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#254223 - Fri Jan 14 2005 02:16 AM prince harry
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Was Harry , third in line to the throne of England a tad insensitive?


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4173453.stm

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#254224 - Fri Jan 14 2005 04:51 AM Re: prince harry
ren33 Offline
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I think, if you think about it a bit, you may decide that when the "sensitive"genes were handed out, the whole family didn't collect many.
Personally, if that were my son he would get throttled, or worse. Spoilt, insensitive little brat comes to mind.I find it embarrassing to be British.
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#254225 - Fri Jan 14 2005 08:58 AM Re: prince harry
ladymacb29 Offline
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How could he have thought that was an appropriate costume? Didn't someone see him and go 'um... you might wanna think twice about that' before going out the door? Probably not as he's royalty and you can't tell royalty what to do.
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#254226 - Fri Jan 14 2005 09:52 AM Re: prince harry
eytank Offline
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It is frightening to think that a man (really an infant) who would casually dress as a Nazi, is third in line to the throne. At this moment int time, England and the rest of Europe is trying to combat anti-semitism, not add to it. His family has been known as Nazi sympathizers in the past. Hopefully, he just did it as a joke (albeit an unfunny one) and will learn from his mistakes. Doubtfull, but possible.
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#254227 - Fri Jan 14 2005 11:23 AM Re: prince harry
picqero Offline
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Quote:

It is frightening to think that a man (really an infant) who would casually dress as a Nazi, is third in line to the throne. At this moment int time, England and the rest of Europe is trying to combat anti-semitism, not add to it. His family has been known as Nazi sympathizers in the past. Hopefully, he just did it as a joke (albeit an unfunny one) and will learn from his mistakes. Doubtfull, but possible.




In fairness to the royals, only one member of the family showed any Nazi sympathies. This was Edward VIII, who became Duke of Windsor. Accompanied by his wife, he visited Nazi Germany and met Hitler. In itself this meeting does not prove that even he was a sympathiser. Harry's father Prince Philip served throughout the war with distinction in the Royal Navy, and actually survived his ship being sunk. His mother also did her part serving throughout the war. Harry's grandparents, the former King George VI and Queen Elizabeth (the Queen mother) deliberately remained in London throughout the war, risking the blitz and nazi bombing, when they could easilly have taken up residence in one of the more 'remote' and safer royal residences.
On Prince Harry, he clearly demonstrated his ignorance and lack of feeling on such an important issue. British television, the BBC, this week showed the first part of a major series about the Nazi persecution of the Jews, Slavs, and Poles, and the Queen herself this month is to attend a tribute to those who perished in the Concentration Camps. Harry must have been fully aware of all this, so his conduct is all the more inexcusable.
Many people, including his aunt, the Duchess of York, have said that he is only young and the world media is over-reacting. Personally, I do not accept this. He is 20 years of age, and has received the best education possible. Throughout his life he has been exposed to political and media issues which should have made him aware of the attention wearing this 'uniform', even for fun, would get. At 20 years of age, he isn't a child, he's a man, and younger men than him are presently trying to bring order to Iraq and Afghanistan. Many thousands of younger men and women also fought, and died, against Nazi tyrany. Harry has attended many services in tribute to these brave men and women, which makes his wearing this uniform even more odious.
His Press Office have issued a statement on his behalf apologising for his callousness, but this will never be accepted by those he has so badly offended. A Press Office statement is something prepared by an expert assistant, and is not a personal apology. If Harry really wishes to redeem himself in the eyes of the world, he should go on national television and apologise personally. He need not subject himself to any interview, but unless he apologises personally and soon, he is likely to be interviewed for the rest of his life at every opportunity over this issue. I do not believe Harry has the slightest sympathy for the nazis or any other tyrranical regime, but he needs to grow up quickly and accept that his priveleged role also carries responsibilities.

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#254228 - Fri Jan 14 2005 11:43 AM Re: prince harry
ladymacb29 Offline
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Oh, I TOTALLY agree about that statement! We write them all the time with 'quotes' from our officers that they never said. Someone (in an article at MSNBC.com) said that the written apology was enough - and my head almost hit the roof. He probably hasn't even read the statement, much less write it!
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#254229 - Fri Jan 14 2005 11:49 AM Re: prince harry
picqero Offline
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Quote:

Oh, I TOTALLY agree about that statement! We write them all the time with 'quotes' from our officers that they never said. Someone (in an article at MSNBC.com) said that the written apology was enough - and my head almost hit the roof. He probably hasn't even read the statement, much less write it!




Dear LadyMach - I think your response may be to a different thread of mine?

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#254230 - Fri Jan 14 2005 01:06 PM Re: prince harry
ladymacb29 Offline
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Aramis - not everyone views the forums in the threaded/tree view. Most of us read it with the posts all listed in the order that they were posted. Therefore, many of us don't pay attention to which post we click 'reply' to.
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#254231 - Fri Jan 14 2005 01:40 PM Re: prince harry
bloomsby Offline
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Oh, what a spoilt, dim-witted brat of a playboy Harry is! It's sad that the Royal Military Academy, Sandhurst thinks(?) he's "officer material", especially coupled with the doubts about his 'A' level [school-leaving exam] results. N'doubt they feel oh-so-honoured, not so say *obliged* (prounounced "obligeed" in this context [?]) to have a "royal" there.

I'm coming round to the view that Oliver Cromwell had the right idea about the "royals", whatever one may think of him in other respects.


Edited by bloomsby (Fri Jan 14 2005 02:01 PM)

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#254232 - Fri Jan 14 2005 01:41 PM Re: prince harry
Mugaboo Offline
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I think there are probably two groups who object to dressing up as a Nazi are those with personal memories of the war, and those who are anti-monarchist.
Personally I'm not complaining, but I was born after the war. At least until WW2 is totally part of history, any Royal would indeed be a fool to wear it, but the press (as always) make a big issue of it (or at least the part that is anti-monarchist, and the rest feel the need to "keep up with events" by following) .

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#254233 - Fri Jan 14 2005 02:27 PM Re: prince harry
eytank Offline
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Quote:

I think there are probably two groups who object to dressing up as a Nazi are those with personal memories of the war, and those who are anti-monarchist.
Personally I'm not complaining, but I was born after the war. At least until WW2 is totally part of history, any Royal would indeed be a fool to wear it, but the press (as always) make a big issue of it (or at least the part that is anti-monarchist, and the rest feel the need to "keep up with events" by following) .




I'm not sure if I'm reading you correctly, and if not, I apologize. I don't think WWII will ever become "totally part of history" as you so callously have said, because it is not simply a war. The swastika is an Indian symbol for peace, yet now it is looked upon as one of the vilest representations of evil. You can't simply dismiss the objection to wearing such a symbol because of war memories or ant-monarchists. I was not born during the war, but that doesn’t mean I don't care. What Harry (I don't think he deserves the prince part anymore) did was morally reprehensible and terribly insensitive, considering that a ceremony for the anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz is being performed in a few weeks time.


Edited by eytank (Fri Jan 14 2005 02:27 PM)
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#254234 - Fri Jan 14 2005 02:38 PM Re: prince harry
ladymacb29 Offline
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Quote:

I think there are probably two groups who object to dressing up as a Nazi are those with personal memories of the war, and those who are anti-monarchist.
Personally I'm not complaining, but I was born after the war. At least until WW2 is totally part of history, any Royal would indeed be a fool to wear it, but the press (as always) make a big issue of it (or at least the part that is anti-monarchist, and the rest feel the need to "keep up with events" by following) .




I'm not anti-monarchy and I'm not old enough to remember Vietnam, much less WWII. But to dress up in a Nazi uniform for a fun gathering? I can understand for something like a play or re-enactment, but come on!
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#254235 - Fri Jan 14 2005 03:22 PM Re: prince harry
argus9 Offline
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I've seen news reports that Prince William was with him at this party. Dressed as a lion or leopard or some such. You would think the older brother would have had the brains to say something. Ah perhaps they don't get along, he couldn't be that mean spirited could he? Or as stupid as his brother.
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#254236 - Fri Jan 14 2005 03:47 PM Re: prince harry
ladymacb29 Offline
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According to one article I read, William was with Harry when he picked out the costume. I don't know if William had said something or if it was the author of the article's opinion, but William should share part of the blame.
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#254237 - Fri Jan 14 2005 07:22 PM Re: Prince Harry
picqero Offline
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One good thing to come out of this unfortunate episode is that awareness of the holocaust has been increased dramatically. According to a couple of news reports I've heard, almost 70% of teenagers in the UK hadn't heard of the holocaust before the Prince Harry episode.
Maybe he should be 'congratulated' for unwittingly bringing such publicity to this vile part of world history!

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#254238 - Fri Jan 14 2005 09:49 PM Re: prince harry
onlytrivial Offline
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Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Quote:

He is 20 years of age, and has received the best education possible.




I would have to object to this. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to attend Eton, surrounded by insular, egotistic and pompous little rich kids. How pleasant!

Sorry, but I had to have a rant about my opposition to aristocratic elitism.

Back to the subject, I think Harry's insensitive actions highlight how out of touch with reality the royal family is, and how Harry is still an immature brat. If only we could elect the monarchy!

Fortunately, the monarchy is only ceremonial. Still, it's not good publicity for Britain when one of its figureheads starts toting a Nazi uniform.
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#254239 - Fri Jan 14 2005 10:07 PM Re: Prince Harry
quogequox Offline
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Wouldn't you just love to go to one of those parties! I wonder how long I would last with a collection of upper class twits patting each other on their superior backs.
I heard somebody say that Harry's stupidity shows he may not be suited for life in the armed forces. I would have thought that he's right on target.
When i first saw the picture I didnt thnk of Holocaust survivors or victims, I thought that of all the British soldiers that died fighting the Nazis.
Terrible or not the Holocaust will eventual slip into the realm of history, regardless of how P.C we are. THe Mongols, Huns, and countless others have performed bloody violent acts, including acts of genocide. I cant recall a toga party ever being called anti-semetic, yet the Romans persecuted the jews. Time heals all wounds?
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#254240 - Sat Jan 15 2005 12:17 AM Re: Prince Harry
lothruin Offline
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Eh, you know, I think Harry, despite his publicity and royal upbringing is still just a kid. I mean, notwithstanding his age, but gees, I have to tell you, I've known my fair share of similarly insensitive and/or absolutely rebellious 20 year old boys in middle-class Nebraska. (Heck, I had a friend who dressed as an abortion doctor, complete with a cupie doll in a jar, for a Halloween party when he was 22...) I'm not defending such behavior, I'm just saying it doesn't take a spoiled and out-of-touch upbringing for a child to behave like that. (And 20 is still a child, especially for males. Sorry to say it, but it's true, and I'm not that far past it.)

What I guess I'm getting at is that the he-should-have-known-better argument, while true from our perspectives, may actually not be. Perhaps he's just chomping at the royal bit? Making a bit of trouble for the family simply because he can? Again, doesn't take being a rich kid to do that, but even we Americans have our well-publicized examples. (Do the Bush daughters ring a bell?)

Was his choice of costume ill-advised, insensitive and foolish? Absolutely. But for pete's sake, he's a kid, and a kid in a position I wouldn't trade with him for all the world. Was his choice of costume defensible? Absolutely not. But I also don't think he should be crucified and shunned. Perhaps he is just a spoiled brat, but perhaps he knows it and his choice of costume was an intentional way to garner bad press for his family. Sheesh, kids do that ALL the time. "What IS the best way for me to get real attention? Is it getting good grades? Blending in? Playing nice?" Not usually. The squeeky wheel gets the grease, right?

Ah, anyway, I think he was a stupid, er, donkey? However, I'm not the type of person who pussyfoots around things, and I'm not going to turn this into an anti-semitism discussion because I don't think it's neccessary. And I'm going to remind myself that while being a royal doesn't excuse him from bad behavior, it also doesn't excuse him from fairly typical adolescent behavior. Not being British myself, I don't hold them anywhere near a pedistal, and therefore, I expect them to act as all humans act, taking the good with the bad. And that little stunt, while phenominally foolish, doesn't prove to me he's an evil human, it proves to me he's a human.
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#254241 - Sat Jan 15 2005 12:57 AM Re: Prince Harry
ren33 Offline
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There are still plenty of British people to whom the very sight of a swastika and the sound of the name of Hitler bring shivers up the spine, me included. Never never can this be overlooked and excused as "he is just a kid". If anything is to be blamed, apart from him and his pompous,insensitive family, it is the people who gave him his wonderful, privileged education. Our students, being taught here in the international school where I teach, are taught the horrors of WW2 very thoroughly, at age 11. It would never (by the time their learning project is finished)occur to them to mock such a horrific time in our history. These are children from 30 or more nations in the world, by the way. So what gives his royal highness the excuse for such an insult? Nothing.Absolutely nothing, my friends.
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#254242 - Sat Jan 15 2005 02:17 AM Re: Prince Harry
damnsuicidalroos Offline
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Let the young prince wear whatever he chooses to in private or whilst at a private party. For me to comment in any other manner would indicate that he has any impact on my existence.
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#254243 - Sat Jan 15 2005 06:26 AM Re: Prince Harry
ren33 Offline
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Roos, I guess you are right. (like we care?) It was only that I was incensed that this so called Role Model to young people was so insensitive.
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#254244 - Sat Jan 15 2005 06:47 AM Re: Prince Harry
picqero Offline
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Quote:

Let the young prince wear whatever he chooses to in private or whilst at a private party. For me to comment in any other manner would indicate that he has any impact on my existence.




It wouldn't indicate anything of the sort. Commenting would simply mean that you have an opinion, and would be no different to any other opinion in any other forum you may care to post.
If everyone commented only on those matters which affect their existance, these and many other forums would soon dry up completely.

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#254245 - Sat Jan 15 2005 06:55 AM Re: Prince Harry
damnsuicidalroos Offline
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Having an opinion would obviously have some impact on my existence, however small. . Glad that Ren grasped the concept so easily. (like we care?)
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#254246 - Sat Jan 15 2005 09:53 AM Re: Prince Harry
agony Online   content

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I'm reminded of a Halloween party from my youth. I was working at a German restaurant, owned and operated by, frequented by, and partly staffed by German immigrants to Canada, and their children. I was one of maybe six employees without a European background - we also had quite a few Poles, Hungarians, etc on staff.
The staff had an after hours party, (strictly non official - we had a habit of locking the doors, and raiding the liquor room for all night parties, replacing our ravages with quick trips to the liquor store the next day. Owners of restaurants with young staff take note) and one of the waitresses, (with parents born in Germany, who lived through the war) wore a Nazi officer uniform. Drastic renovations around the bosom, and a very short black leather mini, turned it into quite the spectacle. This was, hands down, the most popular costume at the party. Only a few of us seemed to think there was anything wrong with this, instead it was viewed as 'edgy', 'sexy', 'ironic'. Looking back at it now, I wonder what the newspapers would have made of it, if they had known, and if any of us had been important enough for them to care.
I guess that I'm agreeing with Lothruin - bad taste and shocking behaviour are sometimes exactly what a certain type of young person is striving for. They know enough to know that an action will outrage their elders, (which is what they are after) but not enough to truly understand WHY. Prince Charles is taking exactly the right tack, in my opinion - a trip to Auschwitz is in order. A visit to any veterans' home in Britain wouldn't hurt, either.

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#254247 - Sat Jan 15 2005 10:37 AM Re: Prince Harry
bloomsby Offline
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Registered: Sun Apr 29 2001
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I hope readers won't take it amiss if I introduce a note of facetiousness.

When the "awful awfficer" leads his men on manoeuvres - he's never going to posted anywhere dangerous, now is he? - perhaps they'll shout mockingly (and with a strong French stress pattern):

"Cry God, for 'Arry, England and 'ItLER!"


(Apologies to the Bard)


Edited by bloomsby (Sat Jan 15 2005 10:40 AM)

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