#252728 - Mon Jan 03 2005 06:25 AM
Re: INTERNATIONAL AID
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Forum Adept
Registered: Sat Dec 11 1999
Posts: 175
Loc: New York USA
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I saw tape of the helicopter throwing supplies. I also saw the interview with the pilot. The people were rushing the helicopter until all the supplies were gone. The people with the most serious injuries were evacuated. A 10 man medical evaluation team and more supplies were then sent.
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doc322
Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.
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#252729 - Mon Jan 03 2005 07:09 AM
Re: INTERNATIONAL AID
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Enthusiast
Registered: Fri Sep 24 2004
Posts: 396
Loc: Off the Shoulder of Orion
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I love all you American haters. To you we can do no right. Its not enough that we give 350 MILLION DOLLARS, oh no. You must then examine how the money is distributed and deduce from that that America is evil. The truth is, you just hate America and you can't apologize becase that would mean that you were addmitting you were wrong.
_________________________
"Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."
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#252730 - Mon Jan 03 2005 07:10 AM
Re: INTERNATIONAL AID
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Moderator
Registered: Thu Sep 30 1999
Posts: 12593
Loc: Kowloon Tong Hong Kong
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It occurs to me that maybe the FT members who are dissatisfied with the way things are run, who is giving, who isn't, who is giving late, who isn't organising things satisfactorally should take a trip over there and oversee proceedings. I have given what I can. I am full of admiration for the relief helpers. I am wondering what else I can do but give what money I can . Like most people I am feeling helpless and useless.We should maybe try to support and encourage those who are there, not damn their efforts at every turn.No one is perfect. I know I couldn't do it better.
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Wandering aimlessly through FT since 1999.
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#252731 - Mon Jan 03 2005 08:01 AM
Re: INTERNATIONAL AID
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Anonymous
No longer registered
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Quote:
I love all you American haters. To you we can do no right. Its not enough that we give 350 MILLION DOLLARS, oh no. You must then examine how the money is distributed and deduce from that that America is evil. The truth is, you just hate America and you can't apologize becase that would mean that you were addmitting you were wrong.
The biggest problem is that all Americans have to ADVERTISE the fact that they have given SO MUCH to a fund that they were shamed into giving.If Bush had not mentioned a figure but had said the USA will do all in its power to help, then there would be none of this senseless bickering.Another one of Bush's faux pas.
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#252733 - Mon Jan 03 2005 01:32 PM
Re: INTERNATIONAL AID
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Anonymous
No longer registered
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LADYMACH AND REN , I think you are missing the point , the post is about international aid and you are advocating individual aid
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#252734 - Mon Jan 03 2005 01:54 PM
Re: INTERNATIONAL AID
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Multiloquent
Registered: Tue Dec 28 2004
Posts: 2813
Loc: Hertfordshire<br>England UK
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This tragedy is clearly getting worse by the day, and there must be many thousands of bodies which are now in a state of decomposition. Overworked but dedicated medical personnel have described how they are already having to remove maggots from wounds, so who knows how bad it will get in days and weeks to come. Not surprising then that emotions run high in this and other forums, and like Ren many of us will feel helpless, and probably angry too.
I hate to think what will happen when disease starts to spread, as it surely will from contaminated water and maybe other sources. I've suffered dysentry type diseases myself, and can tell you they're worse than anything most people can imagine. Without immediate medical treatment, and adequate supplies of clean water, life will be short for many survivors of the tsunami.
As regards which governments give the most, it's pretty irrelevant so long as the efforts are as efficient and properly co-ordinated as possible. Providing aid to these unfortunate people is not an international competion, and I doubt if many people in developed countries will experience any noticable fall in their living standards due to the private or government donations to the tsunami appeal.
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#252735 - Mon Jan 03 2005 02:13 PM
Re: INTERNATIONAL AID
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Mainstay
Registered: Sat Mar 03 2001
Posts: 571
Loc: Sykesville
Maryland USA
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Well put Aramis. It is sad to me to see that more people overlook your insight to this tragedy and just use this as another opportunity to trash America.
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Gravity, not just a good idea....It's the law!
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#252737 - Mon Jan 03 2005 02:54 PM
Re: INTERNATIONAL AID
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Multiloquent
Registered: Tue Dec 28 2004
Posts: 2813
Loc: Hertfordshire<br>England UK
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This tragedy is so enormous that it's almost inevitable that mistakes will be made, probably quite a lot too. It certainly puts things into perspective when we get annoyed because the car won't start, or we've suffered a minor injury, etc, etc. Huge numbers of people have lost literally everything, their homes, their livelihoods, and close family members, and no efficient insurance company to compensate them either.
I watched George Bush's appeal earlier today, when he was flanked by his father and Bill Clinton. Although I am no fan of his, I must say I admired his sincerity and think he really has the 'bit between his teeth' now. With Clinton and Bush senior in charge of the appeal for aid and it's distribution, there is real hope for those devasted by this tragedy.
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#252738 - Mon Jan 03 2005 03:19 PM
Re: INTERNATIONAL AID
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Anonymous
No longer registered
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I still think you and others are missing the point ,the original post made by me was too show that the amount of aid given by the developed countries has decreased in real terms.Having agreed to a figure of 0.07%,most countries do not even come close to this figure and all have different reasons for doing so.
I originally posted it to give credit to the Scandinavian countries who have kept their promises but others have taken it to be an attack on countries who are providing aid in this particular emergency.I believe that the United Nations are the best organisation to deal with emergencies, with NO individual nations trying to gain political capital.
Now I expect to get a message attacking the work of the United Nations but I truly believe that an organisation which is truly neutral is what is needed to look afer the social ills of the world
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#252739 - Mon Jan 03 2005 03:36 PM
Re: INTERNATIONAL AID
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Moderator
Registered: Wed Mar 15 2000
Posts: 16214
Loc: The Delta Quadrant
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Quote:
I still think you and others are missing the point ,the original post made by me was too show that the amount of aid given by the developed countries has decreased in real terms.Having agreed to a figure of 0.07%,most countries do not even come close to this figure and all have different reasons for doing so.
Yes, but I believe the figure you were quoting was only the amount of aid given through a UN program.
Quote:
I believe that the United Nations are the best organisation to deal with emergencies, with NO individual nations trying to gain political capital.
Now I expect to get a message attacking the work of the United Nations but I truly believe that an organisation which is truly neutral is what is needed to look afer the social ills of the world
Yes, but that's your belief. Other countries believe that the UN is a puppet of the US, would do anything to get 'back at' the US, etc., etc.
Personally, I think the UN isn't perfect, but it's the best thing we've got right now. But I do think there are a LOT of politics and personalities at play that should be taken out of the equation if the UN is going to truly be 'above' the petty bickering.
_________________________
"Without the darkness, how would we see the light?" ~ Tuvok
Editor for Television Category
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#252741 - Tue Jan 04 2005 06:47 AM
Re: INTERNATIONAL AID
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Explorer
Registered: Sun Oct 26 2003
Posts: 54
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The $350 million pledged by the US government is not the only money that will be coming from the US, of course. American corporations are pledging significant amounts, such as Pfizer Inc.'s pledges of $10 million cash and $25 million in drugs to relief agencies. Naturally, private donations by American citizens will be considerable as well. Let's not forget charitable organizations such as the American Red Cross, either. I don't think anybody needs to worry about Americans not pitching in.
A journalist on a Channel 7 special report last night said that US and Australian military forces have been instrumental in getting the food and water where it's needed. American military spending often strikes me as excessive but it does make a rapid response to such a disaster possible.
As an American, reading this thread distresses me. Time and again I've seen disasters such as 9/11, Bali, and now this used ghoulishly as a way to point fingers and make political statements. It's not that I think that the US doesn't make mistakes or cause problems, it's just that after a while it all looks like so much axe grinding and scapegoating.
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#252742 - Tue Jan 04 2005 12:20 PM
Re: INTERNATIONAL AID
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Enthusiast
Registered: Wed Jun 30 2004
Posts: 463
Loc: Dubai, UAE
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Quote:
Oh, apparently Dubai has sent a plane load of fresh water bottles, and is organising a charity 'fun-run' to raise funds for the tsunami appeal.
Oh, and might I also add that being a resident of Dubai, I might have a slightly better grasp on things here. Dubai gave a plane load of water bottles for the simple reason that that was what most required at the time in the affected areas (Re: the little fact that you happen to die in around 8 days if you don't have access to water  )
Let's not make judgements here. Any nation's government will give what it sees fit, and we frankly have no right to criticise any nations contribution, be it the US's, or the United Arab Emirates. Let's not sully a humanitarian disaster with political bickering.
_________________________
Life is like Pi, natural, irrational, infinite, and very important.
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#252743 - Tue Jan 04 2005 01:04 PM
Re: INTERNATIONAL AID
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Mainstay
Registered: Sat Mar 03 2001
Posts: 571
Loc: Sykesville
Maryland USA
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I agree with Tester 100% on this one.
The America bashing and Bush hating on this site have reached epidemic proportions. Enough is enough already. To use a tragedy such as this to forward your own personal political agenda is not just distressing, it's disgusting. Of all the anti-America threads I've endured on this site, and others, this one is the most perverted and shameful. So, what America and Bush does is not enough to satisfy your desires? I'm guessing those of you complaining the loudest have not donated a single penny to the relief effort. It would be typical of the hypocrisy I believe you have.
As an honest, hard working American I'm sorry I don't have the time to donate more of my personal insights to respond to the many America and Bush haters out there. It's pointless anyway. Just suffice it to say that when you've been right about the mistakes Americans in general and Bush in particular have made, I've agreed with you. Your problem is that you don't know when to stop. If an original thought ever entered your head it would probably explode. Instead, it's always just so easy to jump on the current fashion bandwagon of sticking it to the good old USA while we are down. Personally, I've always thought it's so easy to criticize those that do. When one does nothing, it's hard to make mistakes. Backpedaling on the issue now that you know the facts doesn't change the statements made. Even in giving, we Americans seem to do it all wrong. Wish I had time to say more, because I have a lot more to say.
I will end by telling you I'm a conservative American that does not believe Bush and America have always made the best decisions, but I believe our hearts are in the right place. I'm a capitalist and I voted for Bush. To date I have only given one tenth of one percent of my annual income to the relief effort. By all accounts, I seem to fit the mold of what many of you believe to be wrong with this world. Perhaps you can now shift your scorn from America in general, and Bush in particular, and aim it at me directly. Since you're always right, I must deserve it.
_________________________
Gravity, not just a good idea....It's the law!
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#252745 - Tue Jan 04 2005 03:41 PM
Re: INTERNATIONAL AID
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Moderator
Registered: Wed Mar 15 2000
Posts: 16214
Loc: The Delta Quadrant
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Posting as a moderator, I just want to give a heads up that the constant barrage of bashing from either side isn't appropriate. The Current Events forum is for discussion of such, it's not a replacement for controversial issues or an open forum for ranting about whatever irks you in the world.
_________________________
"Without the darkness, how would we see the light?" ~ Tuvok
Editor for Television Category
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#252747 - Tue Jan 04 2005 07:16 PM
Re: INTERNATIONAL AID
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Anonymous
No longer registered
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I would have thought that you have been a member of the forum long enough to know that this is not the place to make personal attacks for people holding a different opinion than yours or perhaps you have a problem wih my original post.I see there is only mockery in your comments and no alternative opinion is offered.Also please note LADYMACH29 message
Edited by cwm52 (Tue Jan 04 2005 07:18 PM)
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#252748 - Tue Jan 04 2005 07:42 PM
Re: INTERNATIONAL AID
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Multiloquent
Registered: Sun Sep 30 2001
Posts: 2521
Loc: Norwich
England UK
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Give us a minute,
I'll be right back
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"I'll be back before you can say antidisestablishmentarianism!"
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#252749 - Wed Jan 05 2005 01:07 AM
Re: INTERNATIONAL AID
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Anonymous
No longer registered
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#252750 - Wed Jan 05 2005 05:31 AM
Re: INTERNATIONAL AID
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Multiloquent
Registered: Sun Sep 30 2001
Posts: 2521
Loc: Norwich
England UK
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Quote:
I would have thought that you have been a member of the forum long enough to know that this is not the place to make personal attacks for people holding a different opinion than yours or perhaps you have a problem wih my original post.I see there is only mockery in your comments and no alternative opinion is offered.Also please note LADYMACH29 message
Personal attack? 
Old mate,
I apologise most profusely if my post has offended your, obviously, sensitive demeanour. Please believe me when I say there was no 'mockery' intended, I just have a sense of humour. Whether people find that sense of humour amusing or not is entirely their own affair.
As for no alternative opinion being offered. I thought that was what I was doing? i.e. You appear to think that the US is the 'Great Satan' and I don't. There you go, alternative opinion offered. End of story.
If you're wondering where I've 'just got back' from. (Probably not.  ), I was visiting a forum that was neither 'funny' nor 'trivial'. A forum where I myself am neither funny or trivial. A forum that is not called 'FunTrivia'. A forum that is entirely more appropriate for discussing certain types of issues. I, myself, visit FunTrivias forums for 'fun' and 'trivia'.
Mate, if only you embraced your freedom instead of feeling guilty about it, you may not feel the need to constantly rail against it. ?
wez
_________________________
"I'll be back before you can say antidisestablishmentarianism!"
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#252751 - Wed Jan 05 2005 11:26 AM
Re: INTERNATIONAL AID
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Moderator
Registered: Wed Mar 15 2000
Posts: 16214
Loc: The Delta Quadrant
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OK, as this thread has degenerated into people attacking each other, it's closed.
_________________________
"Without the darkness, how would we see the light?" ~ Tuvok
Editor for Television Category
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