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#254196 - Thu Jan 13 2005 05:52 PM New Quiz Queues
Wallarobba Offline
Explorer

Registered: Thu Dec 30 2004
Posts: 51
Loc: Sydney
NSW Australia
I strongly disagree with FunTrivia's 'criteria' to determine who gets served first when they submit a quiz. I think that you should get served the order you submitted the quiz, as I'm one of the not-so-good quizmakers. At least even *look* at my work and not just ignore it?

Wallarobba


Edited by Wallarobba (Sun Jan 16 2005 07:33 PM)

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#254197 - Thu Jan 13 2005 09:52 PM Re: New Quiz Queues
MotherGoose Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Mon Apr 22 2002
Posts: 4849
Loc: Western Australia
Dear Wallarobba,

You registered in the forums on December 30 and in the two weeks you have been on this part of the site, you've made 20 posts, most of which are related to complaints and negative comments.

You've complained about our communications systems not being private, even though it is made quite clear in numerous locations on this site that the message systems can be accessed by others for legitimate reasons. It is not FunTrivia's function to be a private e-mail service.

You've complained in two different threads about the American content on this site. The website originated in America and I am fairly certain has more American members than any other nationality, yet you have suggested that we deny these members access to their quizzes for a while – heaven knows how or why you think this would be fair or achieve anything positive. If you don't wish to play American quizzes, then don't play them, but don't deny other members their rights please.

You've dredged up a few old inactive threads for no apparent reason other than to have a whinge about something which does not appear to have directly affected you.

Now you are complaining about the quiz editing process even though you have no quizzes on-line. Your quiz-maker bio suggests that you did submit one quiz but deleted it rather than adhere to the category guidelines. It also shows that your quiz received an editor's attention the same day that you submitted it, so your work has not been ignored and your complaint is clearly invalid.

Nobody minds the odd negative comment but you seem to be overdoing it a bit, don't you think?
_________________________
Don't say "I can't" ... say " I haven't learned how, yet." (Reg Bolton)

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#254198 - Thu Jan 13 2005 10:33 PM Re: New Quiz Queues
Wallarobba Offline
Explorer

Registered: Thu Dec 30 2004
Posts: 51
Loc: Sydney
NSW Australia
Quote:

Now you are complaining about the quiz editing process even though you have no quizzes on-line.




I'm sure I will have one, as long as editors edit it.

Quote:

Nobody minds the odd negative comment but you seem to be overdoing it a bit, don't you think?




Ok, then I'll stop posting negative comments.

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#254199 - Thu Jan 13 2005 11:01 PM Re: New Quiz Queues
eytank Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: Fri Sep 24 2004
Posts: 396
Loc: Off the Shoulder of Orion
I am not a complainer as a rule, and usually only post uplifting messages (yeah right) but this time, I agree with Wallarobba and wish to complain in this instance.

Quote:

I strongly disagree with FunTrivia's 'criteria' to determine who gets served first when they submit a quiz. I think that you should get served the order you submitted the quiz, as I'm one of the not-so-good quizmakers. At least even *look* at my work and not just ignore it?





The truth of the matter is, I don't find it fair either. I know that someone like the JAZZKICKAZZ writes a heck of a lot better quizzes than I do, but does that mean that he should get a quiz let in every five minutes and it takes me a month. The quizzes should be a matter of first come first served, in order of submitions. It is biased against people who have joined only recently, who haven't yet developed the perfect skills to make a quiz. Just my opinion
_________________________
"Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

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#254200 - Fri Jan 14 2005 04:15 AM Re: New Quiz Queues
MotherGoose Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Mon Apr 22 2002
Posts: 4849
Loc: Western Australia
Please let me try to clarify your complaint by stating that the quiz queuing procedure does not discriminate against NEW quiz-makers. From your point of view, it is biased again POOR quiz-makers. There is a difference! If a new quiz-maker submits a high-quality quiz, it goes straight to the editing queue with almost the same priority as a quiz from an experienced quiz-maker such as Jazz or myself.

Rather than being a way of discriminating against newer members, what the priority system is intended to do is reward ANY quiz-maker who makes the effort to check the category guidelines and actually adhere to them, who takes the time and trouble to write a well-thought-out quiz with interesting trivia, and who takes an active role in the editorial process by carefully proof-reading their quiz and submitting it with minimal typographical, spelling, punctuation and grammar errors.

On the other hand, those quiz-makers who throw a quiz together haphazardly, full of errors, and expect the editors to do all the fixing up for them, will find their quizzes taking lower priority.

Quizzes are never "ignored" and even the poorest of quizzes receives relatively prompt attention from the editors. Editors have the ability to see how long each quiz has been waiting and it is very rare for a quiz to be waiting more than a few days without a very good reason.

If you feel your quiz is taking too long to be processed, then it is within your power to do something about it by making sure that your quiz is your very best work. If you have genuine problems with quiz construction, approach an editor politely. They love to help quiz-makers who care about their quizzes and have made the effort to meet the requirements.
_________________________
Don't say "I can't" ... say " I haven't learned how, yet." (Reg Bolton)

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#254201 - Fri Jan 14 2005 05:56 AM Re: New Quiz Queues
Wallarobba Offline
Explorer

Registered: Thu Dec 30 2004
Posts: 51
Loc: Sydney
NSW Australia
Quote:

You've complained about our communications systems not being private, even though it is made quite clear in numerous locations on this site that the message systems can be accessed by others for legitimate reasons. It is not FunTrivia's function to be a private e-mail service.




You must be mistaken. I was not complaining in that forum and just asking if editors can read PMs. I just wanted an answer : Yes or No. Instead, many people came to me, not answering my question but talking about other stuff related to my question, which made me look like a complainer. But, as for the other posts you said about, it's true and I'll try to stop complaining.

Wallarobba

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#254202 - Fri Jan 14 2005 06:07 AM Re: New Quiz Queues
picqero Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Tue Dec 28 2004
Posts: 2813
Loc: Hertfordshire<br>England UK
Quote:

You must be mistaken. I was not complaining in that forum and just asking if editors can read PMs. I just wanted an answer : Yes or No. Instead, many people came to me, not answering my question but talking about other stuff related to my question, which made me look like a complainer. But, as for the other posts you said about, it's true and I'll try to stop complaining.




Unfortunately it does seem to be the case that a question or discussion point is readilly taken out of context, and so-called 'answers' then given to anything but the point which was raised. Anyone raising a query or expressing disagreement on such matters as funtrivia editing, American policy, etc is likely to be accused of having a go at all the funtrivia editors, or hating all Americans, etc, when such is quite definitely, and usually obviously, not the case!

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#254203 - Fri Jan 14 2005 09:10 AM Re: New Quiz Queues
ladymacb29 Offline
Moderator

Registered: Wed Mar 15 2000
Posts: 15910
Loc: The Delta Quadrant
As Mothergoose says, the queue orders do NOT discriminate against new authors, only those who have CONSISTENTLY submitted poor submissions.

We give you several chances to submit a quiz that is at least spell=checked and looks like you read the guidelines. But if there is submission after submission that looks like you haven't even bothered to look at the quizzes already online/spell-check/read guidelines, your author rating will be lowered.

Having a lower rating does NOT mean we'll never see your quiz - it just means you'll have to wait longer. Eventually your quiz will rise to the top of the queue (even above authors like Jazz).

What this system does is reward those who consistently submit superior quizzes. Those good authors submit quizzes that require very little effort - so it's only natural that (in order to clear out the queues more efficiently), the editors look at the best quizzes first because they require just a quick glance. Those written by authors who still don't 'get' what is needed in a quiz require a lot of editing (sometimes upwards of an hour) - why make all the other authors wait for their quizzes to be edited because someone is lazy and doesn't bother to spell-check?

I find the system extremely fair. If you put in the effort and time to make a good quiz, then your quizzes should be looked at first. Conversely, someone who hasn't bothered to read the guidelines or even spell-check shouldn't have their quizzes looked at first - why should we jump at editing their quizzes when they don't act like they care about their own quiz?
_________________________
"Without the darkness, how would we see the light?" ~ Tuvok

Editor for Television Category

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#254204 - Fri Jan 14 2005 11:31 AM Re: New Quiz Queues
picqero Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Tue Dec 28 2004
Posts: 2813
Loc: Hertfordshire<br>England UK
Dear LadyMach, nice statement and most interesting. However I'm unsure why your response was addressed to me as I'm in complete agreement with you, and haven't at any time questioned any of the issues you raise.

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#254205 - Fri Jan 14 2005 11:45 AM Re: New Quiz Queues
ladymacb29 Offline
Moderator

Registered: Wed Mar 15 2000
Posts: 15910
Loc: The Delta Quadrant
I didn't address my statement towards you. I read in the 'flat mode' and not threaded forums so I generally click on 'reply' to either the first or last post, whichever I happen to read last.
_________________________
"Without the darkness, how would we see the light?" ~ Tuvok

Editor for Television Category

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#254206 - Fri Jan 14 2005 09:07 PM Re: New Quiz Queues
onlytrivial Offline
Explorer

Registered: Tue Jan 11 2005
Posts: 65
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
ladymacb,

What exactly does the editing process invovle? Do the editors have to check every question to make sure the answers are correct? If they do, I can understand why it could take a lot of time to edit quizzes. How do the quiz authors get a rating? Do the editors rank their submissions after editing them?

It sounds like a time-consuming but rewarding job being an editor!
_________________________
Why can I never think of something funny when I need to?

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#254207 - Fri Jan 14 2005 10:08 PM Re: New Quiz Queues
ladymacb29 Offline
Moderator

Registered: Wed Mar 15 2000
Posts: 15910
Loc: The Delta Quadrant
The editors check everything in a quiz - spelling, grammar, facts (as much as possible), placement (category) and to see if the quiz actually works.

If you are consistently a good author (makes changes when asked, makes good quizzes, etc), then you have nothing to worry about.
_________________________
"Without the darkness, how would we see the light?" ~ Tuvok

Editor for Television Category

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#254208 - Fri Jan 14 2005 10:49 PM Re: New Quiz Queues
MotherGoose Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Mon Apr 22 2002
Posts: 4849
Loc: Western Australia
Re: "You must be mistaken. I was not complaining in that forum and just asking if editors can read PMs. I just wanted an answer : Yes or No. Instead, many people came to me, not answering my question but talking about other stuff related to my question, which made me look like a complainer. But, as for the other posts you said about, it's true and I'll try to stop complaining."


My apologies, Wallarobba. You are quite correct. I guess my perception was clouded by your other posts.


In response to onlytrivial's questions, the editing process is too complex to explain it here. However, you might find the following useful.



Ten ways to get your quiz on-line faster AND get a good quiz-maker rating:

1. Pick a topic about something you know about and are interested in. If you are interested in something, then there is a good chance other people are also interested in it and the quiz will be easier to write.

2. Check the general and specific category guidelines. You'll find all sorts of information that is useful - like which subcategories are closed or whether FITB questions are allowed, etc.

3. Do your research (even if you think you know all about the topic) to eliminate factual errors.

4. Check pre-existing quizzes on the same topic to make sure you don't duplicate the quizzes that are already there.

5. Write the quiz in your own words (do not plagiarise).

6. Try to make your questions, answers and interesting information as interesting as possible. Don't make your interesting information section merely a restatement of the original question. The interesting information section should contain some interesting trivia or it should elaborate on the original question and/or correct answer.

7. Construct your quiz in a wordprocessing program so that you can run it through spelling and grammar checkers to make sure as many typographical, spelling, punctuation and grammar errors as possible are eliminated. Then you can cut and paste it into a quiz template.

8. Ensure that your quiz does not contain slang, abbreviations or chatspeak as these tend to discriminate against players whose native tongue is not English.

9. Ensure that your quiz does not contain offensive language. FunTrivia is a family site and we are very strict about content which may offend other members.

10. Heed the advice given by the editors.


We get many quizzes that are barely readable because of the numerous spelling, punctuation and grammar errors. Editors will send such quizzes back to their authors for proof-reading and correction. You can assure yourself of a lower quiz-maker rating if you persist in resubmitting it without having made any corrections, particularly if you reply with a "not an error" message or if you assure the editors that you have fixed up all the errors when we can plainly see that you haven't. You wouldn't believe how often this happens. I never cease to be amazed at quiz-makers who assure me that they can't see any errors in their quizzes and yet they haven't even got period marks or full stops at the ends of their sentences! Quiz-makers who persist in submitting quizzes full of errors and who do not co-operate with the editors by ignoring the correction notices will receive a lower rating, as Ladymacb's post clearly outlines.
_________________________
Don't say "I can't" ... say " I haven't learned how, yet." (Reg Bolton)

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#254209 - Sat Jan 15 2005 04:24 AM Re: New Quiz Queues
picqero Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Tue Dec 28 2004
Posts: 2813
Loc: Hertfordshire<br>England UK
Quote:

I didn't address my statement towards you. I read in the 'flat mode' and not threaded forums so I generally click on 'reply' to either the first or last post, whichever I happen to read last.




What is 'the flat mode' ?

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#254210 - Sat Jan 15 2005 04:36 AM Re: New Quiz Queues
Leau Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Sun Jun 16 2002
Posts: 5337
Loc: Nijmegen/Brisbane
If you go to the display preferences in your My Home section, you'll see a drop down menu called Default display mode. Try changing it from threaded mode to flat mode and you'll see what it looks like. It basically means that all posts are chronologically shown, irregardless of whose post they're replies to.
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The cost of living has not affected its popularity - Loesje

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#254211 - Sat Jan 15 2005 09:03 AM Re: New Quiz Queues
blurrystar1 Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Fri Jul 11 2003
Posts: 546
Loc: Victoria Australia
As this thread seems to be posting questions to editors, I'll ask mine.

How much time, generally speaking, would an editor spend on editing quizzes during one week?
I know editors are all volunteers but you still put in the effort *thumbs up*
_________________________
In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends ~ MLK

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#254212 - Sat Jan 15 2005 10:15 AM Re: New Quiz Queues
agony Online   content

Administrator

Registered: Sat Mar 29 2003
Posts: 14973
Loc: Western Canada
We are all so different, it's hard to give an answer to that question. Personally, I get in one or two long session a week, where I can spend two to three hours editing. The rest of the week, I can get in for maybe fifteen minutes at a time.
In a long session, I will look at maybe a dozen (depends on the quality, if they are good quality quizzes, maybe more) quizzes that have never been edited. I will put the quizzes online if possible, otherwise make suggestions to the authors, and send them back. Then, during the rest of the week, I will monitor resubmissions. If I only have a few minutes, and can see from the first question or two that the author hasn't really paid attention to my suggestions, I will leave that quiz for until I have more time. So, if your quiz has been sent back for spelling errors, and you still have an error right in the title or introduction, rest assured that your quiz will be waiting for a while.
Other editors will have different methods, this is just me. We all have in common, however, real lives with obligations. Most of us have jobs, and the others are in school full time. Most of us have families, social lives, and other volunteer work. I know it's hard to wait several days for an answer to a question, but quite often an editor won't have been online for a few days, and won't have seen your question. Also, sometimes we need to confer among ourselves as to an answer. This, also, takes time.
The one thing that you can count on is that the amount of work you put into your quiz before submitting will really pay off in response time.

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#254213 - Sat Jan 15 2005 10:50 AM Re: New Quiz Queues
crisw Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Mon Feb 21 2000
Posts: 5745
Loc: California USA
I edit several times a day. As I am the only editor in my categories, I try to make sure no quiz waits longer than a half a day or so to be edited.

But sometimes even I go on vacation
_________________________
Senior Editor and Site Administrator
"I'd rather make one dog happy than please all the dogmatists in the world."
P. Z. Myers

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#254214 - Sat Jan 15 2005 11:33 AM Re: New Quiz Queues
Bruyere Offline
Star Poster

Registered: Sat Feb 10 2001
Posts: 18799
Loc: California USA
I tend to work like Agony and many of us, as with family, work and activities, I'll do a few quizzes on a busy work day that do not require much attention, and then when I get a free hour or two, I'll go in and tackle the ones that require complete overhauls. As I try to tailor-write my notes to each person and be honest about the quizzes pros and cons, it takes time.
I think our system is quite good and it has been greatly improved over the years I've served as an editor here.

Now here's something I often do, if I do see a quiz title in the queue that has a spelling error in it, I'll have a look at it BEFORE I do the others, because chances are that the quiz will have many errors and the person really needs to go back to the guidelines. Many times, a detailed note would be totally counterproductive for the person who's written the title in all caps with a spelling error.
When I really feel the person isn't ready, I suggest they take more quizzes as well. I prefer to be frank as, they've essentially submitted an envelope without an address, postal code or stamp to us. I am known for being fair, however, if the person really isn't ready to write quizzes, I'll guide them to the guidelines, quizzyland tuneups, and taking more quizzes. As our system prevents you from making one until you've taken one hundred, people assume that's enough. But personally, I took three hundred before I dared submit one and I was an experienced test writer from teaching large classes.
I'm sure that isn't the case of anyone writing a post in this thread, but, if your quiz does have serious problems to be taken care of, then it will slow everyone down.

When you do look at the queue for a given category, you don't see the types of quizzes in the queue. So, there might be something specific waiting for an editor well-versed in that field. If the person is away, then it will make the queue look ancient.

Now, one of the things that comes with experience is trying to think of how your quiz would look to someone else. Zooming out and seeing it like another person would.
So, the questions and answers are the tip of the iceberg, and the information is beneath it.
_________________________
I was born under a wandering star.

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#254215 - Sat Jan 15 2005 01:04 PM Re: New Quiz Queues
bloomsby Offline
Moderator

Registered: Sun Apr 29 2001
Posts: 4074
Loc: Norwich England UK            
It's useful to bear in mind that editing new quizzes isn't the only function performed by editors. Other jobs in FT include such things as ensuring that quizmakers respond to correction notices, for example.

Sometimes, if a there's a correction notice on a quiz whose author doesn't appear to have been active on the site for a very long time, editors may decide to check the facts themeselves, make any necessary corrections and reply to the player who sent the correction notice. A moment's thought will make it obvious that this can be very time-consuming.

Many editors are also Moderators in the Forums. Moreover, like everyone else, editors play quizzes. This is most important if they are not to get out of touch. They also create their own quizzes - in short they do many of the things that other quizmakers do.

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#254216 - Sat Jan 15 2005 01:36 PM Re: New Quiz Queues
ladymacb29 Offline
Moderator

Registered: Wed Mar 15 2000
Posts: 15910
Loc: The Delta Quadrant
For me, between monitoring the forums and editing, probably about 10 hours a week or so.
_________________________
"Without the darkness, how would we see the light?" ~ Tuvok

Editor for Television Category

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#254217 - Sun Jan 16 2005 07:24 PM Re: New Quiz Queues
Wallarobba Offline
Explorer

Registered: Thu Dec 30 2004
Posts: 51
Loc: Sydney
NSW Australia
Quote:

I edit several times a day. As I am the only editor in my categories, I try to make sure no quiz waits longer than a half a day or so to be edited.




I wish I could make up a quiz in that category, I can then just stop playing the waiting game and get onto business. The current quiz I've submitted is in one of the busiest categories on the site.

Wallarobba

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Moderator:  agony