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#220612 - Mon Apr 05 2004 02:14 PM Info about the United Kingdom (very confused!!!)
Geek Offline
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Registered: Mon Feb 14 2000
Posts: 622
Loc: Minnesota U.S.A.
I'm supposed to write a lesson plan about the United Kingdom for one of my college classes. (it's an assignment, and the lesson plan is for a hypothetical elem. school class).

I have some questions that I can't quite seem to clear up.

Is the United Kingdom a "country"?
If so, are England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland countries in their own right?

How do they approach this kind of thing in schools in the UK?

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#220613 - Mon Apr 05 2004 02:22 PM Re: Info about the United Kingdom (very confused!!
sue943 Offline
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This is pretty well covered in a thread in I Need an Answer

Read it through and see if you need any more information
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#220614 - Mon Apr 05 2004 03:18 PM Re: Info about the United Kingdom (very confused!!
TabbyTom Offline
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Registered: Wed Oct 17 2001
Posts: 8479
Loc: Hastings Sussex
England UK
The problem is that the word “country” can have more than one meaning. It may mean a sovereign state as distinct from a colony or territory. Equally, it may mean an area of land which can be disrtinguished in some way from neighbouring areas, even though it isn’t independent.

The United Kingdom is a “country” in the sense of being a generally recognized sovereign state with a head of state, national government, army, navy, diplomatic corps, seat at the United Nations and so on.

Like many countries or nation-states, it has been formed over the centuries by the amalgamation of formerly separate territories. England and Scotland were kingdoms in their own right until 1707 (although the same succession of monarchs ruled over both from 1603). In that year, Acts of Union passed by the parliaments of both countries became law and the two kingdoms were united under the name of Great Britain. Consequently, the English and Scots naturally regard England and Scotland as “countries,” even though they have been subsumed into a larger “country.” Scotland still maintains a separate legal and judicial system from England, though of course many Acts of Parliament apply equally in both countries. Education has also always been legislated for separately in both countries.

Similarly, Wales is generally regarded as a “country,” and is often described as a principality because it usually has a Prince in the person of the eldest son of the reigning monarch. The English spent three or four centuries trying to take over Wales: it was finally officially subsumed into England in the 1530s under Henry VIII. From then until recently there was little or no official recognition of separateness: official statistics and regulations lumped Wales together with England. However, the Welsh preserved their national culture and language pretty well, and so it has always seemed natural enough to regard Wales as a “country.”

For the last few years Scotland and Wales have had a greater degree of independence from the UK’s central government. Scotland has its own Parliament and Wales has its Assembly, with a degree of freedom to legislate for their own countries in certain matters.

I’m not sure whether there’s a word that really characterizes the status of Northern Ireland. It’s difficult to see it as a country in the same way as England, Wales or Scotland. It’s sometimes called a “province,” but that’s a word that has no administrative meaning in the UK; and the ancient Irish province of Ulster included three counties in the Irish Republic as well as the six counties of Northern Ireland. Discussion of this question in depth is impossible without taking account of Anglo-Irish relations over eight centuries, and that would be likely to turn the discussion into a “Controversial Issue”!



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#220615 - Wed Apr 07 2004 09:48 AM Re: Info about the United Kingdom (very confused!!
Islingtonian Offline
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Registered: Thu May 16 2002
Posts: 403
Loc: Er, Islington.
London, UK
A simple way to address this issue is by way of the famous "pudding" analogy.

In this model, the UK can be thought of as an enormous pudding (perhaps a plum duff, or spotted dick), England as the suet, Scotland and Wales as the fruit, and Northern Ireland as a bit of pudding mix that hasn't quite baked properly (or perhaps some foreign object that the chef dropped in by accident and is unable to remove).

To extend the analogy outside our borders, we can see the Republic of Ireland as a bit of the same pudding that has been bitten off by a passing dog. France becomes the gateau on the next plate, the remainder of Europe a selection of zabagliones and creamy amouses-bouches that one might profess to enjoy while secretly fearing it would upset the stomach, and the USA the meat course on the next table.

I hope that clarifies matters. Feel free to use this in your essay. I'm sure you'll get an "A".

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#220616 - Wed Apr 07 2004 11:53 AM Re: Info about the United Kingdom (very confused!!
A Member Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Fri Nov 23 2001
Posts: 3082
Loc:  
Great analogy Islingtonian - If you include other mixes that have to be included on questionnaire to be ethnically fair the only one which doesn't appear is English

I was born fairly close to the centre of England, never lived outside of the county I was born in. I do resent having to tick British (I'm in favour of the Irish, Scots and Welsh having their own governments) - I'm ENGLISH born in England of English parents. grand parents. and great grandparents (haven't got any further back but I can safely say there isn't going to be any other nationality involved.
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#220617 - Wed Apr 07 2004 12:56 PM Re: Info about the United Kingdom (very confused!!
Ballykissangel Offline
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Registered: Fri Jul 12 2002
Posts: 4643
Loc: Halifax Nova Scotia Canada    
I liked your analogy as well, Islingtonian.
Just one question. Where would Canada place on your menu?

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#220618 - Wed Apr 07 2004 01:12 PM Re: Info about the United Kingdom (very confused!!
A Member Offline
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Just below BAKED ALASKA
Sorry (couldn't resist it)
John


Edited by Fosse4 (Wed Apr 07 2004 01:13 PM)
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#220619 - Wed Apr 07 2004 01:18 PM Re: Info about the United Kingdom (very confused!!
Ballykissangel Offline
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Registered: Fri Jul 12 2002
Posts: 4643
Loc: Halifax Nova Scotia Canada    
That's a good one John!

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#220620 - Wed Apr 07 2004 03:53 PM Re: Info about the United Kingdom (very confused!!
Geek Offline
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Registered: Mon Feb 14 2000
Posts: 622
Loc: Minnesota U.S.A.
Thanks for the information. I hope my geography professor agrees. He's a very strange guy.
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I have a catapault. Give me all of your money, or I will throw enormus rocks at your head.

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#220621 - Thu Apr 08 2004 02:31 AM Re: Info about the United Kingdom (very confused!!
Islingtonian Offline
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Registered: Thu May 16 2002
Posts: 403
Loc: Er, Islington.
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I'd say Canada would be the crackling on the USA's beef.

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