To teach in a NYC public school, a four-year degree is required. You are also required to earn a Master's within a few years of being appointed. At the present time, the NYC Department of Education gives preference to holders of Math or Science degrees. There is also a thorough background check.

It's true about older folks tending to tip less. My friend's mom once left a five-dollar tip on a $43.00 check, and then said, "Did you see how excited they got when they saw that five dollars?"

Over here they'd honestly get excited, because it would be a more than average tip.

Ever since my brother had a job as a waiter while in high school, my parents tend to tip more than they used to, because they know what it feels like to get a big tip. It's not that waiters expect to get a (big) tip, but it's still a nice surprise if they do. And I think in the end that's what tips should be: a bonus, not something expected.

1) Slightly less confrontational look of total bewilderment. Where did rootsgrrl get the impression I thought she had staff?
2) Rootsgrrl, “A waitress can work as long as she so desires.” Thank you for answering my question but I think you are still missing the point. Let me rephrase the question, can she be compelled on pain of dismissal, loss of earnings or whatever to work as long as the owner or manager wants?
3) Rootsgrrl, “ … a bartender working the second shift (6p-4a) will take home about 500-700 dollars , mostly in tips.” (On Paddy’s day). Is a ten hour shift normal? That is hardly a fair working practice if it is. The phrase ‘mostly in tips’ is also difficult to accept in the context of fairness.
4) Rootsgrrl, “I made it a policy never to pay any of my workers minimum wage.” Remember what I said about clarity? You just cannot mean what you have written!
5) Rootsgrrl, “What ethnic heritage?” yet further insults! Let me explain in simple terms. Septic tank rhymes with Yank. You have suggested that we Cockernese would debase our ancient patois by using the term Seppo. In classical Cockernese an American is referred to as a Septic. It is only in the highly debased yet creative form of Cockernese known as Striner as “wot is spoked Down Under” that the endings of the rhymed words are replaced with an ‘o’. Regrettably, Estuarine English continues to rise as a distinct dialect and it has embraced the term Seppo. The omnipresent Estuarine presence erodes away the ancient Cockernese tongue ever more rapidly. The word Seppo may well be regarded as a symbol of the decline in Cockernese and hence the basis for my forthcoming action for ethnic discrimination.
6) Leau78 and Ozzz2002 thanks for the info..
7) Stew, “Tielhard's trawl for the facts may be illuminating. From reading this thread I suspect we might find (if we could allow for differing costs of living) that the actual cost to the customer in tipping and non-tipping cultures is similar.”
It will be good if we can get enough information to make a determination but there is not enough at the moment. We can use the International Cost of Living Allowance to discriminate between different earning regimes.

We've pretty much only been discussing waiters' tips so far. How about the tips that taxi drivers, hair dressers, bell boys and so on get? Where you live, are their tips supposed to make up for the lack of a decent salary, or are they considered a bonus?

I addressed that in my first post. Again (and again), these figures apply in NYC.

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It will be good if we can get enough information to make a determination but there is not enough at the moment.

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Tiel, how about you give us the UK info?

Here we go again. A waitress may work overtime if she wishes. She is not compelled to do so. A freind who worked as a programmer for Computer Associates some years ago was told by a colleague that a 70-80 hour work week was standard for CA. What is this "pain of dismissal" hooey?

I cannot mean that I always paid my workers more than minimum? Why is that?

I should not be insulted that Americans are called something that rhymes with human waste disposal, but a lack of encyclopedic knowledge on British slang is a slur on British heritage? Do you have any snake oil for sale?

A ten-hour shift for bartenders is standard. Most bars are open from 8a-4a; 20 hours. two ten-hour shifts. The bartenders usually work three or four shifts a week. I also stated the figures for a normal evening's work. A very large media company here in NYC has many employees working three 12-hour shifts a week in their computer operations department. Is that unfair?

"I shudder to think how you treat your staff"---That's where I got the idea.

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I cannot mean that I always paid my workers more than minimum? Why is that?

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You can certainly mean that, but that's not the only thing that your words could imply. You said in your previous post "I made it a policy never to pay any of my workers minimum wage". You didn't say whether you paid them more than minimum or less. I think that's what Tielhard meant when he asked you to be clearer about what you mean.

It would have been ILLEGAL to pay them less

Here, in the Rocky Mountain region of the U.S., we generally tip wait staff 10-15 percent of the restaurant bill unless the service is unusually bad (nothing) or unusually good (20 percent).
We do not tip owners of establishments, nor anyone who does not provide a service. Some people do tip their postman, trash collectors and such but it is not usual and only done at Christmas time.

A haircut here cost $5-7 and I tip $1.
A bell boy in a hotel may get $1 per bag.
A taxi driver would get $1 minimum depending on the length of the trip. Most taxi drivers charge extra for handling luggage. I haven't been in a city taxi in about 15 years and that was to get from a hotel to the airport, so I'm not sure how much they expect for a tip these days.

Generally speaking, it is appropriate to tip someone who provides a personal service and it is their primary job to provide that service.

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A haircut here cost $5-7

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Wow! I'll have to seriously consider moving there, that's cheap!

First, things are getting heated in a thread that does not need to be. Everyone, step back and take a deep breath here.

Secondly, Leau brought up something (and fjohn began the answers to it) that I'd like to explore at this point. Since it appears that this is too volatile for discussion, please drop the waiters/waitresses/waitstaff at this point, and answer what Leau has asked....

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We've pretty much only been discussing waiters' tips so far. How about the tips that taxi drivers, hair dressers, bell boys and so on get? Where you live, are their tips supposed to make up for the lack of a decent salary, or are they considered a bonus?

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as this was part of the intent of this thread to begin with.

To clarify a bit further (and it does appear that some of you did get this point, but others seem to have not) - the purpose of the thread was to learn from each other (ie, not argue with one another) as to the MANY different ways that every culture does things. What's right in some places is not in others. And, vice versa.

Please bear in mind that we are all very protective of the near sanctity of our traditions and customs, especially where it concerns the almighty dollar (or shekel, or pound, or ruble, etc.).

"Heated?" Of course! If all you want is "We do this here," "Oh, and we do this here," "Me too," "Me too," Me too," you are not giving any of us enough credit for chutzpah, intelligence, or self-esteem.

I guess all college debate teams should be outlawed.

Some of the "heated" threads are the most fun!

This forum, The Commons, is for light-hearted threads, not more serious discussion, for those we have Current Events and Controversial Issues. We also don't discuss sport or music in this particular forum.

This isn't the forum - nor the thread for heated. I'm sure everyone can explain the customs of their lands quite well (and quite intelligently) in a calm, collected manner. "Intelligent" and "heated" are not interchangeable.

Now, can you calmly tell us a little about the other tipping customs, rootsgrrl, in NYC - things such as what Leau described?

I get my hair cut for about $12 or 13 - but that's because the owner gives me a discount since she's my mom's friend.. but I usually tip her so she ends up getting about $15. (Round numbers are easier to do in my checkbook!

I never know how much to tip the pizza delivery guy - I usually try for 15%.

As for bellboys, I haven't been to a hotel in AGES that has a bellboy! Heck, I haven't been to a hotel period in ages!

From the lead post on this thread:

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Do you support the notion of tipping? Do you agree with it? Would you like to see it abolished?

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Hear, hear. About NINETY people have posted on this thread in five days. People were interested. And they gave their opinions and then some.

Yes, it got heated. People often do get heated when they argue about things that they care about. And yes, I am speaking about people of the adult persuasion. In fact people who argue about things for a living, and I happen to be one of them, are often heard to argue very passionately about any number of things, whether they be on the job or off.

I really do not know what it is that people are afraid of. I commend Linda from the bottom of my heart for starting a topic that has everyone posting and posting again. But by the same token I can only marvel at formulations such as these:

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Now can we keep this on less confrontational footing, The Commons isn't intended for sparring. Thank you.

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This forum, The Commons, is for light-hearted threads, not more serious discussion, for those we have Current Events and Controversial Issues. We also don't discuss sport or music in this particular forum.

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To clarify a bit further (and it does appear that some of you did get this point, but others seem to have not) - the purpose of the thread was to learn from each other (ie, not argue with one another) as to the MANY different ways that every culture does things. What's right in some places is not in others. And, vice versa.

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I don't know what the "purpose" of a thread is. I have heard this concept bandied about here before, but unless the purpose is stated openly and clearly, one can only guess at the underlying motivations of the person starting the thread. This thread began with an administrator soliciting people's opinions on the practice of tipping. And people did, in fact, offer opinions, some of them quite passionate, many of them backed up with a wealth of interesting detail.

Yes, OF COURSE The Commons is for light-hearted threads, but sometimes the light-hearted threads meander into controversial areas, in which case it is my understanding that they can be, with a minimum of effort, switched to CI, as indeed many other threads in various fora are, in what I understand to be routine fashion. In point of fact someone suggested earlier on in this thread that the thing be switched to CI, and, yes, I will spare someone the labor of pointing out that the person who suggested it is not a mod, quit as an ed, is privileged to be here and does not in this forum enjoy the same first amendment rights as people who write articles in newspapers and things.

Etc.

If people wish to discuss something here, do so in adult (indeed, in this context almost abstruse) terms, refrain from profanity and steer way clear of sexual content, why in god's name should they not be given the opportunity to discuss to their heart's delight? Why, in these fora, is "heated" invariably conflated with "dangerous"?

What reasonable basis is there for restricting highly educated people, many in their forties, to a level of prescribed and mechanical "discussion" that most bright 11th-graders would find dull?

Where are you people going that you get such great deals on haircuts?!

I tip my hairdresser about $5 for a cut and $10 for a chemical process. Of course, that may vary. There are times when I'll tip more than that for both (never less).

When I get a manicure, I usually do $5 for a manicure and $10 for a pedicure (or for both). Again, it depends on who does it and how much time they spend and things like that.

Pizza delivery, I do about 15%.

And, for hotel stuff, I do whatever seems to be right in the area I'm in and what's been done for me. There are some times when a couple of dollars suffice. And, there are others when it's a little more.

Cab drivers, I do a couple of dollars.

Linda, are those tips meant to be a bonus, or is it an implicit salary compensation?

Those are strictly bonus, in those cases. At least, where I live.

I'd never have thought there could be so much strong feeling involved over whether or not you give a person an extra Bob or two for carrying out a service. Taking a more simplistic approach, if I want to go somewhere I haven't been before, I always ask someone more well travelled than me about the custom regarding tips. Whatever works for that country/area has probably been arrived at over a long period of time and is fine by me. Who am I to try and say how they should behave? I just stick to the rule of the area. No worries.

The strong feelings expressed in this thread had less to do with "Do you tip?" and more to do with "Should you tip?" and the morality of paying staff so poorly that they have to rely on tips to make a decent living.

Personally, I would rather simply pay more for a service and not tip, rather than pay little and have to try to work out whether a tip is appropriate, who do I tip, how much do I tip etc.

When in Rome, however, I do as the Romans do. So, do they tip in Italy?

MG

I guess the question then becomes is it 'a service' (e.g. getting your plumbing fixed) or is it 'service' (where you get a great taxi driver at 3.00am and you can't stand up straight)?

I agree that the whole issue regarding whether a tip is appropriate, who do I tip, how much do I tip is very very confusing for those who live in generally non-tipping countries such as Oz.

- What degree of service can one reasonably expect in order to earn a tip?
- What degree of service is above and beyond the call of duty?
And following on from that is the question of what you would tip and what I would tip being totally different interpretations on the level of service that was provided.

I haven't phrased this very well.
The benchmark that *you* set for receiving good service might be totally different to the benchmark that *I* set for receiving good service and that will determine the tip. Following on from that, if say the standards were the same how much would you tip and how much would I tip?

I'm not sure if this should be the start of another thread or a continuation of this one. How does one determine what the 'tip' is for performing a wedding, baptism, funeral, etc? I have always heard that members of the clergy do these services as part of their job, but that it is customary to pay or tip for this service as well.

Good question, CS. I've always wondered how you know what to tip them as well.

But, then again, maybe this differs from area to area as well? I don't know. I don't know exactly what my parents tipped the clergy for my grandparents' funerals, but I do know that the one done in a small town was less, because they were going with the customs of the area in which the funeral was performed.

Do other countries even tip for these kinds of things, too? Or, is that a straight fee according to the situation?