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#202399 - Thu Nov 20 2003 11:25 PM JFK Questions
Linda1 Offline
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As most of us are aware, the 40th anniversary of the death of John F. Kennedy is coming up. I've been watching some of the documentaries, and I have some questions that I'm hoping someone can help me with.

Understand that I'm asking these questions out of a sincere desire to understand this event in history better. I'm not old enough to have experienced this myself, so I can only try to find serious, honest answers from people who were old enough at that time and from the history books. I'm not, at all, trying to be insensitive or facetious in asking these questions.

1) What was the Texas Schoolbook Depository? Was it a warehouse where they just stored old books? Were they new books? Was it a working building? In other words, were there actual employees that went there every day, or was it just an abandoned building?

2) Exactly where did the "conspiracy idea" originate? Could it simply have been one man who was angry at the President and killed him? End of story? I think I might be missing part of the story as to what leads some to think it was more involved or mysterious than that.

3) How did Lee Harvey Oswald die? No, I'm not trying to be funny. I know he was shot, but what was the actual cause of death? From what I understand, Ruby's bullet hit Oswald just left of his navel. So, it wasn't a direct hit to the heart. So, was the cause of death blood loss? Or, an organ that failed? Or, what?

4) This may be something that only she could have answered, but I'll ask it anyway. When the fatal shot was fired, Jackie immediately crawled out the back of the car. Why? It seems like the first instinct would have been to fall to the floor of the car as self-preservation. Maybe it was shock and fear that made her do that? This has just kind of always been something I've wondered about when I've seen those tapes and pictures.

5) Were there Secret Service around Presidents at that time? Or, was that something that started as a result of JFK? Was having Presidents ride in open cars a typical thing? In looking at some of the pictures of previous Presidents, I think it might have been. But, wasn't the thought of assassination there all that time, too? I mean, Archduke Ferdinand was way back in June of 1914, so it's not like this was totally out of the realm of possibility.

6) There was an officer handcuffed to Oswald when he was shot. Did he go down when Oswald collaped? Was anyone else hit by the same bullet, or did that bullet just stop inside Oswald? Why didn't it pass through him and hit someone else (much like the bullet that hit JFK went through him and also hit Connally)?

7) Why do they think there might have been a 4th shot fired? Did someone hear it? Is it on the Zabruder tape?

8) How did Ruby die? I've heard several stories, and I'm not sure which is correct.

9) Who was Officer Tippit? What relation would he have had to JFK that he'd be killed?

10) Why do they link Oswald with Tippit's death? Were there witnesses?

11) Oswald had a wife and at least one child. Where are they now? Are they still alive?

These are just a few of the questions I've been having. I probably will have some more as time goes on. But, there are just so many things that I don't quite understand and would like to know better. Thanks for any answers that you can help me with.



Edited by Linda1 (Thu Nov 20 2003 11:55 PM)
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#202400 - Fri Nov 21 2003 09:41 AM Re: JFK Questions
fjohn Offline
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Linda, the Texas Book Depository was a depository for text books and was being used as such with employees working there.
The conspiracy idea originated when the FBI investigated Oswald's background and his trip to the Soviet Union, his support of Cuba by passing out pro-Castro leaflets, his marriage to a Russian citizen and the investigation of his killer, Jack Ruby. Ruby had loose ties to organized crime. The report of a second or even third shooter on the grassy knoll; put it all together and you have a conspiracy, rather than one man acting alone.

Oswald did die as a direct result of the gunshot to his abdomen. I don't know what organ or vessel the bullet hit. No one else was injured by the bullet.

Jackie Kennedy climbed over the back of the limo to assist a secret service agent sprinting toward the car as it sped away to the hospital.

The Secret Service did not want Kennedy riding with the top down, but the President insisted. There were many agents around him.

The fourth shot was never explained. It may have been an echo from one of the first three.

Jack Ruby died, in prison, of cancer.

Officer Tippit saw Oswald acting strangely, tried to question him and Oswald shot him. I think that this occurred several blocks away and in a street.

As far as I know, Oswald's wife, Marina is still alive. I don't remember that they had children.

All of what I've said here is right off the top of my head, with no research. I was in Japan when Kennedy was killed. We heard about it on the radio at about 5 am. The events are very vivid in my mind, as everyone followed reports of the investigation for years afterward. I hope this helps.
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#202401 - Fri Nov 21 2003 03:56 PM Re: JFK Questions
sue943 Offline
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You have just made me feel old Linda. I don't remember what I was doing when he was shot, obviously being a Brit meant that a happening in America wouldn't register as much as something in the UK would have done (I can remember hearing about the death of our last king and I was only 4 at the time), what I do remember is the day of JFK's funeral, I watched it on television after returning from my friend's funeral, she was 16.
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#202402 - Fri Nov 21 2003 04:07 PM Re: JFK Questions
Linda1 Offline
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Have been looking around, and it seems that at least one of the questions I have is one that others have pondered as well - glad to know I'm not alone, at least!

See this thread for a discussion on why Tippit stopped Oswald.

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#202403 - Sat Nov 22 2003 06:54 AM Re: JFK Questions
Gatsby722 Offline
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I think I'm learning something on this one. I had always heard that Jackie was trying to retrieve the missing part(s) of her shot husband's head as she jumped towards the back of the convertible. Probably just a myth. No one has, unless I'm reading too fast, addressed the trajectory of the bullets so far. That might make for a further interesting point. (I was only in first grade when this all happened and reading the history of it is in the power of those who write about it...I never got all the facts).
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#202404 - Sat Nov 22 2003 07:26 AM Re: JFK Questions
Roses4u Offline
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Linda you may find this site interesting. It is Marina talking to Oprah. It is 1996 so it is a little old, sorry.

Marina talks.
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#202405 - Sat Nov 22 2003 10:23 AM Re: JFK Questions
Linda1 Offline
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Thanks for the article! I'm in the process of reading it now, and it looks very interesting!

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#202406 - Sat Nov 22 2003 02:18 PM Re: JFK Questions
fjohn Offline
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Gatsby, the exact trajectory of the bullets was kind of iffy since, after the first shot, the President lurched forward, then backward. One of them hit the arm of Texas Governor John Connolly (sp?) maybe after passing through the President.
I don't remember if the bullet fragments recovered could be matched to the rifle used by Oswald.
As an aside, Oswald hid the rifle among some packing material and it took quite awhile for the police to find it.
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#202407 - Sat Nov 22 2003 06:42 PM Re: JFK Questions
chelseabelle Offline
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A new computer animation was generated to exactly match the Zapruder film of the shooting. The new technology allows the President's car to be viewed from all angles, and better establish the trajectory of the bullets. Using this technique, it does appear that all of the shots came from the Book Depository building and that Oswald was the lone assassin.
This was all discussed on ABC World News this week and you can read about it here:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/WNT/WorldNewsTonight/jfk_beyond_conspiracy-1.html

Forty years later, and still so many unanswered questions.
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#202408 - Sat Nov 22 2003 07:52 PM Re: JFK Questions
Uroborus Offline
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Quote:

I think I'm learning something on this one. I had always heard that Jackie was trying to retrieve the missing part(s) of her shot husband's head as she jumped towards the back of the convertible. Probably just a myth. No one has, unless I'm reading too fast, addressed the trajectory of the bullets so far. That might make for a further interesting point. (I was only in first grade when this all happened and reading the history of it is in the power of those who write about it...I never got all the facts).




Gatsby, the part about Jackie and the head fragment is not a myth. I've seen the film from beginning to end countless times, and Jackie clearly climbs up over the seat onto the back of the car and grabs a piece of JFK's head from the trunk lid.
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#202409 - Sat Nov 22 2003 09:05 PM Re: JFK Questions
Linda1 Offline
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Yeah, but that still doesn't really make sense, though! The self-preservation part of a person is extremely strong. To the point that it overrides almost anything else. If she was hearing 3 shots fired, the natural tendency, even as much as she may have loved John, would have been to fall to the ground and protect herself. At this point, she's seen 2 men get hit - one of whom was hit in the head and killing him. She doesn't know that another shot isn't coming or that the shots weren't meant for her (good guess that they weren't, of course, but still) and the next one would make its mark in her.

I'm not saying that she wasn't trying to do as you said. But, it just seems like such an odd thing to do. It's simply not human nature at all.

And, I'm still not sure that I'm of the opinion that it was some huge conspiracy. Unless I'm still missing something. I think that the tendency is always there for us to assume something huge is going on. But, what if Oswald was a lone man who hated the President and simply shot him? The end? What if UFOs are really just weather balloons? What if some log was floating in the water in a lake in Scotland that just kinda, sorta looked like a monster? I know that the thoughts of "what if it's something really big, and the government is trying to hide something from us?!" is strong, but could it just have been a single, angry man that did it? I guess what I'm asking for are some of the really compelling reasons why this can't be the case. I've never seen Stone's movie, so maybe that's where I'm missing out. Yes, Oswald was in Russia for a time. And, he did marry a Russian woman. But, is that it?

Thanks for all the responses here, by the way. I do appreciate your helping me to understand this better. It's not really a subject we covered in depth back when I was in school, for some reason. At least, not to the point that I felt that I understood it completely.

And, please trust me when I say that I'm not attempting to argue with any of you with my post here. I'm just trying to get a better grasp on it and react with the questions I still have!

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#202410 - Sat Nov 22 2003 09:38 PM Re: JFK Questions
Chris1013 Offline
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I just found this article on the internet. It is about an interview with Lee Harvey Oswald's brother, who says that there was no conspiracy, but that his brother just wanted to get attention. The article is not too detailed, but I thought it be interesting anyway.
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#202411 - Sat Nov 22 2003 10:10 PM Re: JFK Questions
Chris1013 Offline
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I found something else. The JFK assassination has its own homepage, which can be found here.
This web site includes a description of the events at Dealy Plaza, information about the conspiracy (especially about the mysterious "Umbrella Man"), the report and hearings by the Warren Commission, as well as a number of links and book titles dealing with the Kennedy assassination.

So Linda, I'm not sure if you find the answers to your questions on that page (maybe try some of the links provided there. I haven't done that yet), but it's the same as with the other link I just gave you: I think it's interesting to read and there are so many unanswered questions regarding this topic, that I doubt that you'll find a definite answer anywhere
I think this is a very interesting part of history, and so I try to read about several different explanations and then try to make up my own mind
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#202412 - Sun Nov 23 2003 03:31 AM Re: JFK Questions
Uroborus Offline
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Quote:

Linda:Yeah, but that still doesn't really make sense, though! The self-preservation part of a person is extremely strong. To the point that it overrides almost anything else. If she was hearing 3 shots fired, the natural tendency, even as much as she may have loved John, would have been to fall to the ground and protect herself. At this point, she's seen 2 men get hit - one of whom was hit in the head and killing him. She doesn't know that another shot isn't coming or that the shots weren't meant for her (good guess that they weren't, of course, but still) and the next one would make its mark in her.

I'm not saying that she wasn't trying to do as you said. But, it just seems like such an odd thing to do. It's simply not human nature at all.




Your point is well taken Linda, but keep in mind that people often do some really odd things in a crisis situation. By all accounts, Jackie really did love John, and to see him so grievously wounded must have been both shocking and surreal. At the time, it is quite possible that in her mind she thought it was very important to recover those skull fragments. In addition, we really don't know how loud the gunshots were from her vantage point. Also, it is very likely that she didn't even know that the man in the front seat was hit at all, as even he has recounted that he didn't realize he was hit right away.

Also, oddly enough John wasn't killed instantly. The doctor that treated him recently broke his long silence, and according to him Kennedy was still breathing when the doctor arrived at the hospital, minutes after Kennedy himself arrived! They tried to keep his heart going, but the wounds were just too grave. Given this, some part of Jackie may have thought that John still had a chance.

In any event, the filmed evidence speaks for itself. As I indicated in my above post, I have seen the film in its entirety many times. Whether or not she was trying to grab those skull pieces (and it appears to me that it is quite clear that she did) she definitely climbs out onto the trunk of the car. She doesn't duck or hide at all.

I agree that it was an odd, nightmarishly tragic response, but it appears to be what happened that day.


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#202413 - Sun Nov 23 2003 04:39 AM Re: JFK Questions
Gatsby722 Offline
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First of all I have to say I hope this thread sticks around for a while; it's fascinating to read what everyone knows or thinks.

Second thing: Jackie is reported to have said, upon the initial wound, that: "They've killed the President". If that, in fact, happened it seems a very odd thing to say, don't you think? I'm sure all sorts of things were said during those chaotic moments but the plurality of that alleged statement always puzzled me. I wonder who the "they" is she was referring to? There's probably no clear cut answer to that now, but it certainly has fueled that conspiracy theory stuff.

Oh, and Linda, catch Stone's movie "JFK" when you get a chance (since you said you hadn't seen it yet...). It's good entertainment and actually a pretty good film but, yikes, talk about 'creating' facts. It is, though, "wild" enough to (maybe, in part ) spark further questions. It certainly did in me.
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#202414 - Sun Nov 23 2003 04:51 AM Re: JFK Questions
chelseabelle Offline
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The explanation I have always heard for Mrs Kennedy's climbing onto the trunk of the car was that she was trying to get to the Secret Service who were riding in the car behind the President, and the Zapruder film does show her reaching her arm out toward them. So, in some way, she was being self-protective since she was trying to get help. Her immediate instinct appears to have been to try to get aid for her husband, and she was turning toward the only source of help she had available at that moment, the Secret Service. Her husband's welfare was seemingly more important to her than her own--which reflects not only her love for him, but also her awareness of the fact that he was the President.

Mrs Kennedy's dignity, stoicism, and commanding presence at that time, and throughout the days that followed, was a major factor in helping many Americans to deal with their grief over the assassination. I clearly remember all of these events, and Mrs Kennedy's somber composure, despite her overwhelming grief, was nothing short of awesome. Even the fact that she could muster the strength to stand next to Johnson when he took the oath of office was genuinely remarkable. She really did become a national icon and a symbol of great strength and dignity because of her behavior in the days that followed the shooting. Her impact on everyone in the country was enormous and enduring.
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#202415 - Sun Nov 23 2003 05:26 AM Re: JFK Questions
Gatsby722 Offline
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I agree, chelseabelle. Jackie was a paramount woman, top to bottom. But, all of her virtues aside, it is really hard to know her reactions at that horrible event. But I think, given her stoicism and poise, her first reaction was probably to grab the pieces of her husband's head in hopes of "putting him back together again". But we can only guess...
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#202416 - Sun Nov 23 2003 10:28 AM Re: JFK Questions
fjohn Offline
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I was channel surfing last night and came upon an interview with a doctor who treated the President. He said that, as a trauma surgeon, his priorities were to establish an airway to make sure the President was breathing, then to keep his heart working, then to check his injuries. The President was breathing intermittently and his heart was rapidly failing.
When he saw Kennedy's skull injury, he knew that Kennedy would not survive although the surgical team kept working. Another doctor, a neurologist, pronounced him dead about 20 minutes later.
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#202417 - Sun Nov 23 2003 02:28 PM Re: JFK Questions
rogue Offline
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I believe a 4th shot was fired almost simultaneously as the 2nd or 3rd shot, and most likely from the grassy knoll or atop the county records building. Witnesses that day have said they heard anywhere from 3 to 5 shots fired.

I'm not convinced Oswald shot Tippit. Some witnesses describe someone other than Oswald as shooting Tippit.

We'll probably never know who really shot JFK or who was involved in a conspiracy to murder him. The mainstream US press believes Oswald did it alone and what the mainstream US press believes usually goes down as history unchallenged.

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#202418 - Mon Nov 24 2003 11:11 AM Re: JFK Questions
root17 Offline
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Linda1, here is my understanding for some of your questions:

1. The Texas Schoolbook Depository was a working, warehouse-like building with employees that received new books in bulk from printers (packaged in cardboard cartons). The employees would then break up a shipment into quantities for distribution to individual schools in the Dallas school district. Oswald moved some cartoons to create a "snipers perch" that shielded other employees from seeing him while he waited. He brought his rifle to work wrapped and told fellow workers they were curtain rods he was taking to have repaired.

2. The Warren Commission report on the assassination (commissioned by U.S. President Lyndon B. Johnson) was quite comprehensive in its investigation and findings, but technology of the day left several questions unanswered. Controversial investigative author Mark Lane published a book titled "Rush to Judgement" that challenged Commission findings and conspiracy theories were off and running. Fjohn (in his Nov 21 post) noted some other factors: Oswald's living for a time in the Soviet Union, his support of Cuba by passing out pro-Castro leaflets, his marriage to a Russian woman, and the loose ties Jack Ruby had to organized crime. The mob apparently felt JFK had betrayed them after helping him win the election (notably in Chicago) and then Attorney General RFK's crackdown on organized crime. An anti-conspiracy finding was that Oswald had attempted a similar assassination in April 1963 on General Edwin Walker, a virulent anti-Communist. It may have been that Oswald, an unimportant figure, simply wanted to make his mark in history by assassinating somebody important.

Here is the synopsis from a PBS Frontlines program:
"When Oswald didn't come home on the night of April 10, 1963, Marina went into his study -- which he had told her never to enter -- and found this note, written in Russian. That night Oswald had attempted to assassinate General Edwin Walker, a virulent anti-Communist. Oswald had prepared a book of operations for the plan, including photos of Walker's house, the place where he would hide the rifle, maps, and documentation that laid out his reasons for killing Walker. Oswald viewed Walker as a potential Hitler and saw himself leaving a mark on history if he were to kill Walker.

The Walker case would not be resolved until after the Kennedy assassination, when Marina Oswald told her story and the Walker bullet was linked to Oswald's rifle. No co-conspirators were ever identified."

5. There were Secret Service agents running alongside the President's limousine (Rufus Youngbood is a now-retired one who has talked about his experiences). I think most politicians are aware of the possibility of assassination, but feel they need to connect with the public. I believe JFK was the last U.S. President to use an open limousine.

7. There was an open microphone on one of the motorcycles that accompanied JFK, and later examination of the audiotapes of what it captured had a noise that sounded like a gunshot. Some people think it was just the backfire of another motorcycle. The "magic bullet" theory claims one bullet could not have struck both JFK (in the back seat) and Governor John Connolly (in the front seat) since they were struck so close together in timing and were difficult to explain with a straight-line bullet path. However, like Chelseabelle noted, a new computer animation that exactly matches the Zapruder film of the shooting shows the trajectory of the bullets and notes Connolly was seated lower than JFK and was twisted to the window opening. It appears (at least to me) that all of the shots came from the Book Depository building and that Oswald was the lone assassin.


Edited by root17 (Mon Nov 24 2003 11:29 AM)
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#202419 - Tue Nov 25 2003 10:52 PM Re: JFK Questions
Jax Offline
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I remember exactly where was when I heard of the shooting. I was a Junior in school and we were at an afternoon school basket ball game.

1.The school book depository was where Oswald was employed at the time of the shooting. He had only been there a short time.
2. There are several places to find this info other than the conspiracy fanatics. Kennedy had plenty of enemies, and his Vice-President was one of them. One good book to start with might be Texas looks at Lyndon if you can still find it in print. Any way a lot of Texans certainly though LBJ had something to do with it.
3. From what the doctors said it sounded like blood loss.
5.Perhaps it was a time of innocents. And Kennedy knew his strong points as a politician.
Contrary to what many think today, there is a very good chance he would not have been re-elected.
6. I am pretty sure the bullet that killed Oswald was a 38. It has sufficient power to kill a man but not pass through. The shot that killed JFK was from a high powered rifle. It has the power to literally make a water melon explode. And that is the theory with JFK's head being thrown backwards as the front part is blown forwards.
10. The bullet that killed the Officer was matched from a hand gun purchased by Oswald.

The thing that make me wonder if there was a second shooter is the fact that the first shot completely missed, and he had all kinds of time to aim yet the 2nd and 3rd fired in haste were dead on.
And at a time when it was almost impossible for an American to go to Russia, it does seem strange that Oswald had no trouble. This was the height of the cold war, Cuban missile crisis etc.
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#202420 - Sat Dec 13 2003 11:33 AM Re: JFK Questions
Jar Offline
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A new first. On the exact spot where JFK was assassinated is an X. It is kept there for researchers and students. Yesterday for the first time a person committed suicide on the X. Evidently he just laid down, put his head on the X and pulled the trigger. His car was found nearby with emergency flashers on and keys in the ignition. What possessed the man (aged 40-50)to do this is unknown.
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#202421 - Thu Jun 24 2004 08:32 AM Re: JFK Questions
_elbereth_ Offline
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I studied JFK a few years ago, and from what I can gather, the whole conspiracy theory comes from a lot of factors, such as witnesses hearing shots coming from the grassy knoll, sightings of a man running away from the grassy knoll and the fact that the gun Oswald used was a World War II relic and he couldnt have fired all of the shots in the time they were fired in.

There are other creepy things which suggest a coverup as well; photos of JFK's body show a nice neat little bullethole in his skull, but in the video footage you can see that some of his skull was actually blown away, Lee Harvey Oswald maintained his innocence, but surely if you went to the trouble of assassinating someone, you'd want the world to know you did it??, Oswald was then shot by Jack Ruby, who died of cancer not long after, so neither of them could talk, and if you want to be really cynical, the very fact that Oswald was married to a Russian, had actually lived in Russia, and had Communist ties made him a good scapegoat for the assassination.

I saw a bit of a documentary recently, which showed a photo that a man had taken of the people he was with on the day of the assassination. He happened to be facing the grassy knoll when he took the photo, and in the really really enlarged background you can see a man wearing a hat and sunglasses standing behind the knoll, and they think this was the second gunman. It might be a coincidence, but its still intriguing!

Do you think we will ever know for sure who did it, and why??

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#202422 - Wed Jun 30 2004 09:01 PM Re: JFK Questions
BaronTR Offline
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An always interesting topic. Although I have no memory of the assasination, since I was 2 1/2, I have studied the subject in some detail as I have lived within 20 miles of Dealy Plaza all my life, including reading the Warren commission report. 2 thoughts I've concluded about this. One. If conspiracy theorists were inventing a patsy, they'd never create Oswald because his background of being an ex-marine, defector, pro and anti Casto person is just too ridiculous to be true. Two. Every element of the Warren commission report has been demonstrated that it could have happened between different programs and books. Example: A recent show on the Discovery Channel had a person the same age and build of Oswald walk through a similar warehouse to see if he could get to the 2nd floor lunchroom from the 6th floor within 90 seconds. He did it in 47 seconds without running. I think that the conspiracy theories start with the idea that it's unappealing to think that a confused 20 something guy could kill the president by himself. People start looking for more, and if you want it to be true, you'll find it.

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#202423 - Thu Jul 01 2004 11:14 AM Re: JFK Questions
DLHenry Offline
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I have done a lot of reading and studying on the Kennedy assainations. I won't get into my ideas about who the killer was or why they did it. But I can tell you, we will never truly know who did it, because no one alive knows. For now we can only create theorys about the most likely person.

Ha, perhaps a model killed him? Like in Zoolander...that'd be funny, but not really...
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