I wrote here before about an incident concerning a dog with a bad attitude to cyclists. Yesterday's one was worse than that. My brother and I had just ridden to a point where one track joins another. About 100 yards away along the other track were a group of people talking. A number of dogs were with them.

On seeing us, the dogs immediately ran up and started barking, growling and certainly threatening to bite. There were five of them. Four were small dogs, not Corgis but about that size. The other was a Border Collie (I think).

We have found that the best thing to do when dogs object to us on our bikes is stay still until the owners, who invariably get embarrassed an panicky, get the dog(s) under control. That took about 3-4 minutes in this case. The collie looked likely to bite even so.

It turned out the dogs were owned by just one of the group. She came running up shouting orders to the dogs and apologising to us. The dogs took little notice of the commands. In the end she resorted to running down the track we had just emerged from and calling the dogs names. This worked and the last word we heard was 'Thankyou'. Unfortunately, after being threatened by her pack of dogs for a few minutes, we weren't in the mood to exchange niceties.

I hope the owner doesn't just dismiss the incident as being just part of the afternoon's dog walk. It should be taken as a warning to do something about training that behaviour out of the dogs. If not, sooner or later, they are going to do this to a child who will not stay still until the dogs are called off. Hate to think of the consequences of that.

Discussing the incident afterward, my brother said he was starting to size up the ins and outs of giving the collie (the worst one and seemingly the leader of the pack) a good hard kick, which would hopefully hurt it enough to stop it going for our ankles. I thought this was risky. As soon as he'd moved his leg to do this the dog might well have latched onto it. If it had, I wouldn't mind betting that the others would have followed suit. No, under the circumstances, we did the right thing by just not moving.

Anyway, if he had given that dog a damaging kick the law would probably come down on the side of the dog and its owner rather than him. We are still trying to decide on what to do about dogs like that.

I think the problem could be solved to a certain degree by not just fining owners but by gaoling them. Many dog owners are morons. I was being intimidated by a dog recently,it was barking,growling and trying to bite/nip my legs. As much as I love animals I don`t let them bite me so I booted the dog in the ribs. This sounds pretty savage to me even as I type it but the dog was having a go and the owner barely noticed what was going on,though they did try and have a verbal go at me for kicking their dog[they lost the slinging match when I showed them the rip in my pants and proceded to explain to them exactly how I felt about their apathy when the dog was at me]. I`ve also had litigation scared owners deny that their dogs have bitten me even when it occurred directly in front of them! I think it`s a amazing situation to be in when a dog is attacking/threatening and people have to worry about their actions whilst defending themselves. Hit the owners of uncontrolled dogs hard with serious wallet/purse hurting fines and gaol repeat offenders and owners of dogs that have really savaged someone and eventually owners will take responsibility for the actions and attitudes of their dogs. It does sound like you haven`t tried the foul smelling liquid spray approach yet Tellywellies? I`m still waiting for the royalties from the ideas I suggested some time ago btw .

Disclaimer: check your local laws before following my advice!

I hike a lot, and often have problems with people who have their dogs off their leash. They think it's OK because they're in the woods or otherwise far away from the beaten path. As you described, dogs often run up to my barking and sometimes growling in a threatening manner.

I looked for ways to protect myself and, sometimes, my family. What I found was a product that you can get in PetsMart called "Grannick's Bitter Apple." You'll find it by the potty training supplies, or you can just ask the clerk. It's used to keep dogs/cats from chewing/scratching on things. It's completely harmless, but dogs *hate* it. One spritz in the face will send that dog running and it won't come back...but it won't complete disable and potentially harm the dog like a pepper spray would.

Unfortunately, spraying it at the owner is illegal. Darn.

Barbara

I wish I had that product when I was in grade school. I lived in a mountain region where nobody lives on streets - there are only roads, and most of them are dirt. I used to have about a 20 minute walk to catch the bus for school and my neighbor lived two minutes up the road. He owned this really mean looking dog, I can't even remember now what kind it was, some kind of Cujo mutt. Anyway, he was NEVER kept tied up. Every single day this dog would come running up the road barking and trying to bite me. I was only about 10 at the time and usually had no fear of dogs, but this one was really threatening, so I would turn around and slowly walk back home. My mother worked in the morning and I would have to get myself to school, so she wasn't home to drive me to the bus stop. I missed school numerous times because I was too afraid to walk past that house. We even called him several times and asked that he tie his dog up or keep him fenced up in the mornings, but the next day I would head to school and there was that devil of a dog!!

The point of my story is that, yes, some dog owners are stupid and inconsiderate. I walked the same way, at the same time, everyday and he still left his dog out to chase after a little girl. Those are the people who should not be allowed to own dogs.

People aren't jailed for beating their animals to death, or starving them, or owning savage dogs that DO bite (at least not here) so I can't see anyone being jailed for owning a threatening or mean dog. Too bad. As the owner of an extremely unaggressive dog myself, I'd love to see some system of real fines and punishments for out of control, aggressive dogs. I've never been badly threatened by a dog, at least not since adulthood, but when a strange dog is jumping up on me, barking, following, and so on, I have had some success with the same words and tone I would use on my own dog if he was misbehaving. "No! Bad dog!" in that "you are in bad trouble, buddy" voice has made a couple of naughty dogs go and lie down. I don't know if it would backfire when used on a really savage dog, though. So often a really mean dog has been mistreated, and could react badly to a reprimand.

When I go for my walks, I take a "walking stick" with me. I haven't been stopped by any large dogs, but I have been charged at by small to medium sized dogs. I've never had to use my stick; I usually just stop in my tracks and keep an eye on the dog, but never looking the dog in the eye. That's considered a challenge to the dog, As long as I don't look directly at the dog, so far just standing still works because the dog barking will usually bring their owner to call pooch back to them. But if I have to use my stick for defense, as much as I love dogs, I'd have to use it to protect myself.

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If I do use your method of delivering some kind of foul smelling liquid to put the dog off, I'll make sure you get suitable remuneration for the idea

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As for using some sort of spray as defense, be sure the nozzle is set for "spray" and not "mist" .

It might keep it entertained, mystified even. Doesn't aftershave come in spray bottles yet, perfume does. Can't you tell that I don't have a man in my life?

Just make sure that the underarm deodorant compliments the aftershave. Conflicting smells can be a bit of a turn off.

Perhaps that would be the answer Martin, Brut on your face and Old Spice under your arms - that should be enough to put the most revolting of old dogs off!

Seriously though, I wouldn't want to be a postman.

You could have hit on an idea with nice smelly perfumes. Dogs usually like to smell of bad things given a choice (our dog used to roll in some awful stuff sometimes!). Maybe a dog sprayed with Chanel Number 5 would lose self respect and retreat with embarrassment.

The trouble is that the perfume spray going on the dog would depend on the wind blowing in the right direction. It could end up going on me ...then there'd be some explaining to do when I got home!

I have zero tolerance for people who can't or won't control their dogs. Both of my parents have been bitten by dogs. My dad was bitten twice (once while he was in our own yard) and my mom was bitten once. I was really angry and scared the time my mom was bitten because she was walking down our street, carrying my baby brother at the time. She was bitten right in front of the persons house and the owner was in the yard, listening to headphones which she claimed made her unable to hear what was going on.

Those incidents all happened while I was in elem. school so as a kid I was terrified of dogs. I've mostly gotten over my fear of dogs, but if one tried to bite me or anyone else near me I'd have no second thoughts about using pepper spray if I carried any, law or no law. And don't think I woudn't give a passing thought to spraying the owner if they were really being carless with a dangerous dog.

We have a neighbour who owns a large Boxer. She got into the habit of letting him out on his own to do his duty where ever he pleased. Unfortunately, it was usually in our front yard. When brought to the womans attention, by asking her to see the package he left, she suggested it belonged to our dog, Topper (half poodle half Shitsu). Even after pointing out that Topper probably weighed less than the package, she denied it could be her good boy, Rufus. I made a concoction of hot paprika, tobasco sauce and water and put it in a squirt bottle. The next time Rufus came to make a delivery, I waited 'til he started to squat and scored a direct hit in his mouth. He took off, without doing his business, and now steers clear of our yard.
The concoction isn't deadly and was actually one mentioned by a dog trainer I know, for keeping dogs and cats out of areas in the garden by spraying it on the ground.
Uncontrolled dogs are a hazard to people and to themselves, as much of a nuisance as he was, I'd hate to see Rufus become road pizza.

They are a nuisance, and not only to people, but to other pets. A good friend of mine was in her own front yard playing with her ferret, when a neighbor's dog jumped their fence and ran into her yard, scooping up the ferret and breaking it's neck. And one afternoon while walking my parents' Scottie, we walked on the sidewalk in front of a neighbor's house and their two large dogs attacked Emma. Emma, being a Scottie, thinks she can take on any ol' dog, but was well out of her league with these big boys. I got bitten trying to tear the three apart to save my own dog. Now, these incidents may not seem as important as those involving humans, and maybe they aren't, but for many of us, our pets are a beloved part of our family, and these dogs do nearly as much damage to our hearts by attacking our pets as they would by attacking us.

I do highly recommend apple bitters, as suggested above, of any brand, Granicks or not. They can be found in sprays and lotions and are excellent for training ANY dog not to bite. Yours or someone else's. And ferrets too. (That's how we trained all of my ferrets not to bite people.)

We're fortunate that in the US there are plenty of laws protecting people (and in many areas, other pets) from unruly dogs. Unfortunately, some of these laws are getting a little carried away, singling out certain breeds which may or may not have been "proven" to have a genetic propensity to violence. Pit bulls, for example, in a town not far from mine, are required to live in a yard with a 7 foot privacy fence and the owners of these dogs must have an additional $250,000 liability insurance policy in case the dog bites someone. Considering there is as much evidence against the idea that these dogs inherintly pose more of a threat than any other breed, I think that takes things a bit too far.

I was thinking about this thread yesterday, while my dog was out in the yard with me, helping me carry the groceries from the car.
A person came walking down the sidewalk towards us, and my dog barked a few times and ran to the guy. Now, he knows he's not allowed to bark unless someone comes on our property, so I spoke to him, and he came to me and sat down. Never got within twenty feet of the person. That's not remarkable, of course. What is remarkable, when I thought about it, is that this is almost never what happens when a dog is barking, chasing, jumping up on you. Usually, if the owner notices at all, they end up chasing their dog, dragging it off by the collar, and so on. It's very rare to see a dog that obeys a spoken command. Maybe we need some sort of competency requirement with a dog license, so that you can't own a dog unless you are prepared to show that you have some basic dog skills. (Yeah,that'll happen!)

I've never been bit and have had dogs a lot of my life; but your post reminded me of a story I enjoy telling about how I was saved from an attack by 2 german shepards.

I lived in the country and would bike to town most days. One way I would go would take me up a hill with a portion just before the crest of gravel rather than blacktop. A house near the crest had 2 german shepards that would come running out to bark at me. Usually I was riding fast enough that by the time they got near I was at the crest where the blacktop began again and there was a two mile downhill ride so I was on my way leaving them behind. Other times the rocks I carried with me kept them away.

One day, however, I slowed down too much on the uphill and the dogs saw me too soon. I threw some of my rocks but the dogs split up for a change going on either side of me. I had to stop and put my bike between me and one of the dogs and try to deal with the other. Just as I ran out of rocks and thought my a** was had 2 giant french geese (about 4' tall) came out from behind the house and took out after the dogs who dissappeared with the geese pecking at their behinds.

I'd never seen the geese before but research told me that they are kept by french farmers as watchdogs.

If I ever become a farmer I want some of those geese!

I've heard about geese as "watchdogs" before; I guess it's because they can make an awful lot of noise.

On a different note, years ago, my sister rescued a goose in a field being attacked by a bunch of cows. There was a circle of cows around this poor goose and they would take turns charging it and stamping at it with their front hooves. My sister said it was the strangest thing she'd ever seen. The goose had a broken wing and was bloody in a few places, but my sis was able to get it away from the cows. Have you ever heard of such a thing?

(edited for spelling error)

The cows were probably getting revenge. Geese are awfully bad-tempered creatures. I've been bitten more than once.

My best friend's family lived in Wisconsin, out in the country. Her father commuted to the city to work; every day on the way home he'd pass this farm that was up on a hill and had a pretty large flock of geese that lived at the top of the hill overlooking the highway. He'd honk his car horn and the entire flock would start honking and hissing back and "chase" the car down the road, wings a-flapping. It was quite a sight.

Maybe we should change the thread's title to "The worst goose incident..."

And more on strange watch animals:

Years ago I went to Greece with my boyfriend. We were walking in the countryside and came upon some lambs. My boyfriend wanted to take a picture of me holding a lamb - I don't know why, I'm not that kind of "fluffy" person but he thought it would be cute. Anyway, as soon as I went anywhere near the lambs, the worlds worst tempered nanny goat came running up and started to chase me, trying to spear me with her horns. My friend just about split a gut laughing, so I suggested HE should try to get one of those lambs for me. Of course he had just as much luck as I did, and we never did get our picture. I got a few of him being chased by the goat though. Later on we saw quite a few instances where some half-grown lambs were babysat by a goat. Talk about the nanny from heck!

When my daughter was 5 I was taking her to a friends house to play. When she got out of the car their dog walked up to her, she put her arm around his neck and he turned and bit her in the face. Today she has a scar almost the full lenghth of her nose and one on her lip. She was fortunate it did not get her in the eye!
The dog was quarantined for 14 days (in case of rabies) and then returned to the owners. They did not even receive a fine even though it was not the first child it had bitten and it was off their property in the road. There are not enough laws when it comes to dogs. (This was in the United States).
Needless to say today she is 22 and just loves ALL dogs.

Some places are better than others, lady1. The laws regarding dogs and dog bites are different for each state, and also have changed quite a bit in the last decade. My daughter got bitten last Christmas by my sister's little dog. He was current on his shots, so no quarantine was required, and they won't press charges for a dog bite unless you do, so no fines for dogs who bite, as it is understood that it isn't always the dog's fault. What I mean by that is, dogs are dogs. People need to understand that, and dogs can't be held accountable for every time they react in the way that is natural to them. My daughter was trying to give my sis a hug, and Eddie was being territorial. Well, I wish Eddie hadn't been territorial at my daughter, but the fact is, everyone in that room should have been aware that he was, and taken more precautions to keep him away from Kit. If Kit had been pulling his tail or chasing him, again, that is hers and our faults because that is how a dog keeps other animals from doing to him what he doesn't want done. Which is not to say that it was your fault your daughter got bit, just that I think many municipalities understand and write into their laws that dog bites cannot always be completely held against the dog OR the dog owners. Anyway, I wouldn't have pressed charges against my sis or her adorable little dog, which never had to leave her side, and I wouldn't have it any other way.