#212944 - Tue Mar 09 2004 01:32 PM
Re: Math vs maths (and other differences)
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Multiloquent
Registered: Wed Nov 12 2003
Posts: 2165
Loc: Nebraska USA
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I've always (well, since being old enough to use my own knife, anyway,) used the knife in my right hand and fork in my left. In case of soup or salad, where no knife is used, I use the utensil in my right hand. While eating the main course, my knife remains in my right hand at all times, and is used to "help" food onto the fork as well as to cut meat. However, if I have nothing left on my plate that requires cutting, I switch the fork to my right hand. I always eat my meat or any other thing I've cut and/or speared with the tines curved down. But when eating something like peas, I should think it difficult to keep the peas on a fork that way, and spearing a biteful of peas would be more fun to watch than to do, so I use the fork the other way up. I even eat pizza with a fork and knife.
I have no idea where I got this mix of uses, but surmise that the more European of my habits was probably passed to me via my mother, from my very proper German grandmother.
Also, people in the midwest are notorious for saying "I've Got" and even Hollywood has jumped on the bandwagon of superfluous words with "You've Got Mail" and such. I can be heard to add that extra "got," even though I'm quite aware of the fact that it isn't necessary. However, I usually don't use the contraction "I've" all that much as I prefer "I have" and you will never hear me say "I have got." I think it might be more of an improper usage of "I've gotten" rather than just someone adding in an extra word, though. "I've gotten lots of books" does make sense, and the "gotten" isn't superfluous.
People in the US DO sometimes say "Our Jennifer" or "My Jennifer" in reference to family members, but usualy only in matters of pride, where they really want to imply some ownership of the relationship. A mother might say of her award-winning son, "That's my Cory."
Edited by Lothruin (Tue Mar 09 2004 01:45 PM)
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Goodbye Ruth & Betty, my beautiful grandmothers. Betty Kuzara 1921 - April 5, 2008 Ruth Kellison 1925 - Dec 27, 2007
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#212945 - Tue Mar 09 2004 01:39 PM
Re: Math vs maths (and other differences)
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Administrator
Registered: Sun Dec 19 1999
Posts: 38005
Loc: Jersey Channel Islands
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What I meant is where do you place them, wally! We place them together and angle them at about 18 minutes past the hour (if the plate was a clock).
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#212946 - Tue Mar 09 2004 02:06 PM
Re: Math vs maths (and other differences)
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Star Poster
Registered: Thu Sep 30 1999
Posts: 11250
Loc: Munchkinland
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Yeah, I know what you meant. But, it's more fun to play with that British mind a bit!  We don't have a specific angle to put them (although, I do know that things like that exist). We just put them down on the plate. I, typically, put them together. But, then, I have some obsessiveness in me!
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#212947 - Tue Mar 09 2004 02:15 PM
Re: Math vs maths (and other differences)
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Moderator
Registered: Mon Dec 03 2001
Posts: 20912
Loc: Sydney NSW Australia
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Lothruin, I am glad you brought up the word 'gotten'. When I was visiting the USA, I heard it many times, but Down Under, you will never hear it. My primary school teacher also told us that 'got' was an awful word, that should be deleted from the language, for being too 'common'. To this day, it still grates on my nerves every time I hear it.
I am a 'tines-down' boy, too, and always use my knife and spoon in the right hand, and my fork in the left- NO exceptions!
The placing of the cutlery at meal's end is similar to Sue's, but in a restaurant, placing them in the 8:20 position means you enjoyed the meal, but if you laid them in a perpendicular position that indicates that the meal was less than satisfactory.
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#212949 - Tue Mar 09 2004 02:26 PM
Re: Math vs maths (and other differences)
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Moderator
Registered: Wed Oct 17 2001
Posts: 8479
Loc: Hastings Sussex England UK
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Quote:
But when eating something like peas, I should think it difficult to keep the peas on a fork that way
Of course it’s difficult! British “table manners” were invented by the middle classes as one of their many ways of distinguishing themselves from the beastly workers. Since the workers would naturally use eating irons in the most convenient way, “table manners” had to involve using them in the most difficult way imaginable.
Quote:
Also, people in the midwest are notorious for saying "I've Got" and even Hollywood has jumped on the bandwagon of superfluous words with "You've Got Mail" and such. I can be heard to add that extra "got," even though I'm quite aware of the fact that it isn't necessary. However, I usually don't use the contraction "I've" all that much as I prefer "I have" and you will never hear me say "I have got." I think it might be more of an improper usage of "I've gotten" rather than just someone adding in an extra word, though. "I've gotten lots of books" does make sense, and the "gotten" isn't superfluous.
In Britain, for 300 years or more, “got” has combined the senses of the US “got” and “gotten.” In Britain “gotten” survives only in fossilized phrases like “ill-gotten gains” and possibly still in the mines (“five thousand tons of coal were gotten from the face at No 7 Main last year”).
Although “I’ve got” may be unnecessary alongside “I have”, I don’t see any reason to object to it. If I possess (“have”) something, the chances are that I’ve acquired (“got”, or in the US “gotten”) it at some time in the past. So the transition from “I’ve got” meaning “I have acquired” to “I’ve got” meaning “I possess” is natural and understandable. It is noted without comment by Dr Johnson in his Dictionary in the 1760s.
I don’t mind admitting that I usually say “I’ve got a cold” or “Have you got any beer in the fridge” when I’m speaking informally. And I actually prefer the traditional colloquial British negatives and interrogatives (“I haven’t got”; “have you got?”) to the imported American “I don’t have” and “Do you have?” To my old-fashioned British ears “Have you got indigestion?” means “Are you suffering from it at present?”, whereas “Do you have indigestion?” means “Are you habitually dyspeptic?”
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#212951 - Tue Mar 09 2004 02:33 PM
Re: Math vs maths (and other differences)
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Star Poster
Registered: Thu Sep 30 1999
Posts: 11250
Loc: Munchkinland
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By the way, lest you think I'm serious there, let me say that the way I eat pizza is unlike a lot of Americans as well! I like to pull off all the topping. Then, I eat the crust. Trust me when I say that I get curious looks here, too!
Edited by Linda1 (Tue Mar 09 2004 02:33 PM)
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Cats know what we feel. They don't care, but they know.
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#212952 - Tue Mar 09 2004 04:03 PM
Re: Math vs maths (and other differences)
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Multiloquent
Registered: Tue Feb 17 2004
Posts: 4435
Loc: Pleasanton California USA
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#212953 - Tue Mar 09 2004 04:10 PM
Re: Math vs maths (and other differences)
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Moderator
Registered: Wed Oct 17 2001
Posts: 8479
Loc: Hastings Sussex England UK
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If I eat chips (French fries) at home, I eat them off a plate with a knife and fork. But of course, as any Brit will tell you, this is a very unsatisfactory environment for eating chips. You can only get the full enjoyment of them when you eat them in the open air with your fingers. They should be liberally dosed with malt vinegar and salt (yes! plenty of salt!) and wrapped in newspaper.
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#212956 - Tue Mar 09 2004 08:15 PM
Re: Math vs maths (and other differences)
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Multiloquent
Registered: Wed Nov 12 2003
Posts: 2165
Loc: Nebraska USA
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 It's ok if our "got"'s sound "common," as all we midwesterners are a crass lot anyway. If I'm eating a sandwich, I generally don't eat with utensils, and any side items I might have with that sandwich are probably also eaten with my fingers. If, on the other hand, I'm eating a sub-style or hoagie "sandwich" of a particularly messy variety, like a cheese steak or french dip, I'll frequently use a knife and fork. That also depends on if I'm eating in public or in my own home. If I'm eating my meal with utensils, and happen to have fries with my meal, I don't bother putting the utensils down to eat my fries. That seams like too much work just to eat my "finger food." In fact, my table manners do depend quite a bit on whether I'm in the privacy of my own home. In public, I would never lick the plate of a particularly good chocolate cake, but if you gave me such a cake at home, and it was REALLY good, you might catch me at it. I also would never shovel food off the plate and into my mouth in public, but on a slim few occasions, during very hurried meals involving lots of small bits, like corn or peas, I might also be caught at that. I think typically in America, the symbol that means you're done with your meal is not where your utensils are, but where your napkin is. Depending on the dining establishment, of course. Often, a paper napkin should be actually ON your plate and the plate no longer directly in front of you, so the bussers know to take it away. If it is a cloth napkin or a slightly higher end establishment, the napkin should be on the table next to your plate and NOT neatly folded, so the server recognizes it has been used and you are done using it. The utensils can also be a clue, though. Usually my utensils end up together on the plate at about 4:00, under the napkin if the napkin is on the plate. In some types establishments, if side sauce dishes are included, those also go on the main plate, so the busser has an easier time collecting it. When I really think about all these nuances, it astounds me. The subtle or not so subtle differences between my table manners depending on where and with whom I'm eating are quite interesting to me when I really stop to think about it all.
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Goodbye Ruth & Betty, my beautiful grandmothers. Betty Kuzara 1921 - April 5, 2008 Ruth Kellison 1925 - Dec 27, 2007
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#212957 - Wed Mar 10 2004 07:53 AM
Re: Math vs maths (and other differences)
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Administrator
Registered: Sat Mar 29 2003
Posts: 16595
Loc: Western Canada
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In restaurant work, we tend to assume that the customer is finished eating when the utensils are together, and lying either at about 4:00, or horizontally across the plate. If they are separate, and lying across the plate meeting at the top, in a sort of peak, this means that the customer is merely resting, and will continue eating. A napkin crumpled and lying either on the plate, or beside it, can be a sign that they are finished. Body language means more than any of these things though, as, although the serving staff may know the rules, the customer doesn't, necessarily! Then the cardinal rule of restaurant service comes into play - make your customer feel comfortable, no matter how odd his table manners are.
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#212958 - Wed Mar 10 2004 10:16 AM
Re: Math vs maths (and other differences)
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Forum Adept
Registered: Thu Jan 09 2003
Posts: 170
Loc: England
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For dining habits around the world have a look at this page. It seems all too easy to offend your host by taking your national eating etiquette to another country. Oh, for British readers it explains how to peel and eat a banana with a knife and fork.
Edited by Biggles (Wed Mar 10 2004 10:39 AM)
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