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#17137 - Wed Dec 19 2001 12:29 AM Calling all Brits
makebeleaffan Offline
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Registered: Fri Feb 18 2000
Posts: 1764
Loc: Victoria BC Canada      
I posted a quiz on another website about British place names and their pronunciations. One place name in particular was pronounced Yool. The answer given was Zwill. Is there any place in Great Britain called Zwill. (particularly on one of the channel islands , Sue?) I'm having a hard time locating it on the net. Thanks!
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#17138 - Tue Dec 18 2001 03:34 PM Re: Calling all Brits
flem-ish Offline
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Registered: Thu Oct 11 2001
Posts: 319
Loc: Belgium
BBC Pronouncing Dictionary of British Names by G.E. Pointon, O.U.P., 1990, does not mention any Zwill in its Channel Islands Appendix. But in its general list it mentions a place called Yuille and that name is pronounced as "yoo-il".

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#17139 - Tue Dec 18 2001 05:30 PM Re: Calling all Brits
TabbyTom Offline
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Registered: Wed Oct 17 2001
Posts: 8479
Loc: Hastings Sussex
England UK
My edition of the "BBC Pronouncing Dictionary of British Proper Names" is rather older then Flem's: it was published in 1983.

It doesn't give any place-name that fits mb's query. But it lists a family name (i.e. what we Brits usually call a surname) which is spelled ZUILL and pronouned Yool.

The dictionary gives no indication of where this name comes from, and I can't trace any details in any other reference work. I'd never heard of it until now.

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#17140 - Wed Dec 19 2001 10:57 AM Re: Calling all Brits
spanishliz Offline
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Registered: Thu Dec 13 2001
Posts: 23115
Loc: Ontario Canada
A quick web search has convinced me that the surname Zuill is Scottish, a sept of the clan Buchanan. It seems to be a variant spelling of Yule or Yuill, also septs of the same clan.
My 'Scottish Surnames' Collins Pocket Reference book lists no Z names at all, but given the 'Yool' pronunciation and the clan association of Yuill/Zuill we can perhaps accept the definition given for Yule/Yuill. 'Scottish Surnames' states that Yuill was originally used as a forename for a child born or baptised during the 12-day Christmas season.
'The Penguin Dictionary of Surnames' confirms this meaning for the surname 'Yule', but also fails to mention Zuill.
Does this help at all?

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#17141 - Thu Dec 20 2001 01:02 AM Re: Calling all Brits
sue943 Offline
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Registered: Sun Dec 19 1999
Posts: 38005
Loc: Jersey
Channel Islands    
Channel Island names tend to have a French flavour, they are also fond of vowels and of the letter Q. There is a family by the name of De Zille but they are (wealthy) imports to the Island, not local.

Now has you asked about Ouaisne we would be in business.... applications on a postcard as to how to pronounce that one, it gives us no end of amusement listening to tourists trying - it is a place name.

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#17142 - Fri Dec 21 2001 05:54 AM Re: Calling all Brits
flem-ish Offline
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Registered: Thu Oct 11 2001
Posts: 319
Loc: Belgium
Any link with French "ouais", exclamation expressing surprise, irony etc. ??
Guess the answer is way-nay...

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#17143 - Fri Dec 21 2001 02:41 PM Re: Calling all Brits
sue943 Offline
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Registered: Sun Dec 19 1999
Posts: 38005
Loc: Jersey
Channel Islands    
That is exactly as I would have written it out for people to understand - congratulations
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#17144 - Sat Dec 22 2001 01:16 PM Re: Calling all Brits
makebeleaffan Offline
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Registered: Fri Feb 18 2000
Posts: 1764
Loc: Victoria BC Canada      
Thanks for all the help. I guess maybe it might be an ancient spelling for a town that is more closer to a proper yool pronunciation like Flem's Yuille and maybe Youghal, Ireland. Would anyone be interested in me posted the entire quiz in Challenges?
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#17145 - Sat Dec 22 2001 01:33 PM Re: Calling all Brits
chacal Offline
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Registered: Thu Jul 12 2001
Posts: 442
Loc: Nottingham England UK      
Speaking for myself mb, please do.

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#17146 - Sat Dec 22 2001 03:24 PM Re: Calling all Brits
gtho4 Offline
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Registered: Sun Dec 26 1999
Posts: 54484
Loc: Sydney
oz downunder
what chacal said .. do it mate

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#17147 - Sat Dec 22 2001 07:08 PM Re: Calling all Brits
TabbyTom Offline
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Registered: Wed Oct 17 2001
Posts: 8479
Loc: Hastings Sussex
England UK
mb's theory of an "ancient spelling" is probably correct. Old English (Anglo-Saxon) had the letter yogh, which represented the sound of a modern Y at the beginning of a word and looked rather like a modern Z (actually, it looks more like the Cyrillic equivalent of Z). Later Scottish scribes, unfamiliar with the older alphabet, sometimes used z to represent the sound of yogh, e.g. in words like capercailzie (a kind of grouse) or the Scottish legal term tailzie. In England, similarly, the Old English thorn (ț), which stood for "th", was replaced by Y (hence "Ye Olde Tea Shoppe"). So I'd guess that Zuill is a variant spelling of Yuill, with the yogh replaced by a Z.
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#17148 - Fri Dec 12 2003 02:36 PM Re: Calling all Brits
tellywellies Offline
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Registered: Sat Apr 13 2002
Posts: 5473
Loc: South of England
There's a town in Surrey called Ewell (pronounced 'Yool' by many). It's in the Sutton/Kingston-upon-Thames area. I suppose if you replace the 'E' with a 'Z' you'd end up with Zwell. Some sort of error maybe?
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#17149 - Fri Dec 12 2003 05:15 PM Re: Calling all Brits
ren33 Offline
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Registered: Thu Sep 30 1999
Posts: 12593
Loc: Kowloon Tong  Hong Kong      
I wonder if Makebeliefan was looking for an English place name beginning with zed? if so there is Zenna Cove in Cornwall.
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Moderator:  ren33