50%! You can't be serious Fosse How about we ask Woodwardwould to play the quarters with 8 men and test this theory of yours. Perhaps we can get HIM to squirt lemon juice in Jonnies eyes and test this theory of mine.

Seriously, I don't think we'll really see much form until the quarters , and even then a lot of the gun teams won't be tested. Australia will most likely face Scotland in their first final. Hardly a testing game from what I witnessed of the Highland Warriors in Brisbane on monday night. If the USA had some balls and went for a few 5 pointers rather than slotting penalty kicks they may have won that game. The $5.40 a cup Heineken's where the big winners on the night.

There seems to be an awful lot of bragging going on in here at the moment mainly from our cousins across the ditch
All I can say is remember what the Kiwis did to the Kangaroos last weekend and know that the All Blacks will take inspiration from that!! Go the All Blacks!! and Copago, that was a very old joke

And oldie but a goldie.

Still think it's going to be an England v New Zealand final and with all these Poms here at FT the Kiwi's are going to need all the defense they can get in this forum.

Did I miss a league test? Seriously? Was there a league test on?

Siri. First off welcome (virtual Haka being performed) it's great to see an All Black shouting their corner.! Secondly please read my first post of the thread - this is a Fan's Zone thread where you can extol or berate the team with impunity.

Have to agree wth Bertho, there's only a couple of interesting games to come (if your looking at the outcome of the tournament) There's a few games between the minnows I'm really looking forward to.
group A - I think this will come down to the Australia v Ireland match to decide the Group winners (How much will the bonus point Oz lost be worth)
Australia and Ireland to go through, but I'm not sure in which order.
Group B - Again down to the France v Scotland game to decide the order
France to top the group?
Group C - South Africa v Samoa to decide whose second in the group! Head says SA, Heart says Samoa!
Group D - Down to the Italy v Wales to decide whose 2nd.
Wales playing for pride might just edge it (Head say's New Zealand Italy to qualify_
Quarter Finals
Winners A - (Australia or Ireland) v R/up B (France or Scotland)
Winners B - (France or Scotland) v R/up A ( Argentina or Ireland)
Winners C (England) v R/up D (Wales or Italy)
Winners D -(New Zealand) v R/UP C (Samoa or South Africa)

This really has nothing to do with the tournament but I'd love to see Samoa go out and play 7's rugby and stick 50 points on the Springbok (I don't think it'll happen but it would be a great game )

Uhh.....Springboks are the English team or are they someone else ? I'm confused !

Thanks for the welcome and the virtual haka Fosse4 and yes I had read your first post Bertho, there was a league test last weekend but I can't remember the actual score. All I know is that the Kiwis won by quite a big margin
Copago, here's one for you........What's the difference between a broken jet engine and the Aussie rugby team supporters? Ans...Eventually the jet engine stops whining!!
Sorry, just couldn't resist that one. My son just told that to me

Angie (chinky),
Springboks are South Africa
England don't have a nickname (They are the Lions when on overseas tours)
New Zealand are All Blacks
Australia are Wallabies
Argentina are Puma's
I have the others somewhere I'll have to look them up.

Thanks, Fosse,

So the New Zealand's are AllBlacks, are they ? They have just lost my support !

Hi Chinky, May I ask why the All Blacks have just lost your support?

Sorry, siri, black is definitely NOT my favourite colour. Reminds me of ghosts in an really dark night without any light !

The Aussie openers Hayden and Langer, in their first one day game in India, smash the hapless bowling around to be 0 - 141 at the first drinks break... no, wait. That was the rugby against Namibia, AND it was Australia's second 15. What a great advertisement for rugby these games are. The Black's V Tonga 91 - 7. England V Georgia 84 - 6 etc.

Does anybody enjoy seeing a country get walloped so badly? Is it fair to put these amateur nations against professional rugby playing nations like Australia and England? I read somewhere that Romania's player allowance was $14 dollars a day which wouldn’t even buy an upsized Big Mac meal deal at the local Scottish restaurant. Can the tournament be structured in a way that the top 10 teams play each other and the bottom 10 need to earn the right to play against the top 10 in the quarters or is it best to leave it as survival of the fittest? I think the tournament would be a much better spectacle if the pro nations weren't there, but perhaps neither would be the crowds. Surely there is a better way, what do you think?

I've enjoyed watching the developing rugby countries play, in particular Georgia and Japan. They know how to play and have shown plenty of guts and determination at the breakdown. It was brilliant to see an udersized Japan pushing the huge Fijian forwards backwards in the maul and scrum. I'd prefer to watch Georgia play Japan over Australia v Namibia any day of the week.

Like you Bertho, I don't enjoy watching teams give of their best and getting hammered. Namibia were not really that bad, Australia (who were still not on top of their game - I dread to think what the score would have been if they had been) were just too god for them. The same could be said about Scotland (who could be qualifying for the quarter finals) they just were not in the game with France today and the score reflected the game.
How to involve the smaller nations without subjecting them to humiliating defeats (difficult one - they have to play against at least one major nation to prove their worth) - I'd personally prefer to see regional qualifying (Europe, America's, Austra/Asia), 4 teams from each region (Plus 4 wild cards/best regional results) to qualify for the final stages to be played on a KO Seeded basis. That would give the smaller nations their chance to play against the top teams but even if they lost heavily in a single game could still qualify for the Final stages. It would mean Oz and NZ or England/Scotland/Ireland/france/Italy/Wales having to qualify from the same group or getting a wild card but I don't think that would be a problem - However I think the TV stations/Sponsors might have soimething to say!

I confess to having a little giggle last night when Samoa went into the dressing shed at half time with a lead. What was England’s answer 30 seconds into the second half? Drop goal attempt. What a courageous side. It's that attitude that will always hold England back. I don't think England played badly, Samoa just played exceptionally well. Considered the entire Samoan population is only 171,000, it puts their performance against the team ranked 1in the world as truly inspiring.

I've looked ahead at the finals draw now it looks relatively safe to do so.

QF1: NZ v SA (South Africa still could be upset by Samoa)
QF2: AUS V SCOT
QF3: FRA V IRE
QF4: ENG V WAL

SEM1: NZ V AUS
SEM2: FRA V ENG

So, England won't be tested by a Southern hemisphere team during the semi's, which should be a gift entry into the final. If Australia is to make it through they have to defeat the All Blacks.

The big game questions are –

Can either Wales or France upset England?
Will Samoa beat South Africa to get a QF start? I hope they can because NZ v Samoa in the first QF would be a cracker.
Will Australia put 50 points into Scotland?
Can Ireland get over France to play England in the semi?

Bertho - It wasn't a shock it was a wonderful half of Rugby! Samoa deserve every credit for the way they played and it was wonderful to see the ball hurtling up and back along the backs line, the first try BRILLIANT! It's a shame they ran out of steam at the end but that's always going to be the difference between the Pro and Am sides.
That's two poor English performances, one more like that and they'll exit to Wales in the 1/4's

Anyway -
Samoa to beat South Africa - Quite Possible on todays showing.

I agree it was a superb half of rugby. England were denied the chance to get phases going. As I said, England did nothing wrong, the Samoan's would have tested any top 4 side. I really hope they beat SA because on their current form, the QF match against the Blacks will be a gem. There's plenty of rivalry and it'd be worth the price of a ticket just to see the war cries.

Apparently the Samoan's play all over the world proffesionaly, some in the UK, some in the Super 12 comp, some in Europe. Many players couldn't get releases from their club sides to play in this World Cup so they could have even been stronger.

I have to say that the Samoa/England game so far has been the pick of the tournament. It was very exciting and, sorry Fosse, it certainly showed up some of Englands weaknesses. I felt very sorry for the Namibian team and turned it off after about 20 mins as I couldn't watch it. I agree that we certainly need to look at having a different format for the next one

Siri, there's no need to feel sorry - England showed they were too drilled in facing the top teams who play the same sort of game - Samoa played the type of rugby I really like to watch, Forwards doing their stuff and then throw it about regardless of where you are on the pitch. I know it can and will go completely wrong now and again , but when it works it's magic!
I think todays result USA beat Japan is the upset of the tournament so far! (have yet to see the game but I didn't see that one coming!)

I had originally tipped Japan to win after their gutsy displays against Scotland in Townsville and a spirited display against the Frogs a week later. An under performing Fiji team showed them up a few days later. Perhaps the petrol had run out.

The USA on the other hand were 1 point off beating Fiji and could have beaten Scotland in Brisbane had of they gone for the 5 pointers rather than the 3's. I didn't see it as a great upset on match records. They are a good team but no doubt will be sorely tested against France on Friday night.

Does anyone have comments on how tough the draw has been for some of the teams? Why is it that teams that lack depths are given the short straw when teams with virtually two equal sides like Australia and England cruise through with plenty of repair time? Italy for example had their 4 pool games on the 11th (against the All Blacks), 15th, 21st, 25th. 4 games of rugby in 14 days. They have packed their bags and gone home already. Japan played on the 12th, 18th, 23rd, 27th.

Obviously organisers have to make allowances for draw card games, but if this is to be at the detriment of other participating teams, then I say UNFAIR! Extend the tournament a week and give everyone a fair go.

Can't argue with any of that Bertho - Let's have a pre-world cup qualifier competition before the main event (At the main venue with the same TV coverage) . We know who the top 8 in the world are, so let the next 16 have their day with a K..O to decide who will play the top 8 in the first round proper of the main KO competition (we might get some good games to watch, very even teams playing each other with absolutely nothing to lose).

The first game of the Tournament proper may be a walk-over for the top 8 qualifier but then again it might not (If that had been Englands first game I think they may have lost it!!!)

Well OZ win by the skin of their teeth, Ireland deserved at least a draw. Best game of the tournament so far!

And Bertho - they were lucky, the penalty given against the Irish for the collapsed scrum clearly shows the Oz hooker to have both feet off the ground and in front of the hooking zone. No wonder the scrum collapsed! (and thank goodness no-one was seriously hurt!) and I'm sorry that Samoa couldn't repeat their performance against England against the Springbok, their handling was attrocious and they never looked like winning.

I was at the Samoa match and haven't yet seen the Aussie game. Out of jail though it seems. I think the result matters little as it now goes to knock out and both teams are through, but I'd rather play Scotland than france at the moment.

The Samoan forwards forgot to show up. It was a dissapointing end to their tournament, but they did have a difficult Pool to get through. A couple of things happened at the game I'll remember for a long time. A pitch invader (a Sydney man... Ozz?) ran out as Koen was kicking for goal on fulltime. He caught his boot and was knocked out cold. It was hilarious. I don't think Koen even knew he was there and made the kick.

At the end of the game the Samoan's linked arms and formed a prayer circle on the field and were joined by many of the South African players. Some SA players had left the field and came running back in to join. They swapped jumpers, something of a tradition I haven't seen for a long time. It was great to see the mutual respect and the unity of two very different countries.

As an England Rugby fan and hopeful of success (although France worry me most) I was quietly impressed by the Irish and Welsh spirit in their final matches against Australia and New Zealand respectively.

The Irish were mighty unlucky to lose to what i think has to be the weakest Australian side in years, Rogers is a poor 15 and I really think when the real work starts he will be destroyed. Wendell Sailor is predictable and Gregan has not performed as sharply as what is expected of him. The Kiwis look average and when tested they were made to fight by the Welsh. I am however, like i said above very very impressed by the French. For me they look the most compete line up, they run the ball superbly, they are excellent in the scrum and line out. Thier kicking is excellent and their handling the best i have seen in any side.
My team England have had to put up with a lot of anti Pom garbage from the Aussie press and i for one look forward to facing the Aussies in the final...but i dont think it will happen, i dont think the Aussies will even win their semi final!!
England should win against the Welsh and the game against the French (should they beat a very good Irish team) will be a great semi final.
Whatever happens its going to be a South vs North Hemisphere final, and the Webb Ellis trophy will be going to Europe..

Doomed, I love your enthusiasm for an English victory. I don’t think they are playing at their 6 Nation form, and can count themselves very lucky they won’t meet Australia or New Zealand before the final. Ireland was terrific. That performance would have tested ANY side in this tournament, England included. As for France, they are shaping to be the bogey side they were in ’99, but I still think they haven’t been properly tested yet.

You’re wrong about Rogers. Tell me when you’ve seen a fullback get more involved in a game of rugby. He can play wing, both center positions and number 15. He is also very quick and a gifted kicker and the Australian’s look a far better side with him in it. I accept your take on Sailor. He’s slow, always out of position, he can’t kick and he still looks lost after 3 seasons of rugby. What annoys me most is his poor defense. I remember he was a great defender when he played league, what happened? How often do players simply run around him to score! Just be thankful they keep starting him over Tiquri. He's a handfull. Gregan has had his day. He’s far too predictable, doesn’t run, and takes too much liberty at the back of the breakdown giving the defense time to rush in. Whittiker has a better running game but there’s no way he’ll get a start in front of the captain.

One thing is for certain, the gap between north and south hemisphere has closed considerably which is a brilliant thing. I also look forward to a clash of hemispheres in the final and keep my fingers crossed Australia can go through. They aren’t the team they were, yet they’re winning and will only improve.

Yahoo!!!!! We did it......We beat the Springboks......bring on the semi-finals!!