#244231 - Sat Sep 25 2004 02:04 AM
Re: Wars Against Terrorists
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Multiloquent
Registered: Mon Feb 10 2003
Posts: 2167
Loc: Sydney NSW Australia
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"In which cases have the conventional forces been defeated?" Cuba. Castro started out as a terrorist,[many might say he was a guerrilla fighter but that`s just semantics] well he was a terrorist fighting against a semi-former terrorist anyway,Batista[Batista defeated political opponents using terrorist methods].
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Responds to stimuli, tries to communicate verbally, follows limited commands, laughs or cries in interaction with loved ones.
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#244233 - Fri Oct 01 2004 01:57 AM
Re: Wars Against Terrorists
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Forum Adept
Registered: Fri Nov 28 2003
Posts: 174
Loc: The Netherlands
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The Malayan campaign or 'Emergency' springs to mind. This was jungle guerrilla warfare (same as Vietnam) fought from 1948-1956. The Malayan guerrilla fighters fought on the side of the British during WW2 against the Japanese. However, on seeing how easily the Japanese had conquered their country, and how the British and Commonwealth forces folded and capitulated at Singapore, this gave the guerrillas fresh heart.These guerrillas had communist sympathies and were known as the Communist Bandits or CT's. White plantation owners were the early targets for the CT's, and after a few were killed the colonial government of the time declared a state of emergency in Malaya. In 1948 British and Commonwealth forces were dispatched and the long jungle warfare campaign began.
By 1956 the communist threat was virtually over and Malaya achieved her independence the following year (as a non-communist country and amalgamating with North Borneo thus creating the state of Malaysia).
The colonial government forces actually won this campaign through sensible policies and just plain common sense. A 'Hearts and Minds' policy was adopted towards the inhabitants and the Empire troops had also learnt the art of jungle guerrilla warfare from their previous enemies, the Japanese.
Here's a bit of trivia (and that's what this site is all about after all)
Future Ugandan madman and dictator Idi Amin fought on the British side with the 'Kings African Rifles' during this campaign.
Edited by Mexico (Fri Oct 01 2004 05:28 AM)
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The meek shall inherit the Earth. But only when the strong let them.
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#244237 - Sun Oct 03 2004 11:31 PM
Re: Wars Against Terrorists
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Multiloquent
Registered: Wed Nov 12 2003
Posts: 2165
Loc: Nebraska USA
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I wonder which, the Founding Fathers of the US or their British Loyal neighbors, would be considered terrorist by today's terms. Surely the minutemen were "irregular troups" and surely they used guerilla tactics, though against regular army. I'm sure, though, that plenty of civilians were killed by both parties during that conflict.
As another bit of food for thought, were the "savage" native Americans the terrorists, or were American soldiers? Were they both terrorists at one time or another, and both noble at other times? One was a conquering force, the other a defending one, but if history books are to be believed, both also did their share of killing and terrorizing civilians.
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Goodbye Ruth & Betty, my beautiful grandmothers. Betty Kuzara 1921 - April 5, 2008 Ruth Kellison 1925 - Dec 27, 2007
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#244238 - Mon Oct 04 2004 11:59 AM
Re: Wars Against Terrorists
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Anonymous
No longer registered
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the early American settlers would have been regarded as terrorists
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#244239 - Mon Oct 04 2004 01:52 PM
Re: Wars Against Terrorists
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Moderator
Registered: Sun Apr 29 2001
Posts: 4095
Loc: Norwich England�UK���ï...
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It seems that warfare often favours the irregulars provided they are well organized and can more or less match the regulars in weapons - at least at the level of the infantry.
Consider, for example, the Boer War (1899-1901), which I regard as one of the most shameful wars in British history. It took a force of 250,000 (!) Britons to defeat about one-tenth of that number of Boers. Moreover, despite this numerical superiority, in some areas the British Army cleared the terrain of civilians, in order to deprive the guerrillas of shelter and food. The civilians were sent to camps, called "concentration camps", and their houses and farm buildings were burned down. Worse still, conditions in many of the camps were so appalling that an estimated 22% of the prisoners perished ...
Despite the British military victory, the long term result was a legacy of often intense hatred on the part of Afrikaners. The cost of victory was very high indeed, especially in moral terms.
That said, I don't accept the view that these camps were comparable to the later Nazi concentration camps, though undoubtedly some of the commandants were psyochopaths. There were questions at the time in Parliament, criticism in some newspapers, pamphlets and books, and the campaigner Emily Hobhouse managed to visit some of the camps, write and speak about the conditions in the camps and raise money in Britain to help relieve the distress of the women and children there - and later, on their release. That required immense courage, not least because the British government and army were keenly aware that in Continental Europe, some commentators were writing Britain off as a great power and in some cases even talking and writing about the country as if it were a huge laughing-stock ...
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#244240 - Mon Oct 04 2004 02:06 PM
Re: Wars Against Terrorists
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Forum Adept
Registered: Fri Nov 28 2003
Posts: 174
Loc: The Netherlands
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"Some commentators were writing Britain off as a great power and in some cases even talking and writing about the country as if it were a huge laughing-stock" In my view, the Boer War was the beginning of the end for the British Empire. I think it was Bismark who once said that the British army could be easily arrested by the German police force.
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The meek shall inherit the Earth. But only when the strong let them.
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#244241 - Mon Oct 04 2004 02:25 PM
Re: Wars Against Terrorists
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Moderator
Registered: Wed Oct 17 2001
Posts: 8479
Loc: Hastings Sussex England UK
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The forces of the Roman republic finally managed to put down the revolt of Spartacus, though it took them something like two years to do so. This might be seen as one victory for regulars over irregulars.
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#244242 - Wed Oct 06 2004 01:36 PM
Re: Wars Against Terrorists
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Moderator
Registered: Sun Apr 29 2001
Posts: 4095
Loc: Norwich England�UK���ï...
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Quote:
I think it was Bismark who once said that the British army could be easily arrested by the German police force.
I wonder who said this? It doesn't sound Bismarckian to me: he was generally cautious in his assessment of Britain. In fact, it sounds more like Kaiser Wilhelm II or a member of the German General Staff in the period c. 1900-14. I'd be very suprised if anyone in Germany still believed that kind of thing by 1915-16 ...
The start of the decline of the British Empire deserves a thread in its own right. Certainly, by about 1880 some observers in Britain were commenting on growing *economic* competition from Germany and the U.S.
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