I would have given that Romanian girl a 9.2
she had many bobbles and checks during that routine
you're talking about the vault, right? or the uneven bars?
they aren't very good at either apparatus

apparently Romanian female gymnasts are born to do floor and beam

The a-bars, I didn't see the vaults last night, we skipped rot 1. Uh ... ok, I don't think we can talk without you actually seeing what happened tonight. I am not happy. The people there were gutted, you could see it from their faces. The commentators had quite a few question marks as well. Watch it and then we can talk

From what I saw, I didn't see anything that was extremely outrageous. The Americans deserved silver or bronze, but the Russians faltered as well.

And before you ask, no - I'm not always rooting for the Americans... I end up either rooting for the underdog or a country that has better outfits (in this case, I liked China and Ukraine) .

Just wondering, is there a reason the men and women don't do the same exercises (apart from the fact that the men do more)? Like the men don't do the beam, and the women don't do the rings?

You mean the women? Oh they deserved the medal, that is without a doubt but in a way that is what angers me the most in these things. They do not need the help. And they did get just enough to make sure they were still in the competition for the gold after the beam.

Hey I almost always root for the underdog, this case Russia, no matter how weird that sounds ... I like the American girls, loved that team in Atlanta, still think it was one of the best competitions I ever saw. In general I dislike when people get awarded marks they don't deserve - don't care where they are from. It ruins the competition but we have seen this so many times now that I just react to even the slightest "gift" - we should be beyond this and it somehow never happens.

Ugh, I hated the US Atlanta team - all that melodrama and 'heroic status' annoyed me.

The problem with gymnastics is that there isn't a clear, concrete way of measuring - it's all based upon what people see.

That's why I like sports like track etter - you know when you win because you get to the end first.

uh...it takes some serious strength to do the rings
you want body building gymnastics?

I mean, these poor girls already have no necks.

and men are too big and tall to do beam

this is just how the sport evolved.
girls get four: vault, uneven bars, floor, balance beam
boys get six: vault, high bar, floor, rings, parallel bars, pommel horse

ah...screw it...
I just checked the olympics website

OK...9.5 9.5 9.4 9.1 9.8 9.8
and Paul Hamm wins
huh...was that vault a 10 start value?
falling is only a .5 mandatory deduction
if everything else looked good maybe it was OK
maybe he had great amplitude?
I'll have to watch and see

obviously had he landed his vault
this conversation would not be happening
damn, he just tore it up on the bars.

I might be pissed tonight again...

OK, good point about the rings (and the necks ). Don't know about the beam however... And they could do the same bars, right?

beam is tough enough already
only 4 inches wide
you think a 5'8" guy could do that?
his feet are too big
and because of the height he would have a higher center of balance
really screwing things up
no, I don't think so

and I like have the different bars
parallel and high for boys
uneven only for girls
it differentiates between the two disciplines

I couldn't imagine doing the uneven bars
they would have to set the bars so far apart
so I wouldn't hit them

Ah you couldn't wait ah? Well he got a 9.137 and the starting value was 9.9 but you should have seen it - he went flying when he landed, or tried to, fell way to the side hitting the desk. And he won by a margin of 0.012 over a guy who was really good all night ... and the judges took their time over deciding his score, the phones were working overtime ...

But it was a good competition, thrilling really. Oh you have no idea how badly I felt for the other American! What a mistake in tactics by his coach to make him go to the final rot of rings with a starting mark of 9.5 when he was 3rd at the time!

yeah, I just kinda had to know

maybe it was a new move
a kinda superman after the vault manuever


according to the press,
the Korean dude who was second
just didn't make any mistakes
but was not spectacular either

Paul Hamm was spectacularly bad
and spectacularly good
he has some of the most difficult blind release moves
I've ever seen on the high bar

The Hamm landing ah? Well you could say it was popular tonight, especially done in the middle of the high bar for a lot of them

Oh he was really good at the high bar, deserved the mark, but I wouldn't have given him the same one on the par. bars, that seemed a bit too high.

I don't know, yes the Korean wasn't spectacular but he was good, very good all in all. And Hamm is a great gymnast but you know, he is not exactly Sherbo ... just seemed totally unfair, and definitely the result of what he got for his vault.

well, nobody is Sherbo
or Nemov for that matter

ah...past Olympic glory

Looking at some of the other performances, it seems like the judges on the vault gave good scores all around for people who performed difficult vaults, even if their landings weren't exactly up to snuff.

For example, Yang Wei got a 9.5something on a vault where he went flying not just out of bounds but off the mat entirely (though he stayed on his feet), and a Romanian gymnast got a 9.85 for a vault where he took a big step on the landing (the vault itself was incredible except for that, however)

Maybe the judges were thinking the missed landings on vault were results of nervousness and not just plain not being able to do them...? It was neat seeing the other guy (forget what country) who came after Hamm do the same vault and do it well - nice landing he had.

Daniel Suciu: "I do not have any complaint about my score. The only thing I can say is that the USA got something more than it deserved. I am sad and bitter. I felt that I had the medal in my hand and I lost it."

Marian Dragulescu: "Everyone got a fair judgement, with the exception of the USA, who got a little bit more."

Kim Sung-ho, manager of men’s technical committee at the Korea Gymnastic Association: "In usual circumstances, one wouldn’t get a score more than 9.0, but it happened that way"

The sad thing is in a couple of years all people will know is that Hamm got the gold, and the true champion, well nobody will remember him.

The true champion *is* Hamm. Anything else is just someone's opinion of what they believe should have happened.

No, not really. There is a difference between being a champion and a true champion - the first is Hamm, the second is Korean. And no, anything else is not just someone's opinion because we have had these things before and we have it now, and we will have it again and unless at least those who watched make a difference then they might as well pack it in and not compete at all.

Yes, really. You could sit and nitpick through every single gymnast's performance and come up with completely different scores.

The point is, Hamm technically is the champion. Some might argue SK should have won, or ROmania, etc., etc. But that's all it is - arguing and opinions.

News, news!!!

The second Korean got a lower starting mark at the vault by 0.1 by "mistake"!!! It just came out! Now if you add that to what he got he is 1st! They are demanding for the scores to be changed, if not that then at least an official apology which in essence does say who is the real champion! Ha!

Hehehe - sort of like what happened to the Equestrians. Someone from near my hometown had gotten bronze, then the Germans or French protested, putting them in first and the guy from my hometown now has nothing...

In cases where it's a judge's mistake, I think unless the medal moves you up, you shouldn't be kicked down a notch.

ya gotta love controversy

Marian Dragelescu's vault is just sick
I love watching him
triple somersault with a half twist

you just sit there waiting for something spectacular

This reminds me of those two Canadian figure skaters two years ago. Didn't they give out an extra medal back then?
It wouldn't be very nice to Hamm to take his medal away. Although it wasn't nice to the Korean guy either of course to not give him his gold medal in the first place.

Peg - where did you find this information? I've trolled all the sites I can think of (NBC, BBC and the official Olympics site) and can't find any mention.