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#254248 - Sat Jan 15 2005 10:39 AM Re: Prince Harry
sue943 Offline
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Registered: Sun Dec 19 1999
Posts: 38005
Loc: Jersey
Channel Islands    
Prince Andrew served in the Falklands, that was dangerous and he was second in line to the throne at the time.
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#254249 - Sat Jan 15 2005 11:07 AM Re: Prince Harry
bloomsby Offline
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Registered: Sun Apr 29 2001
Posts: 4095
Loc: Norwich England�UK���ï...
Thanks for reminding me of that, Sue. It has slipped my memory.

Though I'm tempted to go back and edit out my mistake I won't do so, as it would make your post and this one hard to follow - and it's against the rules, too. So, instead I'll apologize for any offence given.

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#254250 - Sat Jan 15 2005 11:09 AM Re: Prince Harry
Bruyere Offline
Star Poster

Registered: Sat Feb 10 2001
Posts: 18899
Loc: California USA
As I've seen a lot of 'artistic statements' or provocative types of costumes at parties over the years, I guess I'm not surprised that someone would do it. I am surprised that someone who knows the press dogs his every steps would do it. And that he wouldn't realize the appalling taste in doing this.
When I was about Harry's age, I attended a party with a lot of supposedly more sophisticated people, art crowds and the like. One woman came dressed as Jackie Kennedy in pink, with pillbox hat, handbag and the hair styled the same and blood splattered on her costume. As we'd all experienced the assassination as children and it was an earth-shaking event for us as kids, we were shocked. I'm sure that some people reacted like the townspeople when the Emporer was supposedly wearing new clothes and said how clever. I didn't. I wasn't even able to stand in the same side of the room with her. I am pretty tolerant, but this reached my threshhold quickly.
So in art crowds, people often try to make points by shocking things. When I taught in art schools, it's just about a given that people are going to come up with disgusting things and call them art. If they are proving a point, then I suppose it's one thing, but this doens't seem to be the case.

It seems a bit old to be doing this kind of 'nanernanernaner aren't I clever?' type of stunts for him, but as he's been raised in a rather strange way since birth, then, I suppose it's normal that he exhibits childlike behavior to get a rise out of people.

I remember a kid at a camp making a swastika in the metal shop to provoke the counselors and leaders of the camp. The father came to pick him up and ripped the swastika out of his hands and spat on it. So probably the kid was doing the one thing that would get attention quickly. The dad had fought in WWII.
Harry hasn't been raised like a 'normal' kid, therefore, it would be unrealistic to expect him to turn out 'normally'.
I don't think his behaviour is as odd in that context.
If I had an opinion on royalty continuing or not, I'd have to say that the more you see, the less you think it's a viable thing for the UK.

God Bless the Queen, as far as I can see, she's the most dignified of the whole lot.
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#254251 - Sat Jan 15 2005 11:09 AM Re: Prince Harry
lothruin Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Wed Nov 12 2003
Posts: 2165
Loc: Nebraska USA
Ah, Agony, you've got it. My post wasn't meant in any way to excuse the behavior. "He's just a kid" isn't really what I was getting at. I mean, he IS just a kid, but that does more to explain his behavior than to excuse it, if you get my drift.

Just from what little I know about the royals, I'm going to guess that the insult in his costume was completely intentional. It wasn't a matter of him not knowing or not understanding how or why the costume would upset people. I think he knew perfectly well. But then, I also don't think this intentional choice was mean-spirited. I don't think he really meant to be hurtful (though I'm guessing he knew it WOULD be hurtful and decided that was an acceptable byproduct of his intended outcome). I think he meant to be shocking. Obviously, it worked. Spoiled or not, rich or not, kids have always throughout history behaved very badly in order to get attention. Just ask a child psychologist. And the older they get, the more chance there is for their attention-grasping behavior to effect more and more of the public. When a child is 5 he may steal a penny candy for attention. When a child is 20 he may hold up a convenience store at gun-point. Of course the fact he's a kid doesn't excuse either action, but surely one should understand the impetus before crucifying them.
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Betty Kuzara 1921 - April 5, 2008
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#254252 - Sun Jan 16 2005 06:59 AM Re: Prince Harry
the_dal Offline
Learning the ropes...

Registered: Thu Jan 13 2005
Posts: 1
If noone had taken the picture, there would be no discussion.

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#254253 - Sun Jan 16 2005 08:16 AM Re: Prince Harry
PurpleFan Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Fri Oct 22 1999
Posts: 2249
Loc: New Westminster BC Canada
he_dal please could you explain your post?

Someone did take the picture so it is reasonable to expect people to be outraged and talk about it.
I think what he did was unforgiveable and he should be make to go to those awful places and talk to the people who survived those terrible atrocities.

I bet HRH Grandma and HRH Grandpa Philip were "Not Amused"

And I am sorry but just because he is 20 he is suppose to be excused for what he did as youthful silliness.
Drinking and smoking and using weed can be put down to youthful fun but wearing that Atrocious Symbol is never ever to be thought of as youthful fun.
PF
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#254254 - Sun Jan 16 2005 01:55 PM Re: Prince Harry
lothruin Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Wed Nov 12 2003
Posts: 2165
Loc: Nebraska USA
I hope you weren't responding to me, Purple_Fan. If so, I think perhaps people are misreading me.

Again, I don't think his age excuses his behavior. And I wouldn't call it "youthful fun" either. It was neither fun nor silliness, and it was not excusable, regardless of his age or upbringing, etc. All I'm saying is, his age AND upbringing may be, in part, the culprits here. Not because he was being silly or having fun. Because he was intentionally misbehaving in the worst kind of way in order to bring attention to himself and his family. This doesn't excuse his behavior, but it might explain it.
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Goodbye Ruth & Betty, my beautiful grandmothers.
Betty Kuzara 1921 - April 5, 2008
Ruth Kellison 1925 - Dec 27, 2007

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#254255 - Sun Jan 16 2005 02:00 PM Re: Prince Harry
ladymacb29 Offline
Moderator

Registered: Wed Mar 15 2000
Posts: 16214
Loc: The Delta Quadrant
Quote:

If noone had taken the picture, there would be no discussion.




And if no one had lived to talk about the Holocaust, there would be no discussion.

But we know about it, so if maybe Hitler had been a little better at killing people would that mean the topic wouldn't be worthy of discussion?
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#254256 - Sun Jan 16 2005 05:43 PM Re: Prince Harry
LilahDeDah Offline
Explorer

Registered: Sat Oct 23 2004
Posts: 97
Personally, I have to say he knew precisely what he was doing and probably exactly how it would be received. He's gotten more attention for this than for anything else he's ever done. Isn't that sad? I'm also in agreement with previous posters about "shockingly outrageous" Hallowe'en costumes...a friend once showed me one that was meant to represent a Catholic bishop as a pedophile. Although I would have said that I had left all traces of Catholic upbringing and feeling behind me, I was nevertheless completely offended. That costume, Harry's, and the others mentioned (abortion doctor, Jackie Kennedy) are just blatant ploys for attention, in spectacularly bad taste. Let Harry apologize, let him learn, let him grow up, let the world go on. Role models are made, not born.

*deedee*
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#254257 - Sun Jan 16 2005 07:20 PM Re: Prince Harry
Bruyere Offline
Star Poster

Registered: Sat Feb 10 2001
Posts: 18899
Loc: California USA
This brings to mind some of the digusting behavior from frat boys (I've never seen the sorority sisters do it much in my teaching days, but perhaps they do). Though they are all of an age when they should be through that phase, they get together in these university sanctioned clubs and groups at some colleges in the States, and do pranks and disgusting things because it's part of the experience of going to some institutions of higher learning.
Because the smaller private schools know that this is one of the main draws of their campuses, they'll get a 'dean' to help clear up the messes.
So no matter what stupid things they do, they have someone to get them out of it. I had a couple of harmless pranks played on me as a prof, like having them cancel the class by writing a note on the board and I'd driven 35 miles for nothing, paid a babysitter and was not amused. And when I complained, the 'dean' said it was just a harmless prank.
I had a few guys say really offensive things and once again, the 'dean' would just dismiss it.
Overdrinking? They pretend like they discourage it, but that's nonsense.

Harry's a bit like a frat boy. He knows he won't ever be sanctioned, he knows he'll never really have to work for a living, no wonder how badly he acts up. I don't justify it, but I've seen similar irresponsible behavior just winked at as if it were normal boys will be boys stuff, and frankly, it gets old after a while.

He's not a normal boy, nor will he ever be. Being a normal boy would do him some good.
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