, but linguistic devices (we're getting to your question, be patient).

Rosten cites the following wonderful array of insult and innuendo, adapted into English from Yiddish. The problem is whether to attend a concert being given by a niece. The same sentence is put through the following paces, depending on emphasis:


I should buy two tickets for her concert?--meaning:, "After what she did to me?"

I should buy two tickets for her concert?--meaning: "What, you're giving me a lesson in ethics?"

I should buy two tickets for her concert?--meaning: I wouldn't go even if she were giving out free passes!

I should buy two tickets for her concert?--meaning: I'm having enough trouble deciding whether it's worth one.

I should buy two tickets for her concert?--She should be giving out free passes, or the hall will be empty.

I should buy two tickets for her concert?--Did she buy tickets to our daughter's recital?

I should buy two tickets for her concert?--You mean, they call what she does a "concert"?


In addition, Rosten cites the following examples of linguistic devices in English, that are Yiddish in origin, to "convey nuances of affection, compassion, displeasure, emphasis, disbelief, skepticism, ridicule, sarcasm, and scorn."

Mordant syntax: "Smart, he isn't."

Sarcasm through innocuous diction: "He only tried to shoot himself."

Scorn through reversed word order: "Already you're discouraged?"

Contempt through affirmation: "My partner, he wants to be."

Fearful curses sanctioned by nominal cancellation: "May all your teeth fall out except one, so that you can have a toothache, God forbid."

Derisive dismissal disguised an innocent interrogation: "I should pay him for such devoted service?"

And (finally, we get to it!):

Blithe dismissal via repetition with an sh- play-on-the-first-sound: "The mayor? Mayor, Shmayor, it's his wife who runs the town!"
The use of sh- or shm- isn't merely dismissal-- it's a pooh-poohing with blatant mockery.

"The doctor says he has a serious virus? Virus, shmirus, as long as he's healthy."
"Who said that? Fred? Fred, Shmed, what does he know?"
"The psychiatrist says he has an Oedipus complex. Oedipus, Shmoedipus, so long as he loves his mother."
As to the origin of the sh- sound for this derision, we can only speculate. There are a number of Yiddish words of aspersion that start with sh- or shm-: shmo (a jerk) , shlemiel (the person who always spills the soup), shlmazel (the person on whom the soup gets spilled by the shlemiel), shnook (a meek patsy), schnorrer (beggar, panhandler, cheapskate, chiseler, bum), shloomp (a drip), schmuck (dick-head, son-of-a-bitch), et al. Perhaps that's the way it began.

While we're on the subject of Yiddish, another expression whose origin people wonder about is, "What am I, chopped liver?"

We consulted an excellent website about all things Jewish, Ask the Rabbi (http://www.ohr.org.il/web/index/askfull.htm).
According to this site, the phrase was coined in America. Chopped liver is a side dish and never a main course, so the phrase is used to express hurt and amazement when someone feels overlooked, i.e., treated as a "side dish."



http://straightdope.com/mailbag/

snm, most of the Israelis I've known can't understand Yiddish at all. Generally when I've said something in Yiddish I tend to get a blank look.

Quote:

"Wasn't there a famous song "Bei mir bist du sheyn" ??"

I believe a version of this song became a big popular hit in the 1940's when it was recorded by The Andrews Sisters--it's probably one of the only Yiddish crossover songs.


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#166114 - Thu Apr 17 2003 08:18 AM Re: Is Yiddish a dying language?
snm Offline
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Registered: Thu Jan 30 2003
Posts: 901
Loc: Israel
Quote:

snm, most of the Israelis I've known can't understand Yiddish at all. Generally when I've said something in Yiddish I tend to get a blank look.





Cb, most Israelis can't speak a word of Yiddish and find it even less useful than the average English speaker finds Latin (if we're looking for a fancy phrase we're far more likely to use one in Latin or Aramaic). A lot of Yiddish words have found their way into modern Hebrew, but in most cases we're not really aware of the Yiddish origins. Even when we are aware of a word or phrase existing in Yiddish, unless it's a word found in the bible most of us don't know whether it's a Hebrew word adopted by Yiddish, or a Yiddish word adopted by Hebrew. In any case, in many cases the pronunciation of the word has changed so much in the transition from Yiddish to Hebrew that it will be almost unrecognisable to the average Hebrew speaker.
Hope that explains the blank looks!
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