I recently had a suggestion put to me about having a thread titled 'Country of the Month'. This came from angi who must have grown tired of talking about India.

The thread can just about include everything to do with the country. History, politics, geography, arts and literature, sciences, entertainment and music, famous events and other things. The list is pretty well inexhaustive.

Put it up for discussion and you will be sure to get a response.

So I fossicked in my atlas and came up with Ireland.

Did someone say something about the great potato famine? Or was it James Joyce and The Cranberries? Maybe it was Michael Collins and The Troubles.

As I said the floor is all yours.

About the Potato Famine, here's what worldbook.com says

In Antwort auf:

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In 1801, the population of Ireland was about 5 million. By 1841, it had risen to more than 8 million. As the population grew, farms dwindled in size. Many farm families lived on potatoes and little else. In 1845, blight affected the potato crop in widely separated areas. In 1846, blight appeared throughout the whole country. The potatoes rotted, and many people faced starvation.

The prime minister, Sir Robert Peel, introduced relief schemes in the poorest areas to enable people to earn enough money to buy maize that the government imported from the United States. But these measures were totally inadequate, and the next government, under Lord John Russell, had to distribute food free of charge. But these relief measures were also inadequate. Hundreds of thousands died, along the roadsides or in their huts, and were buried in common graves.

As a result of the Great Famine, the population of the country dropped from 81/4 million to 61/2 million. It is believed that a million people died of hunger and disease. Nearly a million people emigrated, most of them to the United States and Canada. They left Ireland with bitterness in their hearts, believing that Britain was the cause of all their suffering.

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It began with a blight of the potato crop that left acre upon acre of Irish farmland covered with black rot. As harvests across Europe failed, the price of food soared. Subsistence-level Irish farmers found their food stores rotting in their cellars, the crops they relied on to pay the rent to their British and Protestant landlords destroyed. Peasants who ate the rotten produce sickened and entire villages were consumed with cholera and typhus. Parish priests desperate to provide for their congregations were forced to forsake buying coffins in order to feed starving families, with the dead going unburied or buried only in the clothes they wore when they died.

Landlords evicted hundreds of thousands of peasants, who then crowded into disease-infested workhouses. Other landlords paid for their tenants to emigrate, sending hundreds of thousands of Irish to America and other English-speaking countries. But even emigration was no panacea -- shipowners often crowded hundreds of desperate Irish onto rickety vessels labeled "coffin ships." In many cases, these ships reached port only after losing a third of their passengers to disease, hunger and other causes. While Britian provided much relief for Ireland's starving populace, many Irish criticized Britain's delayed response -- and further blamed centuries of British political oppression on the underlying causes of the famine.





The Irish Famine of 1846-50 took as many as one million lives from hunger and disease, and changed the social and cultural structure of Ireland in profound ways. The Famine also spurred new waves of immigration, thus shaping the histories of the United States and Britain as well.

The combined forces of famine, disease and emigration depopulated the island; Ireland's population dropped from 8 million before the Famine to 5 million years after. If Irish nationalism was dormant for the first half of the nineteenth-century, the Famine convinced Irish citizens and Irish-Americans of the urgent need for political change. The Famine also changed centuries-old agricultural practices, hastening the end of the division of family estates into tiny lots capable of sustaining life only with a potato crop.

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Pretty interesting.

http://www.people.virginia.edu/~eas5e/Irish/Famine.html

One thing I find fascinating about Ireland is the the fact that Irish language (Gaelic) is actually still spoken in very few rural parts of Ireland. All children have to learn it in school and there is a TV station, which broadcasts only in Irish.The Irish national anthem has lyrics in both English and Irish, and if you go to Ireland, you will notice that all the road signs etc are bilingual as well.
I found a website that has basic sentences and grammar for Gaelic, which can be found here:
www.daltai.com/phrases.htm

(I hope the link works. I've never tried that before )

I have a few questions that have puzzled me about the little green place for years. Perhaps someone has the answers?

Why don’t the Irish use their arms in that Riverdance stuff? And, if this dance is a representation of Ireland stock, is every Irish lassie 6 foot tall with flowing red or blonde locks?

Why do Irish folk have such a penchant for music and how do they turn out such a continuos stream of very talent singers and musicians? Have I ever mentioned the Corrs sisters? Such talent!

Where did the ‘O’ come from in O’Shanessey, O’Heany, O’Dear, etc?

What was the Irish contribution in WW2? Did they raise an all-Irish regiment? If so which army group where they attached to?

How long does it take to fly from London to Dublin?

How many ferries operate over the North Channel and Irish and Celtic Seas? Is there a vehicular ferry?

What type of passport/immigration control is in operation? Can any British citizen roam freely as they choose?

Is the River Shannon really as evil as Frank McCourt suggested in ‘Angela’s Ashes’?

Where there any fixed defensive fortifications along the coastline to prevent landings from the Norse and the English? If so, do any remain?

Does Ireland have any nuclear energy?

Bertho. I'll try to answer some of your questions as best I can. In WWII conscription didn't apply in N. Ireland, as the government felt it might be provocative. However, a very large number of men from both N. Ireland and what was then the Irish Free State fought as volunteers in the British armed forces ...

Long before the EU (or any of its predecessors) were founded there was an agreement between the UK and the Irish Free State which gave citizens of both countries a special status in the "other" country, such as the parliamentary vote after two years' residence.

As for border controls, there were none until the troubles of 1969 onwards. In practice, I would expect some controls as the UK - unlike other EU contries - still "guards its borders".
Btw, Leau, I've found when flying within the EU that there are border controls at all international airports ...

London-Dublin is a short flight - about 1hour ... There are also ferry services for vehicles, the main route being that from Holyhead to Dublin.

Perhaps the most important point, though, is that after a long period of relative poverty, the Republic of Ireland became the "Celtic tiger" in the late 1980s/1990s and living standards there are now broadly in line with those in the UK.

Is it just an impression of mine that the people of this
"intriguing" island are somewhat underrepresented at FT?
And how come Irish people are always described as lacking in intelligence in British jokes? Especially if you take into account that some of the greatest authors in English literature happen to be Irish: Wilde, Joyce, Shaw, Sheridan, Swift - and many more.

Good point Flem-ish, I did want to get some opinions about the creative literature genius that Ireland seems to have no trouble producing. Anyone want to have a crack?

Thanks for your responses Bloomsby. Back to the Irish in WW2, does anyone know if they were kept together, say in company size attachments etc, or were they just scattered throughout the various army fields of service?

So with the European border controls, I could fly directly from Australia to Warsaw, get through immigration there, hire a car and drive direct to Dublin (via ferry), but only have to again produce my passport when coming out of the Channel Tunnel in England? In Australia we don't let Victorians into Queensland for a holiday without a full bodysearch, delousing, financial documents, and a first born child left at the border for a deposit!

Um, Bertho, I think you'd have to wait for Poland to become a EU member first...

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Btw, Leau, I've found when flying within the EU that there are border controls at all international airports ...

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That thought crossed my mind, but you don't have to fly to Ireland, you can get there by other means of transportation, right? So there would be a way around the passport control.

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Bertho, I think you'd have to wait for Poland to become a EU member first

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Fair point.. I thought every country stretching from Spain to China was in the EU? Nevermind, you get the gist.

Gosh I've only just noticed this thread, and being an Irish lass myself I may be able to shed some light on the issues raised.

Firstly about the potato famine - manvinder's post covers most of the issues, however one outstanding reason for the devastation wreaked by this famine is that the potato crop failed for about 4 years in a row, thus leaving people with no resources either to plant future crops, or to eat during the year of the actual crop failures. Also, whilst there was food available it was not affordable for the masses, most of whom were in servitude to the English landowners of the time. Food became such an expensive commodity, that the local Irish people who worked the land raised healthy crops of other products for the masters, and had to see it all being sent away out of their country, whilst their own meagre plot of potatoes failed again and again. This is one of the reasons for the bitterness the emigrants carried over leaving their homeland.

As Chris1013 rightly points out, the Irish language (Gaeilge) is still used in some rural parts of Ireland, and there are several Irish-language schools throughout the country. I lived in Dublin as a child and my neighbours 6 doors down were native Irish speakers. The children were brought up speaking Irish as their mother-tongue, and English as a second language. The Irish-language TV channel is relatively new - TnaG is about 7 years old approximately.

Why don't the dancers use their arms in the Riverdance stuff, is because traditional Irish dancing takes two forms - set dancing which is done in group formations, where arms are used, and step dancing which is what we see in Riverdance. Step dancing concentrates on foot movements, and the arms are supposed to be held loosely by the sides. They are not supposed to be ramrod straight, but are not supposed to waggle about much either, so as not to detract interest from the feet. Riverdance is not really traditional. The costumes the performers are wearing are not traditional, and the style of dancing includes much modernising influences from the pure style. Tap dancing and fancy footwork abound, much more than in original forms. This is 'Irish Dance' for a modern world, and has been a huge success, even though it is not really traditional. The costumes and hairdo's are all part of the effort to modernise the image of the dance.

Why do we have a penchant for music? Maybe it's just our nature. We have always been a race who enjoyed lively story telling and informal gatherings. The Irish people in general are pretty outgoing and sociable bunch, and music plays a role in most social gatherings.

Where does the 'O' come from? Well "Mac' and 'O' in names from Ireland are simply the Irish way of saying 'son of' or 'daughter of', therefore Paddy MacNamara is simply Paddy 'son of' Namara, and Fiona O'Donnell is simply Fiona, daughter of Donal.

The flight from London to Dublin - about 1 hour.



Flem-ish - are we underrepresented at FT? Perhaps, but probably because most of us prefer socialising in the local pub than finding our way around the workings of our computers

Why are we described as lacking in intelligence in British jokes? Probably for the same reason that the Irish people tease the 'Kerry'men in our jokes. Somebody has to be the scapegoat, and every nation has their favourites to pick on. It's not really indicative of the relative intelligence of either party. Just as in the 'dumb blond' jokes.

Passport control is a mixed bag. Ireland has signed an agreement with many other European countries whereby passports are not supposed to be necessary when travelling between them, however in fact this is not always the case. Flying to England necessitates a passport, as does flying to most European destinations, however in the case of England the situation becomes a little murky. Because the Northern 6 counties form part of Britain and are not under the jurisdiction of the Republic, no passport is required travelling between Belfast, say, and London. From Belfast it is a two and a half hour drive to Dublin, and border controls are much easier to avoid if you have a good road map. Hence we have had our share of illegal immigrants making their way to our green land through the 'back door' as it were. The situation has been compounded also by the leniency of the Irish Birth Certificate laws, or lack thereof. Heretofore anybody born in Ireland was entitled to an Irish birth certificate and Irish Passport, and if my memory of this debate serves me well, their parents were also allowed these rights. We therefore had many people flying in on 'vacation' during their last weeks of pregnancy, their baby being born in Ireland, and bingo - European passports for the family for free. When I left Ireland a few years ago the goverment were trying to change the law, but I will have to check up and see what the progress was.

Any other questions still outstanding?

I am not Irish, but I've been to Ireland a number of times and think it's one of the best places on this earth to visit. Not only is the countryside beautiful and the cities chocked full of history and culture, but the people are among the nicest you would wish to find anywhere!

Oh, about the authors and writers - well Ireland is fondly known as the 'Land of Saints and Scholars'. The former because of the numbers of natives who turned to the priesthood and served time on various 'Missions' bringing christianity to many.

Education has always been very desirable to the Irish people, particularly during the times when it was outlawed. The 'Penal Laws' made it illegal for Irish people to attend school, and many 'hedge schools' were set up. This was a system whereby a learned person would meet informally behind hedges and in fields and other out of the way places and pass on whatever knowledge he could. It was, of course, illegal, but everybody concerned considered the risk worth the potential gain. As for many things the motto that 'the forbidden fruit is always sweeter' applied here. Because it was forbidden to us to go to school it became even more desirable, and those who got the opportunity to learn worked hard. This attitude has been encouraged, and most families wish for their children to attain a higher level of education than the parents themselves had.

Sometimes I think the Dutch and the French keep recycling stale
English jokes about the Irish and then apply them to the Belgians. In same way the Belgians recycle English jokes about the Scots and tell them about the Dutch. (The Dutch being miserly Scots that have crossed over.)
But o.k. jokes aside, is there any truth in Ireland being a country of emigration, and are there more Irish people outside the country than inside?
My feeling when in some parts of Ireland (Galway, the Burren, Aran islands) is as if I were walking around in a scenery of stone, water and silvery light and as if I were there the day after the World was created. Or alternatively as if all the people have walked out ages ago or have gone underground somehow.
Among the things I liked best in Ireland are the Galway oysters and the soda bread. In the bookshops I had the feeling they had a completely different assortment of books than you would find in the U.K.
As to the music-pubs those of Killarney were terribly commercial it seemed.
So I decided to avoid the touristy places, came across a member of Dé Danaan and joined in at a casual local singing-evening which was much more fun with hardly any tourists present.
Dublin seems to have changed a lot the last few years. Some places even had some kind of Parisian atmosphere. But I know
such things are subjective.
Driving around in Western Ireland is so different from driving here in Belgium. As if you had all the place for yourself. Even the occasional rain did not spoil the fun.

Hmmm...I've got quite a bit of Irish in me, (as least I look it, what with my fire-engine red hair and all,) so this thread has proved to be a bit interesting. Too bad I don't know much about my ancestors' way of life, but that's the way it is in America. It would take a ton of research; I've got English, French, German, and even a bit of Cherokee as well, but again it's mostly Irish.

I am however a great fan of Irish music, being a violinist and all. I must say that those guys certainly know how to play a fiddle! About half of the songs I pick up on are originally Irish.

This joke thing is new to me though. Are there really so many in that part of the world? I've never heard anything like that here. What exactly are they like? (I'm not sure I like the whole racial joke idea... )

Just an aside here on the typical 'red hair and freckles' image of the Irish person. Red hair is actually an 'import' from northern people like vikings etc. The real traditional colouring from Ireland is more likely to be dark brown/black hair and very fair or pale skin.

In reply to flem-ish's point about much of Ireland being almost deserted, it's hard to exaggerate the devastating long term effects of the potato famine and mass emigration.

From c. 1740-1800 and perhaps somewhat longer Dublin was generally regarded as the "second city" in the British Isles and a major metropolis. Moreover, c. 1800 Ireland had about one-third of the population of the British Isles; now it has just under 10%. Moreover, the decline has been absolute as well as relative. In c.1800 Ireland had a population of about 8 million, now the combined population of the Republic and N. Ireland is a little over 5 million.

Really Bloomsby? What part did the vikings play in Irish history? (I'm pretty clueless in regards to this topic )

I've got the snow-white skin thing going on as well, but if Vikings really contributed to the red hair stereotype maybe my skin is originates from them rather than a true Irishman.

All I know is that my great-grandmother came from Ireland.

Dublin was an important Viking trading-town around 1000 AD.
See http://viking.no/e/info-sheets/ireland/firehous.htm

I've got a few questions for our Irish members which I hope can be answered.

What is the language spoken most in Ireland ?
Which is the national game in Ireland ?

Which sport does Ireland excel in ?
What kind of technology do Ireland possess ?

Bringing this up for Linda.

I didn't realise you had been to Ireland Linda.
What sort of things did you get up to while you were over there?
Do you have any anecdotes? Tell us all.

Oops! Sorry, Exit! I didn't realize we had a thread on the country already. Thanks for bringing it up - it has great info in it!

Ireland was one of my favorite countries (not that I've been to many, but it's still one of my favorites!) to visit. Like I said, the people were absolutely delightful. For the most part, I don't think I met an unfriendly person during the whole time I was there. They all welcomed me to their country and treated me like they were glad to have me there.

I did go to the Waterford factory - probably one of my favorite memories. I was able to learn how the crystal was made and bought a couple of pieces to take with me.

Another memory was sitting in a little park reading "Jane Eyre." It's one of my favorite books, and it was so fun to sit there on a park bench reading. I remember the weather was really pretty that day, so it was an enjoyable afternoon. (I didn't say my memories were all that exciting! Just really fun and memorable for me! )

Oh, and of course, I did kiss the Blarney Stone - not a small task! Not only is it a long climb up the castle stairs to get there, but I didn't realize that you hang upside down off the SIDE of the castle and swing out to kiss it! The fact that I did that gives me some pride. To this day, I can't believe I had the guts to do it.

I remember green. I've always heard it said that you'll never see so many varieties of the color green until you've seen Ireland. I can agree!