Reminded by a geography chat thread 'Which countries have you visited', I wondered what the status of far-flung, miniature independent colonies like Gibraltar and Singapore are when making such a list accurately.
Gibraltar is officially British, and therefore appears to have a status similar to the Isle of Man, which, as far as I know, is not a separate country, but British, and both their cars have GB plates, plus a G for Gibraltar and M for Man.

If crossing the Irish Sea to the Isle of Man, it wouldn't really feel like going abroad, but when travelling 1000 miles to Gibraltar, complete with border controls with Spain, you've definitely been somewhere abroad, but unlike many Spanish parts detached from the mainland like the Canary Islands, Gibraltar has an independence from Britain while still being connected, as was Hong Kong. So you can accurately say 'I have visited Spain' when only going to the Canary Islands and not the mainland, but could you say 'I've been to Britain' when you've only been to Gibraltar? You can see why I'm confused!

Oops, satguru. Singapore has been fully independent of Britain since about 1960, though for a while it was linked (unhappily) to Malaysia.

Gibraltar is a Crown Colony, with a right regular genuine Governor, no doubt a KCMG and all that, too.

The status of the Islands is something very close to independence, except that they don't have their own foreign policy ... You might ask Sue for a more precise answer ...

As for GBG I'm pretty sure it indicates Guernsey and has nothing to do with the Rock. Cf GBJ for Jersey.

Now, let me try a more serious answer. How would you feel if a foreigner told you he/she had visited Britain, and it turned out that the person had never set foot on *mainland* Britain? I must confess I'd be a bit puzzled unless there were very special cirumstances and I'd be unimpressed by the claim to have visited Britain. I hope you don't find this harsh.

Personally, when listing countries I've visted I make it a golden rule to include a country only if I've visited the main body of the country (or something comparable) _and_ I exclude countries I've only visited on day trips or where I only spent less than one week.

It is a colony. I will put this to the manager of the Gibraltar CAB today. I know they consider themselves British and have demonstrations to say they wish to remain British when there is a suggestion of handing them over to Spain.

I'll get back to you when Pili replies.

Jersey is a dependency of the Crown and is certainly in the British Isles so you could say that you have visited Britain (but not Great Britain) if you only visited one of the Channel Islands, I will ask Pili if they consider the same about Gibraltar.

If a person decided to apply to come to Britain to live and work from a country for which a visa would be necessary, they could apply for this through the Jersey Immigration and Nationality Department and could then freely travel between Jersey and the UK, for immigration purposes, and nationality, Jersey is lumped in with the the rest of Britain.

I'm always confused by the differences between Great Britain and the United Kingdom. According to my reference books Great Britain is England, Scotland and Wales plus adjacent islands governed from the mainland. So the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man are not part of Great Britain.

The United Kingdom is Great Britain plus Northern Island, the Isle of Man (a crown possession) and the Channel Islands (British crown dependencies). The word British refers to people from the UK and not just Great Britain, which fortunately means Sue does not have to call herself a United Kingdomer.

Just to confuse matters further the British Isles is the UK plus Ireland, which is politically totally independent of Great Britain and the UK.

Sorry Bloomsby, I was clearly half asleep, I knew it was Z for Gibraltar but at 1.39 am I'd obviously had a hard day...

I wouldn't be as hard on yourself regarding time spent in countries, we've had people on airport stopovers etc, some who haven't even left the plane, and when I took an afternoon trip across the lake to Canada I still got my passport stamped, but my record is approximately 1 minute in Lille, France.
This was on the Eurostar back from Brussels, and I worked out that if I actually got of the train in Lille I could officially count another visit to France. I've made various day trips across borders, and if you've been to Malmo and can remember it, I think you're equal to someone who spent a week there (especially if, like me, he spent most of the time by the hotel swimming pools and even if there for two weeks could be blissfully unaware of which country they were in).

Also, I go abroad so rarely nowadays, I have to clutch at these straws!
So, officially, should I count Gibraltar?
I'd never really understood the details about Singapore except it was separate from Malaysia, and I do have to struggle since Hong Kong, Goa, Macau (?), and Greenland either became totally independent, or partially as in the case of Greenland, to find many more colonies such as Gibraltar, though I think the Falklands are of equal status as British colonies.
French colonies, however, are not considered as separate and are all French departements (extra e added deliberately there as the French version), meaning if you visit Guadeloupe you can say 'I've been to France', and the French would insist that be the case. You can see why I'm confused, as before I asked this question I think each person I asked gave a different answer. I'll await your official authority, Sue.

I am still waiting to hear from Gibraltar, I will let you know once I get a reply.

Oops, look like some reference books are heading for the bin. Sorry Sue to have dragged you into the UK and EU in a single post.

I always have a bee in my bonnet about Rutland being described in modern reference books as England's smallest county. It was true, but then it merged with Leicestershire for a few years before becoming a county it its own right again. At the same time as Rutland was re-established the Isle of Wight (formerly part of Hampshire) became a county and IOW is smaller than Rutland.

Biggles, you've sent me off on a tangent now about counties. Despite many searches online and at the library, I still don't know if the new County Boroughs such as Bracknell Forest, Southend etc replace the old counties entirely?
Apart from a question answered on Radio 4 that said the old counties still existed, with no reasons, I can't work out whether a large town like Thurrock is still in Essex now it's a C.B. or whether Berkshire now exists at all.

Clearly the postal addresses aren't affected, but nowadays, apart fom in London, they don't want us to put counties on letters at all, just the post town and code. So really I can see no situation where Berkshire (the worst-affected county) could be used correctly now.

I agree with you, Satguru. Quiz setters get round this by referring to 'traditional' counties. I still refer to County Boroughs as being in the county that surrounds them, but that may be strictly incorrect.

Postal addresses are at the whim of Royal Mail and may not indicate the actual county, but the location of the sorting office that serves it. Leicestershire's Twycross Zoo has a postal address of Warwickshire and a CV (Coventry area) post code because that's where the mail comes from.

Agree with you Biggles but when was Rutland EVER a part of Leicestershire!

Major discussions and research by my co-question masters and it was finally agreed that the Isle of Wight is the smallest (in area) (ever?) English County.

"It became part of Leicestershire in 1974 but was re-instated as an independent unitary authority in 1997" - Collins English Dictionary. I was sure because my wife works for Leicestershire County Council and was involved in organising the split. Mind you the people of Rutland never thought of themselves as anything other than Rutlanders (or whatever the word is).

Never doubted your facts for one minute Biggles - It's just that Rutland and Leicestershire never ever accepted the fact that they were supposed to be one! (If I did a local knowledge round of questions and called it Leicestershire there would always be the question "does that include Rutland?")
Just as the Airport will never never ever be Nottingham! It will always be Castle Donnington.!

I have heard back from my contact in Gibraltar, she says that one could obviously say that you have visited a British colony, but that is all. As for the car number plates, they are G12345 etc but not, as we knew, GBG as that is Guernsey.

Thanks Sue, that's roughly what I thought. And last year Gibraltar reached all the 9s (99999 I think) and now have an A at the end as well, from G 10000 A to G 10000 Y or Z which will keep turning over, giving them sufficient capacity for up to 2,600,000 more cars, which is more than enough. I have already seen a few in London, and a GG plus 5 numbers, which is their temporary series.
And of course you know Jersey also recently added a 6th number when they hit 99999, and I've seen a few of these as well, starting J 101...

Sadly, unlike Gibraltar and Jersey, most other European countries have (like Portugal, Spain and Italy) or are about to (France and Switzerland) ditch their geographical number plates with ones allocated solely in alphabetical order. It will soon be impossible to know where any car was registered apart from the country, which is an end to much tradition. Sorry Sue, you got me going there...

Hi, Satguru. I've been meaning for ages to respond the question about whether I'm being rather hard on myself in not counting very short trips as "genuine" visits to a country. One of the main reasons is that I find that on my return from a visit abroad people tend to credit one with a level of expertise that one can't possibly acquire in, say, a three day visit.

In my case there are, in fact, very few countries that fall foul as it were of my little rule, namely Belgium, Luxembourg and San Marino. Incidentally, there's something a bit abirtrary about what many tourists do and don't count as a country. For example, do people visiting Vatican City add it to their list of countries visited? That is one country where my little rule doesn't make sense ... The likelihood of staying overnight in the Vatican as a visitor is so remote as to be almost unthinkable and a week would be mind-boggling. and

I know that St Helier has a branch of Woolworths. Logically it must therefore be British. Hope that helps.

Hello everyone,
I has been quite some time. SatGuru, I will be in Dorset soon. Is there an ashram there?
Sometimes, a country can be in reality a colony because of it economic subjugation to the master whose depature was an illusion.
I met a Singaporean in Cairo, Egypt some time ago and from what he told me about the place I think they are a country. They speak Chinese and English.
Their attained counry status is due partly due to their leader.
Many indonesian maids escaped there from harsh Saudi Arabians and were better treated. I believe they are a role model for the mainland Chinese.