#200506 - Mon Nov 10 2003 01:09 PM
Tell Me I'm Not Mad
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Mainstay
Registered: Thu Jan 30 2003
Posts: 901
Loc: Israel
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Quote:
"... Behavior, of which social systems comprise one analytical aspect, is always in another aspect the behavior of living human organisms. Every such organism has at any given moment a given location in physical space which can be changed only through physical motion. Hence, the ecological aspect of the relations among individuals and their actions is never safely neglected. Similar considerations apply to organic processes and to personality functioning and development, both of which are also consistently present as factors of concrete action. Exigencies relating to personalities, behavioral organisms, and the physical-organic environment account for many of the complex, cross-cutting dimensions of the actual organization and functioning of social systems, which require careful analysis and which constantly raise difficulties for social scientists." (From T. Parsons, "The Concept of Society: The Components and Their Interrelations"
So far I've read seven pages of this (with another fourteen to go), and I understand very little. I know all the words, I understand all the terms, but the sentences make very little sense. Am I being obtuse, or is this piece an example of really bad English writing, or at the very least really really bad sentence structure?
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"Talk is cheap, arms are not"- Victor Davis Hanson
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#200507 - Mon Nov 10 2003 01:33 PM
Re: Tell Me I'm Not Mad
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Moderator
Registered: Wed Mar 15 2000
Posts: 16214
Loc: The Delta Quadrant
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No, you're not crazy... Some people think they look smarter to use big words that no one can understand. I think the real test of intelligence is to be able to explain something very complicated and make it understandable to anyone with a high school graduation.
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#200508 - Mon Nov 10 2003 01:51 PM
Re: Tell Me I'm Not Mad
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Mainstay
Registered: Thu Jan 30 2003
Posts: 901
Loc: Israel
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The problem is that this isn't just some idiot rambling on about incoherent theories. Apparently this guy was one of the most important sociologists of the twentieth century. He was brilliant enough to produce the "structural-functional" theory of society, quite an accomplishment regardless of whether or not you appreciate the theory. Couldn't he have produced slightly less run-on sentences?
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"Talk is cheap, arms are not"- Victor Davis Hanson
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#200509 - Mon Nov 10 2003 01:54 PM
Re: Tell Me I'm Not Mad
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Multiloquent
Registered: Fri Nov 23 2001
Posts: 3082
Loc:
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SNM this seems like someone is filling in the word count for their publisher - I could use all the extraneous incontrovertible words that would make up a comprehensible post but to be perfectly honest - I AM refraining from using the words which would prove I am extracting the "INSERT WORD" from my answer
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#200510 - Mon Nov 10 2003 02:20 PM
Re: Tell Me I'm Not Mad
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Multiloquent
Registered: Mon Dec 06 1999
Posts: 2742
Loc: Wyoming USA Way Out West
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Translation: People move around a lot and disturb the environment, cutting down trees, plowing up ground, building homes. Some of them would rather be bookkeepers than builders, so society has to make room for everybody. Questions?
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Some days it just doesn't seem worth trying to chew through the restraints.
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#200511 - Tue Nov 11 2003 02:13 AM
Re: Tell Me I'm Not Mad
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Forum Champion
Registered: Mon Apr 22 2002
Posts: 5007
Loc: Western Australia
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Re: "The problem is that this isn't just some idiot rambling on about incoherent theories. Apparently this guy was one of the most important sociologists of the twentieth century."
In my humble opinion, being an "important sociologist" does not mean that he/she can't be an idiot nor does it preclude rambling. In fact, it seems to me that rambling on incoherently is exactly what he is doing! (I'll use a generic "he", for the sake of simplicity).
I'm with Ladymacb - if this sociologist can't communicate his ideas in plain English, then he contributes very little of value.
I'm really impressed with fjohn's translation of that little gem - I couldn't make that much sense out of it and I am not stupid.
P.S. snm - you are only mad if you waste your time reading the remaining 14 pages (LOL).
Edited by MotherGoose (Tue Nov 11 2003 02:14 AM)
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Don't say "I can't" ... say " I haven't learned how, yet." (Reg Bolton)
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#200512 - Tue Nov 11 2003 10:58 AM
Re: Tell Me I'm Not Mad
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Multiloquent
Registered: Mon Dec 06 1999
Posts: 2742
Loc: Wyoming USA Way Out West
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Thank you, MotherGoose. I can recall only one other use for the word "exingency," meaning, 'urgency or requiring immediate action.' That was when I was a young airman in the USAF; my commander gave me a verbal order to go to another air base to help with a problem they had. My written orders followed later and included the phrase..."the exigiencies of the services being such as to preclude the issuance of competent written orders." In other words, he told me what to do and get cracking before the paperwork arrived.
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Some days it just doesn't seem worth trying to chew through the restraints.
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#200513 - Tue Nov 11 2003 05:29 PM
Re: Tell Me I'm Not Mad
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Forum Champion
Registered: Mon Apr 22 2002
Posts: 5007
Loc: Western Australia
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You're very welcome, fjohn. Obviously, the important sociologist never read "Elements of Style" by Strunk and White. I think it should be compulsory reading in every English class.
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Don't say "I can't" ... say " I haven't learned how, yet." (Reg Bolton)
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#200514 - Thu Nov 13 2003 02:37 PM
Re: Tell Me I'm Not Mad
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Mainstay
Registered: Thu Jan 30 2003
Posts: 901
Loc: Israel
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The downside of being an English speaker: everyone else who had to read the article gave up in disgust on page three, assuming that the level of English was just too high. I, on the other hand, was so frustrated by my inability to understand the damn thing, that I soldiered on and finished reading it at two A.M. It actually improved a bit from page eight onwards, although at one point a sentence made so little sense that I actually opened a dictionary to check if one of the words had an additional meaning that I was unaware of (It didn't). I woke up the next morning tired as can be, and spent the whole day assuring people that no, I was not sick, I was simply tired, and that was why I was so pale. The next day I was sick as a dog- I blame Parsons.
Fjohn's translation, while far more interesting than the actual text, is unfortunately not in any way related to the actual meaning. Having had Parsons' theory explained to me in plain Hebrew (with a strong Russian accent*), I can now offer a full translation:
Social systems are one part of behaviour, which is also known as "The Action System". The physical part of people forms the basis for behaviour, or "The Action System". Every person is at a certain place at any given time, and the only way to change the physical place is through physical movement. This affects our behaviour, or actions. All of this can be repeated, while changing the words around and inserting "organism" and "personality" in the correct spaces in an unexplained manner ("organisms" and "personality" are also aspect of "behaviour", or "The Action System"). When all of these barely-understood and totally unexplainable things are taken into consideration, we come to the conclusion that social systems are complicated and sociologists have a tough job.
No wonder most of the sociological establishment has spent the last four decades debunking Parsons...
*I could have had the theory explained to me again, in Hebrew with a strong Arabic accent, but I missed it because I was sick.
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"Talk is cheap, arms are not"- Victor Davis Hanson
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#200515 - Thu Nov 13 2003 05:41 PM
Re: Tell Me I'm Not Mad
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Multiloquent
Registered: Mon Dec 06 1999
Posts: 2742
Loc: Wyoming USA Way Out West
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Oh, of course, the Action System!  That's the system where the word exigencies comes from. Now I know why I didn't want to major in Sociology.
_________________________
Some days it just doesn't seem worth trying to chew through the restraints.
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