To Stew: no, the "closer" is usually a non-attorney employee or agent of the title company writing the policy for the purchaser, who takes the deeds and other documents that have to be recorded, runs them over to the county clerk's office and provides other services incident to the transfer of title and recording of documents. I've done scores of closings and at exactly ONE of them, the closer was an attoirney. And a danged unpleasant one at that.

We also have not made mention of the "mohel"-- the Jewish ritual circumciser, whose famed credo is, "the pay is lousy but the tips are great."

Circumcision? tips? Its … carry on up your innuendo time! A bit off on a family site … no wait now you’ve got me doing it. Back to the original subject please.

Anyone with a bit of cross-cultural curiosity about this tipping business should rent and watch the movie "My Blue Heaven", which features Steve Martin playing a NY gavone relocated to some featureless part of the flyover states while in the witness protection program. Should you come to NY, do as Martin's character does and no one will make you for a tourist... unless you STARE UP THE BUILDINGS or GO TO THE MUSICALS.

In the tradition of so many threads I've seen here; re the above post: Me Too.

Cool was making a joke. Even mohels have families.

There are many countries where tipping is considered offensive, or at the very least not the customary thing to do.

What gets on my goat is the number of people from tipping countries who insist on this practice in these 'non-tipping' countries. Apart from anything else it is showing either an ignorance of the respective culture, or as Tiel said

Quote:

---

... a degrading and dehumanising practice. There are all sorts of subtexts involved. For example, as has already been pointed out it allows Service Providers to pay their staff an inadequate wage so that they have to rely on the charity of customers to make a living, inducing an intense feeling of inferiority. It also says “I am better than you Service Person because I have enough disposable income so that I can pay a surcharge on the price of the Service just to assuage my conscience over your inadequate salary”

---

Just because someone earns a low wage in a country where tipping is not the norm doesn't mean that you should insist on tipping.

Believe it or not in some places culture is a lot stronger than money.

If I was waitressing in a non-tipping country and someone tipped me, whoo hooo, money for somethig I'm getting paid to do. Waitressed in a very touristy town in Ireland, non tipping, wages weren't great but adequate and quite honestly I never felt degraded by people tipping. Never look a gift horse in the mouth.

Run that "culture" stuff to a waitress with kids to feed and rent to pay. I'm sure she'll appreciate it.

Quote:

---

So what about the staff who take the orders at fast food establishments like KFC, would you tip them?

---

It's funny this was asked because it's exactly what this thread brought to mind. When I worked at KFC it was stated in the rule book to refuse any and ALL tips, I was only offerd a couple of times and politely refused, but one guy insisted on giving me a $20 tip. I turned to my manager and said "I know I shouldn't take this what should I do?" she then said "I'll deal with it." and took the money from me and stuffed it in her bra.

In my part of Michigan it is considered rude to leave any less than the standard 15% tip. But if I get bad service and the waitress isn't trying to fend for herself during a rush, then I don't leave a tip, and I will usually tell the waitress why. In really extreme circumstances, like when we had to wait more than an hour to get into the restraunt (not really a big deal) then another hour to get our food, and another hour to get our check. In this case the management is informed.

rootsgrrl,

I must take issue with you on this. I don't know if you have travelled to countries such as Bali, Malaysia, Sri Lanka etc. perhaps yes, perhaps no, but if you have you will know exactly what I mean.

A 'waitress with kids and rent to pay' doesn't exist.

Family is incredibly strong, much more strong than a lot of our Western dysfunctional families and is a complete unit of grandparents, parents, children, brothers and sisters and cousins. If a family member is in dire straits then it will be seen to that no member suffers.

Sure, everyone may not have a television, something the Western world takes for granted but material possessions aren't as high on the list of priorities.

With the influx of say American tourists where it is the norm to tip and they (the tourists) can't understand why you wouldn't, it has changed the outlook of people in those service industries. Where previously good service, friendly attitude and a truly genuine desire to help existed as the natural way of things and part of the culture, an outlook develops to one of expectancy and a 'so what, I don't care' attitude.

Sometimes a simple thank you and a smile will be enough. In fact in some places, tourists have been instructed NOT to tip.

You really need to start thinking outside the box, and from your tone it would appear that you have placed your views upon every culture rather than just your own.

Whilst I agree with your philosophy for places like NY, I don't think you can appreciate that money does not make the WHOLE world go around.

Interesting.

You’re quite right about Asia Exit. A lot of vendors/tourist workers find tipping insulting. I'm not sure if it's a cultural thing or a pride thing, but it's suggested you don't tip. I've found though, while bartering, if you accept a higher price for goods than you could of paid, then you can ensure the vendor is making a decent margin in the transaction. The vendor will quite happily accept the offer and everyone wins.

I did once manage to tip a hotel room guy in Bali once, but I don't know who ended up more embarrassed him or I. He (Wayan) had serviced the room all week and been extremely helpful in organising transport and telling me about some off tourist track things to do- a lovely young kid no more than 19. I was packing up to leave when he came in and I offered him about $200,000 Rupiah, about $30 Aussie. He declined graciously. $200,000 was more than a month’s wages for him and not even two hours work for me. Talk about cultural difference. I did manage to get him to accept as the money was just going to go into the charity bin at the airport anyway, though he was extremely embarrassed, and so was I. Don’t upset the applecart.

Yes I went through something similar to Berthos tipping experience in Singapore. I gave the taxi driver a tip,more as a reward actually as he got us back to the hotel when we were lost, and he handed it back to me. It wasn`t a small amount of money either as I value my skin and when I explained that part of it to him he took the reward........... I have at times been tipped by various people for various jobs after the lady from the USA first tipped me and whilst I didn`t particularily "need" the cash I was happy to accept it when I realised it made people happy. If they are silly enough to give it away I`m not silly enough to knock it back became my motto.

My services weren't often tipped, but around Christmas time I could be offered some. I used to apply a policy. I'd refuse it once but if offered again I'd take it. This gave those who offered a tip because they thought it was the done thing (but couldn't really afford it) an opportunity to withdraw the offer.

I only ever made one exception to this. A very aged person offered me a few coppers as a tip (and it wasn't even Christmas!). I can't say why but I got the impression she would have been offended if I had refused it. It might have appeared that I was turning my nose up at the amount. I didn't really want to take the money but I did.

Everyone I went to got my best attentions but I made up my mind that this lady would get my very best attentions from then on. I resolved she would never go an evening without TV while I had anything to do with it.

I often got tipped in: apples, pears, plums, potatoes and on one occasion, a large bottle of Gin.

Who needs money when you get gin??

I once stayed at a very swanky hotel in Sydney, long story but they certainly didn't have many guests turn up with backpacks I wasn't sure what the policy was with such a high class place even within my own country. The young bloke who took my pack to the room just smiled when I asked what I should do, I figure he knew he made more money than me.

For tipping - I have several friends who were waitresses and I could never understand how they were making wages like $2 an hour when the minimum wage was about $6 an hour. Their tips were expected to make up for the difference.

Tips should ideally be for good service. If the waiters were making good wages, I wouldn't feel so bad about not giving as much for bad service. I wouldn't have to worry at the end of every bill "Now, how much would the tip be? What is the total I should give?" etc.

As for other cultures where tipping is considered rude, you should always go with the culture of the area you're in. Which American president was it that gave the "OK" sign in a country where it meant the same thing as the middle finger? In some countries it's considered rude to finish everything on your plate as it means that the host did not give you enough food. This is one of the reasons that, in many countries, the people hate tourists. In countries like France or Germany, it is considered polite to say "Bonjour" or "Grus Gott" (don't remember the German spelling) to the proprietor when you enter a store. The idea that "I don't care, I'm going to tip them anyway" is, frankly, a bit rude. You're insulting the people. If you really think they have gone above and beyond the call of duty and would like to tip them, tell them that you appreciate what they have done! You can also add something how in your culture, tipping is considered a sign of appreciation and you would like to tip the person. And don't force the issue if they decline.

When you are in another country, you should follow that country's customs. You are sort of an unofficial representative of your country when traveling abroad and should act as such.

I am another who finds the whole concept of tipping to be alien, but that difference has been pointed out many times in this thread.

My post is to ask a question of the pro-tipping countries-

Are tips taxable, and if so, how are they calculated? A honesty system, or some other means?

I am a bit amazed that in all of the above discussion, only one person has pointed out what may be a if not the central issue in most of this tip/no tip dichotomy, at least outside the US Perhaps we should have noted these nine important words which appear in Bruyere's post, above:

Quote:

---

...As there is an automatic fifteen percent service charge

---

Those of you with a bit of spare time may find it fun to page through Fodor's International Tipping Guide:

http://www.fodors.com/features/nfdisplay1.cfm?name=stt/010124_stt_tg_toc

I do not want to say this controls in every country outside the US, but it appears that in a markedly high percentage of them, service compris is the rule rather than the exception. This circumstance alone will necessarily influence if not control the local tipping practices.

The finishing-all-the-food issue is a new one on me, though.
But, heck... I've never left a bit on my plate in France, but once lost a gnocchi-eating contest in Milan, and despite this Berlusconi loves the US and Chirac loathes us.

Exit 10,

If you read my original post, I say "this is all normal in NYC." I don't pretend to know about Bali, etc.

The tirade about Western dysfunctional families was uncalled-for, unnecessary and uninformed. I live in the house in which I grew up, a house which has had six generations of my family living in it since 1954. At the moment there are three generations living here. All families are willing to help their members, however, we are all expected to learn how to paddle our own canoe, so to speak. We all help each other.

I have had it with The US taking the rap for every flaw in humanity. I live in the most diverse place IN THE WORLD, and my views are not at all parochial. Visit NYC and see how immigrants, and the children of immigrants function, co-exist and thrive in a city of 8 million (12 million during working hours). There are dozens of languages spoken scant miles from my home, and my granddaughter attends public school with children from at least 20 nations. Do not accuse me of having elitist views. That is simply not the case.

As my Zia Angelina Baciagalup used to say, "Basta!"

The original question was "Do you tip?" Yes, I do. If you don't, fine. In April, I will attempt to pay my property taxes with "culture." Don't ever say we are lacking culture here. We have it to spare.

Why is it that so many folks feel free to attack American values, as if they have some kind of patent on all that is good and right, and charitable?

Peep this:

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to breathe free.

The wretched refuse of your teeming shores; send these, the homeless, tempest-toss'd, to me.
I lift my light beside the golden door."
Emma Lazarus

Where again does that verse reside?

Welcome to the USA. Tipping is permitted.

Tips are taxable in Jersey. There is space on the form to enter them, the Income Tax Department have a good idea as to how much would be earned in tips in each type of establishment and I am sure that they would come down heavily on anyone not declaring what the Department feels is correct.

Cool, we have some advertisments at present in the UK which show some gentlemen from the far east, perhaps China, who are entertaining a western gentleman who clears his plate, then thet bring more, he eats that, then more - we are then told that in some places it is considered rude to clear the plate as it brings into question the generosity of your host, the guest thought it rude to leave food. The adverts are for HSBC.

rootsgrrl,

Perhaps I could have worded my post a little better. When I said 'say America' I merely used it as an example. I could have just as easily said 'say France' or any other country where tipping is the normal practice.
I had no intention of attacking America.

Nor am I saying you shouldn't tip, and I did agree with your philosophy about tipping in NY.

The point I, and others in this thread, was trying to make is that it is a case of different strokes for different folks and we should be mindful of that when we are not on our home turf.

The same as it is "culturally" inappropriate NOT to tip in the U.S. Tipping in the U.S. is part of the culture, the same as in France etc. so when in Rome...

Just because you tip in a culture that considers it offensive to do so, doesn't make it right. As Bertho said 'Don't upset the apple cart.'

Rootsgrrl wrote: "Run that "culture" stuff to a waitress with kids to feed and rent to pay. I'm sure she'll appreciate it." To which Exit10 posted a fairly reasoned response which was a good thing, because I found her words so offensive, insulting and reeking of cultural and class blindness that I was intending to reply with a rant of the first water. I find it obscene that rootsgrrl should imply that a waitress is incapable of developing class consciousness. Perhaps she was implying that being a member of the manual working class the waitress would be too stupid to appreciate her position or maybe she simply that working such long hours on inhuman wages a waitress would have no time for it. Maybe rootsgrrl simply meant that if she did appreciate the "culture stuff" she would become unemployable through blacklisting. Unbelievably rootsgrrl saw fit to respond to Exit10’s post with a self-centred monologue which ended with the following:

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to breathe free.
The wretched refuse of your teeming shores; send these, the homeless, tempest-toss'd, to me.
I lift my light beside the golden door."
Emma Lazarus

Where again does that verse reside?

Welcome to the USA. Tipping is permitted."

Let us consider the words of the "New Colossus" for a moment and highlight the difference between the lofty poetic vision and history:

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses,"

No, not really there are masses and masses of poor huddled just below the Rio Grande waiting to get in and lots and lots of people with guns just North of the Rio Grande with other plans for them.

"yearning to breathe free." Well they can yearn all they want but if they are working class it is not going to happen. Combinations and Unions have been ruthlessly suppressed in the USA either directly by Federal government or Local government or business or organised crime. Consider, just a few examples; the Johnson County war, the practices giving rise to the Molly Maguires, the veterans protests after WWI, the suppression of the IWW and last but not least driving the USCP underground.

"The wretched refuse of your teeming shores" No, not even this.

"send these, the homeless, tempest-toss'd, to me." Yeh! right lets put all London’s rough sleepers on an Airbus, I think not!

"I lift my light beside the golden door." I understand this refers to the future not the USA.

Having reviewed the verse we can now answer the question "Where again does that verse reside" with along with all the other nice but untrue works of fiction. Returning to the point for a moment.

"Welcome to the USA. Tipping is permitted." It is not that tipping is permitted in the USA, it is that it is required by service workers in order that they can make an even marginally living wage.

It is my understanding of the situation in the UK that a Service Charge is optional, that is you can have it removed from your bill if you are not satisfied. I have done this a few times, it has been a difficult situation on both occasions.

I would suggest that the low wage/tipping culture in the USA has more to do with the failure to properly Unionise low paid Service Workers than the Service Charge.

Clarification of two points: (1) Why aren't wait staff paid a living wage in the U.S.? How can the employer get by paying below minimum wage?

A business must have more than 20 employees before federal law kicks in requiring the minimum wage. An employee must also work 40 hours or more per week to qualify for benefits, such as medical, dental, or retirement.

(2) Can wait staff conceal tips to keep the federal government from collecting taxes?

Nope. There is a requirement that employers calculate tips of an average employee and withhold taxes based on what should be reasonable and customary tipping for their establishment (or words to that effect). The feds have covered every conceivable avenue of tax avoidance except for garage sales and bartering.