#204831 - Wed Dec 17 2003 09:24 AM
Re: Book Club(Dec): The Lion, The Witch & The Wardrobe
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Mainstay
Registered: Thu Sep 05 2002
Posts: 527
Loc: Philadelphia Pennsylvania USA
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See now this is why I have enjoyed the book forum for the last few months. Generally my first read through a book I read it at face value, enjoying the book as a fantasy, adventure etc. Usually it's only thru discussion with others that the deeper meanings came through.
When I read this book the first time, it was merely to find out what all the hub-bub was about. Re-reading it again I am doing so searching for hidden nuances and themes and am enjoying it actually more this way. It's almost like being back in school, a place I haven't been in for a good long time.
So thanks everyone for making me think, and keeping me on my toes.
_________________________
'Where is human nature so weak as in the bookstore?---Henry Ward Beecher
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#204832 - Thu Dec 18 2003 04:43 AM
Re: Book Club(Dec): The Lion, The Witch & The Wardrobe
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Multiloquent
Registered: Sat Jun 15 2002
Posts: 2214
Loc: the amusement arcade of life
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Quote:
Skylarb wrote:
(I really had not before heard much about such objections to this particular series, however; perhaps they are rare.)
Not that rare it would seem, considering that one of our very small number has already mentioned having been forbidden to read this book during childhood. Your statement seems to be just a tad blinkered to me.
I agree that this book was an excellent choice, even though I personally found it a little disappointing. For my part, I feel quite sure that my disappointment lies with my preconceived expectations being too high. It had been extremely highly rated in the "Big Read" (finally finishing 9th out of around 6000 nominations) and I'd heard that both children and adults alike adore it, many reading the Chronicles time and again. So many people had gushed about this book as a work of art written by a genius and it just wasn't at all as I had expected.
I really can't speak of the qualities of Lewis as a writer. It wouldn't be fair to judge him only on this one piece of his work that I have ever read. I mentioned earlier in a reply to Mayserell that the 'Christian' theme running through this book was actually an afterthought and I think that therein lies the problem. I got the very distinct impression that originally the whole book had already been formulated and completed as just a fairy story. Then at a later stage, when the idea of adding Christian allegories came to him, he just dropped the odd metaphor in here and there, wherever they might fit most readily into the completed draft of the plot, just to bolster the 'Christian image'.
Apart from Aslan's sacrifice and subsequent resurrection, which was worked in rather well, there were also the parallels of the water turned to wine, the turning of some characters into stone, the feeding of the masses, the breaking of the great stone tablet which contained the written laws and so on.
Possibly his subsequent Narnia books were improved because of the fact that he knew what message he intended to get across from the outset. Can anyone comment on that?
The high rating in the BBC's Big Read was probably a bit flawed anyway, as people could vote as often as they liked, but it's the final position this one attained in the readers' group votes which staggered me. Admittedly they were restricted to voting only for the books already in the top 21, and those did contain a good proportion of children's books and a fair smattering of rather lengthy books which were probably unsuitable for most reading groups. I'm really not at all sure whether they were voting for "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe" on its own merits or as one which had promoted a great deal of interesting discussion, as it has with us.
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fully paid up member of paronomasiacs anonymous
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#204833 - Thu Dec 18 2003 07:47 AM
Re: Book Club(Dec): The Lion, The Witch & The Wardrobe
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Mainstay
Registered: Thu Jan 30 2003
Posts: 631
Loc: Virginia USA
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Quote:
I personally I felt that Golding handled this aspect particulary delicately and beautifully, whereas most of Lewis' efforts came across as rather clumsy to me.
I think this is because Golding was going for a much, much broader theme (not really a full-fledge allegory, though with some allegorical components), and not a specifically Christian one (I think he's Jewish). Golding was merely re-inacting the Fall of mankind. Lewis, on the other hand, is going for a full-fledged allegory of an entire story, with characters, events, and plot, and that doesn't give him the kind of leeway Golding has for Lord of the Flies. Again, I think it comes down more to a criticism of the genre Lewis is choosing (allegory) than of his ability within that genre itself. The genre of allegory is very limiting; but within that genre, I think Lewis writes much better than most authors writing allegories. I used Bunyan's "Pilgrim's Progress" as an example of an allegory I find trying to read. I thought Lewis's take-off on this tale, "Pilgrim's Regress," though certainly not his best book, was actually much richer and better crafted.
_________________________
"Why don’t you write books people can read?"
- Nora Joyce, to her husband James
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#204834 - Thu Dec 18 2003 08:13 AM
Re: Book Club(Dec): The Lion, The Witch & The Wardrobe
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Mainstay
Registered: Thu Jan 30 2003
Posts: 631
Loc: Virginia USA
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Quote:
Your statement seems to be just a tad blinkered to me.
Blinkered. It took me awhile to understand what you meant by that. You could very wll be right. It was just the first time I'd heard it, despite years of interaction and discussions with fundamentalist Christians. (And in mainstream and evangelical Christian circles, I know Lewis is something of an iconic author and a model apologist.) The modern fundamentalist concern with Lewis has probably been so dwarfed by its concern--today--over Harry Potter--that I haven't before heard of Lewis receiving similiar objection. These objections, I'd speculate, would likely have to do with the drinking, the too prominent role of Santa Claus (who is often seen by some Christians as a kind of pagan usurper of Christmas), the use of pagan symbolism and mythology, and the magic (which I guess, if broadly prohibitted, would have to entail an objection to all fantasies and fairy tales).
Quote:
For my part, I feel quite sure that my disappointment lies with my preconceived expectations being too high.
I remembered it so fondly from my childhood, that I was a bit dissapointed on my re-read. I think I will enjoy reading these to my children more in the future.
Quote:
Possibly his subsequent Narnia books were improved because of the fact that he knew what message he intended to get across from the outset. Can anyone comment on that?
This seems a fine theory to me. The subsequent books are better, in my opinion--and if the allegory really was an afterthought in the first book, that could very well be why. Trying to force-fit a story into a mold after it is already formed has, from my own experience of writing, led to literary problems.
Quote:
Admittedly they were restricted to voting only for the books already in the top 21
Internet polls are never very reliable. I remember reading this, and thinking how much great literature was left out of the top 21, and how much mediocre literature got in...but then, it was a contest ultimately about popular literature, not about GREAT literature, per say--and there is no doubt that Lewis's Chronicles are and have been popular. (Also, even though this was a UK poll, I saw the poll, and anyone in the world could have voted and just put down some region.)
Quote:
I'm really not at all sure whether they were voting for "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe" on its own merits or as one which had promoted a great deal of interesting discussion, as it has with us.
I think they were probably voting for it as representative of the entire series, which they found meretorious, rather than on its merits as a single, stand alone book.
_________________________
"Why don’t you write books people can read?"
- Nora Joyce, to her husband James
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#204835 - Thu Jan 18 2007 12:29 PM
Re: Book Club(Dec): The Lion, The Witch & The Wardrobe
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Star Poster
Registered: Mon Apr 03 2000
Posts: 10832
Loc: Northumberland Virginia USA
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Sorry for bringing up a thread this old, but it didn't seem worth creating a new one for my question.
I'm trying to buy the set of 'The Chronicles of Narnia' for my adult sister who read them sometime in her teens, she's 48 now. I'm finding two packaged sets, one labeled "Adult" and wondering what the difference is, besides price or the packaging itself. Is there material edited out of the one version that would be intact in the "Adult" version? And does it make a great deal of difference?
_________________________
Never be too open-minded. Your brains could fall out.
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#204836 - Thu Jan 18 2007 03:03 PM
Re: Book Club(Dec): The Lion, The Witch & The Wardrobe
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Prolific
Registered: Fri Jun 20 2003
Posts: 1179
Loc: Bay Area California USA
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I believe the adult editions just have some small synopses and a small bit of extra information (not any new text)or something similar, and of course the different packaging. If it were me, if there were a significant price difference I would just go with the regular. But if there's not a big difference I might like the extra stuff 'just because'.  The trade editions have inside illustrations, I believe and are larger. If it is for someone who likes to collect or likes 'pretty' books, I might spring for these. These are probably my favorite books; I've read several copies to shreds.  One day I'll have to buy myself a nice set of hardbacks or something and just never read that set.
_________________________
"A bookstore is one of the only pieces of evidence we have that people are still thinking." ~ Jerry Seinfeld
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#204837 - Fri Jan 19 2007 07:38 AM
Re: Book Club(Dec): The Lion, The Witch & The Wardrobe
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Forum Adept
Registered: Wed Mar 09 2005
Posts: 154
Loc: Taunton Somerset UK
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Why appologise for bringing up an old thread. If we are not supposed to surely replies could be blocked?
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#204839 - Sat Jan 20 2007 04:32 AM
Re: Book Club(Dec): The Lion, The Witch & The Wardrobe
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Moderator
Registered: Thu Sep 30 1999
Posts: 12593
Loc: Kowloon Tong Hong Kong
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Quote:
Why appologise for bringing up an old thread. If we are not supposed to surely replies could be blocked?
You are quite right. Some are being blocked for various reasons, mostly if they no longer serve a purpose or are out of date. This one doesn't come under those categories.
_________________________
Wandering aimlessly through FT since 1999.
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#204841 - Thu Jan 25 2007 08:03 PM
Re: Book Club(Dec): The Lion, The Witch & The Wardrobe
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Participant
Registered: Tue Jan 23 2007
Posts: 8
Loc: New Zealand
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I've read the whole series, and i enjoyed the magician's nephew and TLTW&TW as a kid before reading the rest of the series. I especially enjoyed voyage of the dawn treader.
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