There's still a couple of more days to get in on the discussion of "Adam Bede," a very interesting book. On Tuesday, we'll be starting our next book of the month club selection, "Things Fall Apart," by African author Chiua Achebe. It first made its way over to the U.S. in 1959 and has already sold over two million copies there. It is a very powerful (and somewhat distrubing) book that takes a complex look at African culture and colinization. It is, I think, quite nuanced, and does not present a black and white picture (i.e. it's not noble savage vs. evil colonizer, or the other way around either).

This is a rather short book, but I am going to propose a suggested discussion schedule to try to avoid early spoilers:

Chapters 1 - 6: July 1 - 7
Chapters 7- 12: July 8 - 14
Chapters 13-18: July 15 - 22
Chapters 19-25: July 22 - end of month

I look forward to discussing this work with my fellow book clubers!

Firstly, I hope that the discussion for "Adam Bede" will go on longer than just a few days. I've no idea why the Book Club threads seem to tail off as soon as the next month starts.

I've been trying to polish off The Aeneid, but it has been quite a long slog as I don't get nearly as much time to read as I would like. There are a few comments I'd like to raise though, so I'll be resurrecting that thread eventually.


Looking forward very much to "Things Fall Apart". May I ask about the schedule for discussion on this to avoid spoilers? Presumably your intention is to discuss the chapters from the previous week only from the following week onwards. Hopefully any backgound material will be entered for discussion at any time though.

Izzi, did you know I had actually got to Book 7 on The Aeneid when the book club sort of faded-out?

I am picking up my copy of "Things Fall Apart" from the library tomorrow. I found an excellent site with study notes for the book and thought everybody would enjoy it.

http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/things/

You know, if a month is not long enough to read and thoroughly discuss a book, I'm sure nobody would mind if we took longer--6 weeks. As long as the book selections go in order, and we know well in advance the selections, do you think? People read at different speeds and some books may be longer than others.

I have really enjoyed reading with the book club, too. The choices have been excellent, and I am sure "Things Fall Apart" will be, too.

I too found a great website that offers background and chapter by chapter, as well as character breakdown. I'll be back later in the week to throw in my two cents worth of story information.

http://www.pinkmonkey.com/booknotes/monkeynotes/pmThingsFall02.asp

Some thoughts so far. (You'll want to have read through Chapter 5 before you read this post!)

Earlier in the Book of the Month Club thread, Izzi quoted a teaser from Washignton State University which contained these lines:

Quote:

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Achebe also fiercely resents the stereotype of Africa as an undifferentiated "primitive" land, the "heart of darkness," as Conrad calls it.

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I think it is interesting—and quite impressive—that this resentment does not cause Achebe to gloss over the negative components of the culture. He resents Conrad's picture of Africa—and yet, the "Heart of Darkness" does not depict, if I am recalling correctly, half the disturbing things I have seen—already—in just the first five chapters of "Things Fall Apart."

So far we have seen a culture dominated by men, where wife beating for small infractions is deemed justified (except during the week of peace, of course). We have seen a land where men come back from war with human heads and drink grape wine from human skulls, a land where old men who have unacceptable diseases are sent out in the wilderness to die, their bodies to rot without burial. This would be excellent fodder for a heart of darkness presentation, if he wanted to cast it that way.

The difference, it seems to me, is tone. Though Conrad's book does not detail things, the whole tone is one of darkness and fear. Achebe presents these things almost without judgment, and he shows the complexities of the culture—the good mixed in with the bad, the virtues and the creulties. In some portions, however, I do sense a clear tone of sadness (more mild than darkness, but still a negative tone). I am thinking particularly of when Okonkwo's father is sent off to die and takes his flute with him.

We are being shown a culture with virtues (where a man is rewarded and judged according to his labor), but also one where some types of people (like Okonkwo's father and his son--more on that later) don't really fit in or have a firm place.

Here is one contradictory complexity I thought interesting. In Chapter 2, a point is made of the fact that a man is not held accountable for the failures of his father; this is presented as a goodness in the culture. Thus Okonkwo can succeed despite his father' past indebtedness, failures, and laziness, and he will be judged by the culture according to his own work. On the other had, the boy Ikemefuna is held accountable for the sins of his father, and must leave his own people and clan to be given over to others. So there seems a kind of complexity or even contradiction there. (What is more, a virgin girl, who is not culpable in any way in the murderers crime, must be given over as a wife to the use of some strange man in a strange land.) As far as work is concerned, each man earns the rewards of his own accomplishments. But as far as crime is concerned, the clan seems to bear a collective guilt.

Achebe is not showing us an all-dark culture like Conrad; but nor is he showing us the modern multiculturalist's naive fantasy of Africa. His portrait is complex, and that is why I found this book so fascinating the first time I read it. It has been years now, so I hope to see more this time, especially with a discussion! I've been avoiding the linked sites with commentary because I want to form my own opinion based on the sense I get form the text-only, but I will probably go to it now and look at what it as to say about the first few chapters.

Finally, I also think it's interesting to see that Achebe makes use of his English education to present this work. Writing in English, first of all (I think this was written in English to begin with—anyone know?) and then making allusions to English poetry, such as "red in tooth and claw" to describe nature (Tennyson, I

The word that came to mind during the first few chapters is "balance". Okonkwo seems to be a continuation of a vicious cycle that has the unfortuanate likelihood of continuing on. Okonkwo views his father as the possessor of qualities that he not only are unproductive, but cause his father to be lazy and poor, qualities Okonkwo himself does not want to cultivate. Instead he chooses the opposite extreme. While Okonkwo appears to be successful, with numerous wives, children and yams, his personality is much to be desired. He chides his children, especially his Nwoye, who he feels has developed a lazy attitude.

The introduction of Ikemefuna made me sincerely hope that a balancing act could occur. At 15, Ikemefuna was a rare combination of masculinity, coupled with a gentle spirit. The bonding of Nwoye and Ikemefuna demonstrated that Nwoye would respons to a gentle remonstration than a harsh word.

I found myself at a cross-roads. The society that Achebe describes is incredibly complex and beautiful, in no way the primitive type of person as "Heart of Darkness" demonstrated.

I was upset at how weak and expendable Okonkwo felt towards women, even going so far as to disrupt the week of peace, and explode at his second wife upon discovering she hurt his banana tree. The only spark is his attitude towards Ezinma who he often declares he wish she had been a boy. A nice roundabout compliment i suppose

Chapter 7 upset me terribly and i will not say much more about that in the hopes others will comment to and I won't spoil a big scene.

Okonkwo saw anger as a manly thing because his own father was so easy-going. In the attack of his wife over the banana tree, we are told that the tree actually "was very much alive". He knew this, too. She had just taken off a few leaves. Okonkwo was ready to explode and hunting for an excuse. He not only soundly beat her, but he went and loaded his gun, and shot towards her as she was clamoring over the barn wall.

It is strange sometimes how childhood can affect an adult's life. I wonder just how successful a father Okonkwo will turn out to be?

Wouldn't Okonkwo have been a fine man if only he had just tempered all his aggression and anger with a little of his father easy going ways?

I have read Chapter 7, too, and as Sebastaincat says, it is very disturbing.

I thought it very interesting that the title "Things Fall Apart" comes from "The Second Coming" by W.B. Yeats;

"Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anaarchy is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."

I love that Yeats poem. It's a picture of the second coming that dispenses with the Teddy-bear-Jesus and describes in vivid detail a world that cannot stay together; that has no cemenet powerful enough to hold it in place. I wonder how much the poem will end up relating to our book here? Later we will see the introduction of the Christian missionaries, and can perhaps further discuss those ramifications then.

Okonkwo is our central character. And yet he is not the best representative of the culture--he is one extreme, his father another. We are given some idea of balance, I think, in his friend Obierika. But how will the focus on Okonkwo ultimately affect our view of the culture as a whole, and our view of the reason for things falling apart.

In one of the chapters I was reading today I found it interesting that this African tribe has the same custom of the Jews of circumscing a child on the 8th day. Very interesting. (Perhaps it all goes back to Sheba's visit to Solomon...)

Hi , it's me. I missed you!
I have read the first few chapters and am struck by two points (many more, but two specifics at this point.)
First , how much we are learning , without being talked down to, of the customs and traditions which govern life in the book. The simple style is such that we understand immediately why people behave as they do. I liked an Observer critic's remark that Achebe: "handles the macabre with telling restraint and the pathetic without any false embarrassment"
Okonkwo is an imperfect man , that's for sure, with many aspects that we see as faults in him. (How perfect is Adam Bede beside him?!)Yet at that time in the Western world, men thought (and behaved) much as he did, fearing to be thought weak and 'womanish', anxious not to show emotions (for women only). They had overriding ambitions to be successful, respected and good providers, brave warriors and stern parents. It is only up to quite recent times (my own lifetime) that it has been "OK"for boys to cry. You heard (and still DO hear) "my wife doesn't go out to work, I don't want her to", meaning that it is considered loss of face for that to happen. What I am trying to say is that wherever this man lives, he could quite easily have been a non African , at that time.
It is such a refreshing change to read this one. I have a feeling something terrible will happen soon, and I am not sure he will handle it, or have much support behind him from family and friends.Maybe I am wrong.

Welcome back, Ren.

Welcome back, Ren, and thanks for the input! You have some valid points, although I think it goes farther than a matter of "time place" for Okonkwo. His anger is such that he violates even the social customs of his own tribe to beat hs wife during the weak of peace..his fear of seeming unmasculine is such that he does a heinous thing to a boy who calls him father. It is not the not-crying that causes the western reader to cringe, it is this active brutal act, performed for fear of being thought weak--and my cringing, I think, isn't just at Okonkwo, but at the fact that the elders of the tribe could demand the son--a mere boy--pay in this way for the sins of his father.

Yet, despite all the the things described in these chapters that horrify me--and there are many--Achebe still suceeds in attaching the reader to the characters, in arousing sympathy. This seems to me a mark of good writing.

His style is very simplistic, but also powerful in its starkness.

There's been no shortage of deep thought regarding this book so far, and I've got lots to catch up with. I've been rather slow to contribute I'm afraid, I must confess that I always find myself far more engrossed in the background and history behind our selections than I do of the novels themselves, so I've been somewhat sidetracked.

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Posted by Skylarb:

In one of the chapters I was reading today I found it interesting that this African tribe has the same custom of the Jews of circumscing a child on the 8th day. Very interesting. (Perhaps it all goes back to Sheba's visit to Solomon...)

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Many learned scholars have pondered over the similarities between Igbo and Hebrew cultures, and a quick search on the internet will turn up many pertinent sites.

This article entitled "Igbo - Hebrew Connection: Fact or Fiction" written by Akunna Madueke highlights many salient points. I found the similarities between the languages particularly fascinating, although there are a few tenuous examples given.

It's a bit of a rant, so you must draw your own conclusions as to the content, but is does include a vast amount of relevant material which you can easily delve deeper into for yourselves should you find it of interest.

More later, when I've finished typing up some of my scribbled ramblings.

I can understand some readers being rather horrified by the role Okonkwo played in the murder of Ikemefuna. On the face of it, it does seem that he took part purely because he didn't want to appear weak in the eyes of his fellow clansmen. But was that the sole reason behind his actions?

Taking a deeper look at some of the cultural beliefs of the Igbo people however, might show the part Okonkwo took in the ritual killing in perhaps a slightly different light. Don't forget that according to tradition the Igbo community differentiated between "good deaths" and "bad deaths". There were also three very different types of sacrificial rituals, and Ikemefuna wasn't slain as a preventative against bad luck, crop failure etc, or as appeasement to atone for any transgression but as a thanksgiving offering. They sacrificed him as a token to give thanks for the unexpected feast of locusts which had descended and settled on and around Umuofia, something so unusual that only the oldest members among them could remember ever having happened before. No animosity was ever shown towards the boy throughout the three years he lived in the village with them and I was given the feeling that although they would miss him, they were proud to offer Ikemefuna up as a sacrifice for their bountiful harvest and therefore his death would have been considered a good one. The way in which the elders decreed that Okonkwo needn't take part in the proceedings showed that they held great respect for both Okonkwo and the adolescent "who called him Father".

Remember too that the boy had already been struck heavily once by a matchet and ran terrified towards Okonkwo crying "My Father, they have killed me!". That sounds to me as though the boy knew that the blow he had been dealt would eventually be fatal, and as that first strike wasn't instantly successful in slaying Ikemefuna, possibly Okonkwo thought it better to make a quick, clean kill and cut him down to spare the boy from any further suffering.

Following the incident, when Obierika criticized Okonkwo for carrying out the second strike and killing the boy, he replied by saying "But someone had to do it. If we were all afraid of blood, it would not be done. And what do you think the Oracle would do then?"

Okonkwo's loyalty to traditional beliefs and his people was completely beyond question, and so I too would agree that if he'd been ordered to go out and kill the boy alone he would have done so without a moment's hesitation.

I wasn't aware that he was killed as a thank offering, but human sacrifice as a thank offering, frankly, is even more horrifying to me than punishing the son for the sins of his father. (The kind of actions that made the continent the "dark continent" to Conrad, but here portrayed with a nuanced, sympathetic touch.)

He may also have cut down the boy in part to hasten the end of his suffering, but the text clearly says he did it because he was afraid of being thought weak. The other view requires reading between the lines, but it seems a strong possibility.

Although we weren't actually told why the boy Ikemefuna must be killed, the fact that the elders were told of the Oracle's demands whilst they were dancing and feasting was the reason why I interpreted the text that way. I suppose an alternative notion would be that the Oracle just decided it was time for him to die, but then his death in this manner would have seemed to have been wasteful. What impression were the rest of you given regarding the incident?

Ikemefuna and the young maiden were given to the people of Umuofia as restitution for a crime of murder carried out against them. So yes, they were both paying for the sins of another, but by settling the dispute in this manner it had the effect of averting an all out war and saving the lives of many others. Throughout Achebe's narrative he made it quite clear through many proverbs how strongly they felt that the actions of one affected them all, so this form of arbitration came across as justifiable when looked at through their eyes. The boy effectively became theirs to do with as they chose, and they took him in and treated him as one of their own for years before the decision was made to kill him.

The reason I felt that they regarded it as an honour to give him up as an offering was the way they said he was "going home" rather than put to death. To go home to the spiritual world of their ancestors was what they all hoped for after death, as I mentioned before, a good way to die.

Comments?

The reasons why the oracle ordered the death of Ikemefuna are obscure. But as the story continues, I wonder if it was because the boy is too perfect?
Ikemefuna is perfect son and brother. He succeeds in helping Nwoye to be more confident in himself,where his own father can't. Nwoye tries to please his father,by pretending to be macho, showing that maybe Ikefuma is his true role model.
Ikemefuna could be a Christ figure. Maybe he dies as a sacrifice for the good of the many? Nwoye later converts to Christianity as he is against some of the practices of his own people. It seems that the death of Ikemefuma affected them both deeply.
I am a bit puzzled as to why the death of twins is dwelt on right after the death of Ikemfuma. Is there something we are not told about the customs and beliefs that says adopted boys as well as twins have to die? Someone?

If we are to stick to the discussion schedule as agreed, so as NOT to give away spoilers, for the moment we should still be dealing with just the first half of the book, before the Christian missionaries arrived on the scene. Perhaps we could discuss Nwoye's change of heart in greater depth next week.

Even though we are told Okonkwo strikes down Ikemufuna because "He was afraid of being thought weak", I think izzi is right about Okonkwo doing the merciful thing in dealing the killing blow. What bothers me about Okonkwo is that I do not think he should have gone with the men in the first place.

Ogbuefi Ezeudu, the oldest and most respected man in their part of Umuofia, came to Okonkwo's obi and told him that the Umuofina had decided to kill Ikemefuna. He tells Okonkwo that the Oracle of Hills and Caves has ordered it. He also tells Okonkwo that he should have no part in this because the boy calls Okonkwo "father". I wonder if Okonkwo putting himself into the position of being the one to strike the killing blow, would he not have actually angered the god instead of appeasing it?

Why did Okonkwo go? He had great reknown as a warrior, his feats in wresting were legendary, he was much respected, prosperous, he held titles--in all ways a great man in the Umuofia. He did not have to prove anything to anyone by going.

Ren has mentioned the twin babies abandoned in the forest. Since it is told about in Chapter Seven, when Ikemefuna is being lead to his fate, I think it would be safe to bring this up and ask everybody's opinion on this.

As soon as I read about the twins being abandoned in the forest, I remembered the only other novel I had ever seen a reference to a baby being abandoned in a similar manner. It was in Diana Gabaldon's novel "Outlander", set in the Scottish Highlands of 1740's, when Claire came across a baby left to die because it was thought to be a changeling. If this is actually based on historical fact, or is just something from the vivid imagination of the author, I'm afraid I do not know. If it is true, then it shows that that certainly the Umuofia were not the only ones that abandoned babies because they were different.

Also, it is good to have ren with us. This novel is really one that calls for lots of discussion, isn't it?

Linda--I agree that the problem is that Okonkwo went with the party to slay Ike. in the first place--and the reason he went was so that he was not thought of as weak. No one expected it of him--indeed, he was told NOT to go, and he had to prove himself. He went against the better judgment of his fellow tribesmen.

Izzi--I don't know why Ike. was sacrificed, but a thank offering does sound reasonable (more so than a delayed execution, given the context).

Ren—The idea of Ike. as a Christ figure is interesting, and I can see where you get it, though I am inclined not to think so. There are not enough parallels, and, unltimately, I don't see that his death serves to "save" anyone in anyway.

As for those asking about the twins—Some African tribes left all twin babies in the forest to die because they were thought to be evil. Why they were thought to be evil I do not know. (We note that Okonkwo's father was left in the forest to die also, because he had some disease that was thought to be evil.)

I think there is a strong tone of sadness in this novel--like maybe silent submission to the customs and traditions of the tribe is not necessarily the best thing (more on this later when we get to chapter 13 and Obierka's thoughts and still more later). Currently, what is holding things together is that no one questions tradition--tradition binds the people. If they continue to submit to it without question, the tribe will remain closely knit; but if they begin to question it--or if outsiders question it—or if appealing alternatives are offered to them--that cement of tradition will begin to erode.

Ren--I think the twins are dealt on right after the slaying of Ike. to compound the general tone of sadness, and to compound the sense that silent submission to tradition, though it serves the good of binding the tribe together, also is bad in that it leaves some individuals aching inside--in this case, Nwoye, who probably feels in his heart that something is not right about slaying Ike. to appease the oracle or in leaving twins to die, and therefore in both cases something snaps inside him. This is the second time he has felt this breaking inside. But what can he do? He can do nothing but submit to the tradition, and keep this aching emptiness close to his own heart.

This is why I wonder at the academics who describe this book as painting a picture of the great value of African culture, or those who say it an anti-colonization book. It is so much more complicated than that. It shows a culture that has great values, but that also has great wrongs--wrongs that cause the heart of some of its individuals to break. It shows a culture where tradition is at once a virtue--the tie that binds and keeps order and peace---and at the same time a vice--the inflexible wall that closes in around those longing for something beyond. Achebe saddens us and then lifts us up; shows us something to revile and then immediately after something to admire...

This is my third time reading this book and I still can't get a grip on just what Achebe's point is. But each time I have read it, this has been a powerful experience for me. It's now been seven years since my last reading, so I don't remember how it goes. I'm glad to be getting into it again and to have people to discuss it with!

I must apologise for my 'spoiler'especially as I had ranted and raved about spoilers. I have now read the schedule properly.
I can only say I read fast and furiously to catch up and obviously overdid it.
I am going back to re read , as I often do. You all amaze me at your 'insightfulness'.
I can only say that the horrible killing of Ikemefuno must have been an unusual event among them. If not, why does Nwoye feel something break inside him? He gets the same feelings over the twins. So is it that Nwoye is 'different'. Where has he got this conflict of emotions from? The oracle has directed things before, why does it upset him so? This is what I have maybe missed.

Hi Guys - thanks for making
I wasn't aware that he was killed as a thank offering, but human sacrifice as a thank offering, frankly, is even more horrifying to me than punishing the son for the sins of his father.

The first post I had to look at as a MOD - In any other Forum I might have had to do something (now if someone can tell me how to do it!)