#202424 - Thu Jul 01 2004 03:00 PM
Re: JFK Questions
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Multiloquent
Registered: Mon Dec 06 1999
Posts: 2742
Loc: Wyoming USA Way Out West
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Lee Harvey Oswald killed John F. Kennedy.
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#202425 - Thu Jul 01 2004 07:53 PM
Re: JFK Questions
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Enthusiast
Registered: Fri May 14 2004
Posts: 359
Loc: Palmer Alaska USA
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You cannot prove that. If you can prove to me that he did, I will agree with you and admit I was wrong, but as it is, I don't think you can!
Edited by theoryman14 (Thu Jul 01 2004 07:57 PM)
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#202426 - Thu Jul 01 2004 09:38 PM
Re: JFK Questions
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Multiloquent
Registered: Mon Dec 06 1999
Posts: 2742
Loc: Wyoming USA Way Out West
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The history of John Kennedy's assassination has been covered in the smallest detail; every avenue of conspiracy theory has been covered. His unfortunate and untimely death was caused by one man and one man only.
The proof that you require is included in many thousands of documents, witness accounts, court procedings, film analyses, ad infinitum. What other possible evidence would anyone have to show you to make you believe it?
I would like to ask you, theoryman14, how old you were at that time, the time of the assassination, and where you were at that time? I only ask because I was 28 years old when the President was killed and I remember the events and subsequent investigation very vividly. I would like to know why you think that Lee Harvey Oswald was not the lone assassin.
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Some days it just doesn't seem worth trying to chew through the restraints.
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#202427 - Fri Jul 02 2004 01:40 AM
Re: JFK Questions
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Enthusiast
Registered: Fri May 14 2004
Posts: 359
Loc: Palmer Alaska USA
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I do agree that all evidence points directly towards him, him being Lee Harvey Oswald. BUT there is no way you can prove he wasn't set up, as he is dead...
I'm not saying he did not do it, I'm saying that it might not have been him...
By the way, I was not insulting you in any way, and I was not alive then, but I have studied every aspect of every aspect of the events.
You were there? want to tell me about it. I would be very interested.
No hard feelings, Theoryman14
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#202428 - Fri Jul 02 2004 07:30 AM
Re: JFK Questions
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Multiloquent
Registered: Mon Dec 06 1999
Posts: 2742
Loc: Wyoming USA Way Out West
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No apology necessary, theoryman14. I didn't take any of your comments as an insult, simply as questions about the assassination. Us old fogeys lived through those days with the investigations going on for years. JFK has been dead for almost 40 years and conspiricies still surface every now and then simply because people love a mystery, no matter how far fetched the plot. The History Channel runs some of these stories occasionally, complete with explanation about how they got started and why they are not true.
I was stationed in Japan at the time and we were put on full alert because we all thought that the Russians had a hand in JFK's death. There are many stories by credible historians about the event. I'm sure your local library, and even the Internet, have a wealth of information.
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Some days it just doesn't seem worth trying to chew through the restraints.
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#202429 - Fri Jul 02 2004 07:17 PM
Re: JFK Questions
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Enthusiast
Registered: Fri May 14 2004
Posts: 359
Loc: Palmer Alaska USA
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Sadly, my local library has almost nothing on the assassination, I've had to go out of town to research this kind of thing.
I have found a whole bunch of information on the web in the past.
Regards, Theoryman14
P.S. How old are you?
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#202430 - Sun Jul 04 2004 09:15 PM
Re: JFK Questions
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Explorer
Registered: Tue Jan 25 2000
Posts: 95
Loc: earth
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Explain the trajectory of the magic bullet. I don't doubt thaqt LHO had something to do with it. He was not alone though. If you take the Warren commisoion findings at face value, you are one of then lucky few to have never worked for the federal government.
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#202431 - Wed Jul 07 2004 04:50 PM
Re: JFK Questions
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Enthusiast
Registered: Fri May 14 2004
Posts: 359
Loc: Palmer Alaska USA
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I heard that Oswald was found with a relic shotgun that could not have fired more than one shot in the time allotted. I'm not sure if this is true...
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#202432 - Sun Dec 19 2004 12:44 PM
Re: JFK Questions
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Learning the ropes...
Registered: Sat Dec 18 2004
Posts: 2
Loc: Israel
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Hello everybody Before I read a litle deeper into the subject I was into conspiracy theories. That's how people are. They just don't like the fact everything can be so simple. Neither did I. I couldn't believe this confused young fellow could have possibly done it, I even sympathized him. But today I have to admit that I was wrong. Everything is against this guy, whether I like it or not. People asking questions on forums about it all-there are answers everywhere, all you have to do is to read. There is plenty of info already dug up for us, ready to be swallowed. By the way LHO did have children-2 daughters. June and Rachael, but I guess not many people know of who they are now, they cover their identity. As to LHO's wife-Marina Porter, and only living brother-Robert, I easily found info on them through Netscape white pages. Netscape white pages Marina still lives in Dallas area- Marina Porter 2409 Magnolia Leaf Ln Flower Mound, TX 750224929 Phone: 972-355-2822 And Robert lives in Wichita Falls, TX- Robt L Oswald 2303 Antigua Wichita Falls, TX 763084951 Phone: 940-691-3519 By the way, Robert thinks that LHO did it, and did it alone. He wishes it was otherwise, but there are facts. Yesterday I found a site with a 3 hours online program on LHO. Very interesting, a must to everyone who's interested in the topic- Who was Lee Harvey Oswald? . The only thing is that some moments of the program can't be shown online. But otherwise it was terrific. Hope that helps a little.
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#202433 - Sun Dec 19 2004 02:14 PM
Re: JFK Questions
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Forum Champion
Registered: Tue Jul 10 2001
Posts: 6168
Loc: Philadelphia Pennsylvania USA
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Hello Morbid,
Did it ever occur to you that Robert Oswald and Marina are believing the US government's lies?
There is evidence that Oswald was exactly what he claimed he was...a patsy.
Key pieces of evidence are:
1.) Five days before the murder of John F. Kennedy, the New Orleans FBI Office received a message, via telex, that the President would be killed in Dallas at the end of the week. This warning was sent to all the FBI offices in the United States, but the Secret Service did not receive any warning. Amazingly, after the murder, the original telex message was removed from the file drawers, and more amazingly, in every FBI office in the country every copy of the warning was destroyed. (Now I wonder who could have sent that warning?)
2.) An hour before the murder, Julia Ann Mercer was driving west past the grassy knoll. She found herself caught in heavy traffic and stopped right next to a green pickup truck. She saw a man taking a rifle out of the bed of the truck, and walk up the steep incline onto the grassy knoll. At first she thought the men were Secret Service, and thought to herself 'how secret are they?', but the day after the assassination she reported the incident to Dallas' FBI office and to the Dallas Sheriff's office. Neither office took what she said seriously. After Lee Harvey Oswald was murdered on national television, she was astonished when she saw that the person who killed him was Jack Ruby. She immediately went back to the FBI office and the Sheriff's office and told them that the driver of the green pickup truck was the same man who just shot Lee Harvey Oswald. Again, she wasn't taken seriously. To make matters worse, Julia Ann Mercer wasn't even interviewed by the Warren Commission when they 'investigated' the murder of the President. If Mercer had seen Ruby an hour before the assassination, one could rightly assume that he was involved with the murder of the President. (Why wasn't Miss Mercer interviewed by the Warren Commission? Could it be that what she saw was damaging to the 'lone nut' theory?)
3.) About 10-15 minutes prior the assassination, Lee Bowers, the switchman for the railroad yard, had seen a car, being driven by an unfamiliar man, roaming around the railroad yard behind the grassy knoll. To Bowers, the man driving appeared to be speaking into a hand held walkie talkie. A few minutes before the murder, Bowers, was in his glassed-in tower, 14 feet above the yard. He had a perfect view of the grassy knoll. He observed two men, whom he did not recognize, standing behind the picket fence on the knoll, watching the approaching motorcade. Soon after, Bowers heard shots and saw a cloud of smoke near the picket fence. He then observed the two men running to a car and driving away, fast. Bowers told the FBI office and the Sheriff's office, but they thought he was mistaken. During the Warren Commission, Bowers testified truthfully to what he saw, but in the actual report, his testimony was not what he had said. (Why was Bowers' testimony fabricated in the Warren Commission Report? What could have been so secretive that our government resorted to distorting a man's honest testimony about what he saw the day one of the greatest leaders of our time was murdered?)
4.) J. C. Price signed an affidavit and testified at the Warren Commission that he saw a man running towards the railroad siding, immediately following the volley of shots that were fired at the passing motorcade. Price said that the man, whom he saw running, was carrying in his hand something that appeared to be a headpiece. If Lee Harvey Oswald was indeed the 'lone assassin,' what did these witnesses really see? If Oswald was in the Texas Schoolbook Depository he couldn't have been at the picket fence, the railroad yard, or the grassy knoll. Considering the fact that Oswald was only one person, he couldn't have been in more than one place at one time.
5.) Joseph Smith, a police officer with the Dallas police department and a motorcycle escort in the motorcade, ran up the embankment towards the picket fence after the shots rang out. When he got to the area where the smoke from the rifles was clearing, he smelled the odor of gun powder and saw dozens of footprints in the dirt. He was stopped from examining the area further by men who claimed they were Secret Service. Who were the men who stopped Smith? Considering the fact that all of the Secret Service were accounted for, one could assume that the men who claimed they were Secret Service was part of the coup d'etat that snuffed out the life the President.
6.) James Tague was standing under the Triple Underpass, watching the motorcade making its way down Elm Street. Just as the motorcade was half way between the Triple Underpass and the Texas Schoolbook Depository, he heard what he thought was a car backfiring. In that instant something hit him in the face, after it bounced off one of the dividers of the Underpass. The Triple Underpass was about 50-75 feet away from the Texas Schoolbook Depository, and about 20-25 feet away from the President's limousine. Tague was hit by the second bullet that was meant for the President. When Tague heard the shots, he felt they were coming from the Daltex building and the grassy knoll. His testimony, which was in the Warren Commission report, was not at all what he told the Commission. The report said that he was closer to the Texas Schoolbook Depository, when in fact he wasn't. Since Tague had no reason to lie, and since Oswald was considered by the Marines to be a mediocre shot, how could a bullet, supposedly fired by Oswald, make it past the motorcade to the Triple Underpass where a fragment hit Tague in the face?
7.) Abraham Zapruder, a dress maker in Dallas, was standing on an abutment with his secretary, filming the motorcade. Even though he heard the shots, Zapruder didn't stop filming. His film was the only one that showed from which direction the bullets actually came. The 8 mm film clearly shows President Kennedy and Governor Connolly looking around after the first shot, which missed them entirely. The film then shows the President putting his hands to his throat after being shot from the front. Then it shows part of the President's head being blown away after he was hit from behind. Zapruder knew he caught something of importance, and that same day he had the film developed and had several copies made. He then brought it home and watched it. Zapruder knew that he had to give a copy to the FBI. The FBI showed the film to the Warren Commission, where the Commission said that the film proved that the President was shot from behind. The Commission also said that this validated that Lee Harvey Oswald was the 'lone assassin.' In 1969, during the State of Louisiana Vs. Clay Shaw, the Zapruder film was shown to the public for the first time, after being locked in a vault at "Time-Life" magazine by the FBI. If the Zapruder film actually showed that the President was murdered by a lone assassin, why did our government feel it was necessary to have the film locked away? I believe that the only reason that the film was locked away was because the film actually showed that there was more than one assassin that day in Dallas. I believe that the film showed that there truly was a coup d'etat. The film actually shows that Oswald was telling the truth when he said he was a patsy.
8.) On the same day that the President was murdered, Jack Martin was pistol whipped with a .357 Magnum by Guy Banister. Banister was a private investigator and was a former member of the FBI. Jack Martin called the police and told them that Banister assaulted him over some telephone bills. Three years after the assassination, New Orleans District Attorney, Jim Garrison, began looking into the assassination. He interviewed Martin about the pistol whipping on the day of the assassination. Martin told Garrison that he and Banister were drinking that afternoon at Katzenjammer's bar. They then walked back to Banister's office on 531 Lafayette Street. When they got inside the office Banister began having a fit and accusing Martin of going through his personal files. Martin denied doing that and became angry. He then told Banister that he better not talk to him that way because he remembered all the people who were coming and going in the office that summer. Banister flew off the handle and pistol whipped him. When Garrison asked Martin who the people were that were seen coming and going in Banister's office, Martin told him there were a lot Cubans, David Ferrie, and Lee Harvey Oswald. Martin also said that he remembered a tall gray headed man, who seemed to be a socialite, but that he couldn't recall his name. Martin told Garrison that Ferrie practically lived at Banister's office, helping to train Cubans for an invasion of Cuba. Martin also told Garrison that Oswald usually kept to himself and used one of the building addresses, 544 Camp Street, for a leaflet he was distributing called "Fair Play For Cuba." When Garrison asked Martin what exactly was going on in Banister's office, Martin said he couldn't answer that. And when Garrison asked him what the problem was, Martin said that the problem was that if he kept talking the federal government would be on his back. He told Garrison that if he talked about what went on in Banister's office in the summer of 1963, he would be dead. The same day that Garrison interviewed Martin, he went back to where Banister's office used to be. He saw the address of 531 Lafayette Street, and to his amazement, the building had another address, 544 Camp Street.
9.) An hour after John F. Kennedy was murdered, David Ferrie, well known for his Anti-Castro beliefs, drove to Houston, TX. When questioned by Jim Garrison about why he drove to Houston on one of the saddest days in American History, Ferrie said that he decided on a whim to go ice skating. Garrison questioned that statement by asking Ferrie why he wanted to go ice skating during one of the worst thunderstorms in Texas. Ferrie, realizing that he was caught in a lie, changed his story. Ferrie told Garrison that he was going to go ice skating, but decided against it. He said he met up with some friends and that they drove to Galveston to go duck hunting and that some of his friends had bagged a few ducks. Garrison said that he talked to some of Ferrie's friends and found out that none of them had guns. So he asked Ferrie how could they go hunting without guns and bag some ducks? Ferrie then changed his story yet again. Saying that he and his friends intended to go duck hunting, but realized when they got there that they didn't have their guns. Garrison told Ferrie that his story was not believable, he said Ferrie would be held over for questioning by the FBI for possible involvement in the assassination of the President. The next day, however, Garrison was mortified to find out that the FBI had released Ferrie, saying that there wasn't enough evidence to hold him. It was a well known fact that Ferrie and Banister worked together in training Cuban exiles during the Bay of Pigs, but that all went for naught when Kennedy pulled out of Cuba. Banister and Ferrie continued to train Cuban exiles during the summer of 1963. It was also well known, mostly in the homosexual community, that Ferrie had ideas about how to assassinate the President. During the summer of 1963, Oswald came to know Ferrie, Banister, and Bertrand. When Ferrie would talk to Banister and Bertrand about how to murder the President, Oswald would just listen, not saying a word. Could the reason for why Oswald didn't say a word was that he knew he would be the patsy? Considering the fact that he never said a word during Ferrie's tirades, Oswald must have known that they would need a scapegoat and he knew that he would it.
10.) In 1959, while in the Marines, Lee Harvey Oswald had taken a Russian exam. According to Colonel Allison G. Folsom, Jr., Oswald had done poorly on the exam, getting only two more Russian words right than he got wrong. It is interesting to note that, in 1978 according to James A. Wilcott, a former CIA finance officer, had told the House Select Committee on Assassinations that Oswald was recruited from the military by the CIA. The purpose of Oswald's being recruited by the CIA was so he could be a double agent in the USSR. When Oswald arrived in Moscow on October 16, 1959, he had a series of contacts with Soviet officials. The soviets were cautious about the American, who didn't just leave his country behind, but also brought the promise of secrets of American anti-aircraft technology. Two weeks after he arrived, Oswald made an appearance at the American Embassy. He handed over his passport and a letter that ended with his allegiance to the USSR. In February 1961, after a mere 15 months in the USSR, Oswald met Marina Prusakova, who was the niece of a lieutenant colonel in the Soviet Union's domestic intelligence service. Oswald and Marina were married in April 1961, two months after they met. When Oswald decided to return to America, neither the United States government or the Russian government objected to his return or to his bringing Marina with him. Interestingly, the State Department wholeheartedly approved Oswald's return, claiming that he didn't expatriate himself by his actions upon arriving in Moscow. The State Department authorized the American Embassy in Moscow to lend Oswald money so he could return to America. Such a load cannot be made unless the recipient's loyalty to the United States has been established beyond any doubt. Considering Oswald's actions upon arriving in Moscow, how could the United States government claim that he showed his loyalty beyond any doubt? In my opinion the only reason that our government didn't have any doubts was because Oswald was a double agent.
11.) At 1:15 pm, a man, whom some people have identified as Lee Harvey Oswald, was walking near Tenth Street and Patton Avenue when a police officer called him over. When the man, somewhat identified as Oswald, walked over to Officer J.D. Tippit, the man shot Tippit three times in the chest, then ran away. Although some people have identified the man as Oswald, many other witnesses claim that the man was not Oswald. Which is it? Clearly, if Oswald had not murdered Tippit, then who did? Was it all a part of a conspiracy?
12.) Around 3:00 PM, Oswald was arrested by Dallas policemen while in the Dallas Theatre. As soon as the police approached Oswald, he said "I am not resisting arrest, I am not resisting arrest." By that time, television news crews were waiting outside to film the arrest of the man, whom they believed, was guilty of assassinating the President. Once Oswald got outside he kept saying, "I'm just a patsy." Oswald never stopped proclaiming his innocence. Was Oswald a patsy like he claimed? Or was he really the assassin?
13.) The House Select Committee on Assassinations never named, or verified, Oswald as the assassin, or as one of the gunmen. Since the depth of the conspiracy was unknown and never determined. Also, Robert Groden, the Committee's staff photographer and consultant, enhanced a copy of the Zapruder film, and testified that at least nine shots were fired from at least 3 or 4 different locations. He also said that, according the film, none of the shots came from the Texas Schoolbook Depository. If Groden is to be believed, then how could Oswald physically assassinate Kennedy?
14.) Sixty seconds after the assassination, motorcycle police officer, Marion Baker, observed Oswald on the second floor of the Depository, in the breakroom. According to Baker, Oswald had a can of soda in his hand, was relaxed, and was not sweating. Baker's account of seeing Oswald greatly differs from the Warren Commission. The Commission claimed that within that sixty seconds Oswald had descended from the sixth floor by foot, because the elevator was broken that day. They also claimed that Oswald had to find change, operate the machine, and begin drinking the soda before Barker arrived. If the Commission is to be believed, then Oswald would have had to pass several coworkers on the way down, and he would have been sweating profusely, which he wasn't.
15.) Although the United States government wants the American people to so badly believe that Oswald was the 'lone nut', evidence exists that prove otherwise. Oswald was photographed standing outside of the Depository at the same exact time the assassination happened. The photograph was taken by a press photographer named James Altgens. Since this is positive proof that Oswald was not on the sixth floor of the Depository at the time of the assassination, it can only mean that Oswald was a patsy like he claimed. According to history books, Lee Harvey Oswald was a crazy, lone assassin, who held a grudge against America. But in reality, Lee Harvey Oswald was exactly was he claimed he was, a patsy. He was the scapegoat for a conspiracy to murder the president, and then he was silenced forever by Jack Ruby.
If Marina and Robert want to believe that their husband and brother killed President Kennedy, then that's on them; especially since there is enough evidence to prove that Oswald did not assassinate the president and that he was a patsy...just like he claimed he was.
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“In a world where you can be anything, be yourself.”
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#202434 - Sun Dec 19 2004 05:19 PM
Re: JFK Questions
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Anonymous
No longer registered
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very interesting. Since people state that they know exactly where they were on historic occasions,I find it difficult to believe that President G.H. Bush does not recall where he was on that day. Does anyone have proof he was or was not in Dallas on that fateful day?
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#202435 - Sun Dec 19 2004 05:44 PM
Re: JFK Questions
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Learning the ropes...
Registered: Sat Dec 18 2004
Posts: 2
Loc: Israel
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Hello Dakota
The least you could do, is to provide a link to where you copied those texts from. Now, I could just do the same thing, and copy paste text in here, but I prefer so far not to do it. There are answers to all that you wrote. I'll go as far as saying that all the things you pasted here are at best either not true, or speculations. Obviously it was all said before. Now you could do what I did, and find the answers to all the things you wrote by yourself, or if you want, when I have the time, I'll paste the answers here from other sites. For now, here goes one of the links with many answers. It mostly deals with the movie JFK. http://www.jfk-online.com/jfk100menu.html
If you look around there is more. Now when I have to choose between the facts as ugly and bitter as they are, but still the facts, and speculations, and alot of times simply put, lies, I'll stick to the facts. If you still haven't found the answers, I'll put them here later. Ciao
Edited by Morbid (Sun Dec 19 2004 05:46 PM)
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