Over the last weekend (22-23 January) despicable acts of cruelty were inflicted on three kittens. In one incident in outer suburban Sydney, two animals thought it would be clever to throw petrol over one of these little ones, and set it alight. William, as RSPCA vets have christened him, is now only just hanging on to life. One wonders what those ratbags responsible for such sickening behaviour will "graduate" to next.

Quite often, when children do cruel things to animals, they graduate to bigger things, eventually becoming murderers or serial killers. It frightens me when things like this happen, mostly because the courts tend to go easy on kids.

I can never understand why our so-called justice system never seems to apply justice where it belongs - the perpetrator of the crime. No doubt Social Work Reports, and Psychiatric Assessments will reveal that those responsible came from broken homes - sadistic father, alcoholic mother, etc, etc. Vain attempts will be made to rehabilitate them. Unfortunately, in too cases, they will - as you say - go on to commit more serious crimes. BTW, that's a lovely id you have, SiverMoonsong!

Thank you, serendipity.

Calling those sick and sadistic children "animals" is degrading to real animals (ones who can't talk and who have fur or scales), as real animals would never do what those sick and sadistic children did.

A crime like this is always played down and called a "misdemeanor animal cruelty" or "felony animal cruelty." However, if it was done to a person it would be considered "attempted murder."

I'm sure everyone knows my views on this topic, but for those of you who don't, animals should have the same rights as people. There, I've said it again and I'm sorry if some disagree.

Sadly, animal cruelty is part of this world we live in. Just like human cruelty is part of it. And I hate it. However, those sadistic fiends would be less likely to inflict harm on animals and people if the PUNISHMENT for those crimes was just and adequate. Far too often, it isn't.

Just two weeks ago, someone in my community put a firecracker in a poor dog's rear end and set it off. That person has yet to be caught, and the reward is up to $6,500. The person who inflicted such excruciating pain and death on that dog should feel the terror of a firecracker exploding in his or her rectum. But sadly, if that person is ever caught, he or she will probably be slapped with a fine, serve a couple of months in jail and on probation, and then be released to inflict further pain and harm in our community.

How or why people can be so evil and sadistic is beyond me. It's one of life's unanswerable questions.

I feel that the penalties [maximum penalties here ] should be much higher than they currently are for harming animals in Australia [I have no idea what they are in other countries, maybe someone would like to post links]. As Silvermoonsong stated the people that do these types of crimes do go on to other more serious crimes.
That said, the waste of money trying to save a suffering cat [ I have never hidden how I feel about cats in Australia] when a needle will end its misery makes me sick. Put it out of its misery and send the money saved over to tsunami victims.

That makes me wonder why we throw pedophiles, rapists, and murderers in jail. Giving all of THEM a needle would not take away the misery that they've inflicted on entire communities. Nonetheless, it would provide some kind of closure. The tens of thousands of dollars in keeping them alive could then be contributed to tsunami victims.

Yes and I also believe in the death penalty.

Animal cruelty is horrible along with any other kind of cruelty. I do eat meat, and I do believe in the death penalty. As a matter of fact I think people get off too easily in some cases. But anyway, so many people(mind I am not criticizing anyone just voicing an opinion) get focused on cruelty to animals, and don't voice that fact of abortion. You can say they are not human beings and all that nonsense but it's just an excuse to discard a life as if it were an old toy. No regard to what they may have become. This is a shame on our country. What is happening? Why don't the doctors who "murder" these precious lives get the death penalty themselves, or at least go to prison for it.

Thanks for letting me vent my frustrations on you...again I don't intend to hurt anyone by what I just said but firmly believe every word. I'm tired.....

Let's examine the life of a domestic animal raised for food against the wild animal. I'll take the cow v wild deer for example - cow was born possibly in a nice little green paddock but after it's weaned it's probably taken to a feed lot where it walks around on muddy ground, but not too much cause the aim of the feed lot is to fatten them up so too much exercise is a bit out of the question. Then it's off to market! What a wonderful place Babe thought that was cause they must have been so happy they never came back! Awwww. Babe. Cute movie. But we know it's not that great. Shoved on a truck to drive god knows how long then shoved in a yard, cleaned out (ie no food or water cause we don't want a mess) and then ... THEN ... comes along the mallet with a bullet in it's head to create an explosion in the animals brain and let's just hope it works first time. The deer. Out in the wild bouncing a prancing away roaming where it can and then out of nowhere a bullet comes and ends it life before it knows a thing. Just thought I'd say that because if anything the wild animal has the better deal and I don't understand why one would be eaten and not the other.

Quote:

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Now, on to your scenario: If I had the choice to save a drowning man I did not know or my own dog, sorry, but I am going to choose my dog. My reasoning behind this? 1.) I don't know the man...he could be a rapist or a serial killer for all I know and if I save him he may kill me or rape me. 2.) I know my dog. My dog has been with me since he was 8 and half weeks old...I love him and he loves me. His love is unconditional.

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I gotta say this is one of the strangest things I've ever read! You wouldn't save a drowning man over your dog because he might be a rapist and he might rape you after you save him! Chances are good that if he's just been drowning he's going to have a few other things on his mind, like, ohhh I dunno, getting his breath back, than raping the person that has saved him. ANd pity if he might have been a brilliant doctor who could have saved lives. I love my dog, don't think anyone questions that but I'd have to get the man out first and then jump on in for the dog.

Sorry if I offended anyone, but this is my opinion.

Well well, this thread is certainly covering alot of topics.
Before I comment on the drowning man question I`d like to know something.
Is this salt water swallowing soul a violent muslim fundamentalist or not?

Perhaps there should be a questionaire would be lifesavers should give to drowning victims befor saving.

"So are you a violent muslim fundamentalist?"

gasp gulp "NO"

"Have you ever been charged with a violent crime against women?"

gasp gulp "NO"

"Have you ever set fire to a defencless kitten?"

gasp gulp "NO"

"Did you vote Labor in the last election?"

gasp gulp "NO"


"Okay, no to the violent muslim findamentalist, no to the violent crimes against women, no to the setting alight a defenceless kitten and no to voting Labor. Any chance you're a serial killer?"

"NO!" gurgle gurgle

"Okay mate, give us your hand!"

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"Did you vote Labor in the last election?"

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Since this really IS going all over the map I decided to chime in. TW makes a good point, even though I'm not sure if it can be applied to this situation. Maybe it can - the business about pranks. When I was just a little kid me and my buddy found a baby bird that had fallen out of its nest (and we could never find its home, even though that wouldn't have mattered as it would have been rejected had we returned it). A quest for worms ensued and we found an eyedropper to give it water. In the midst of our enthusiasm we gave it too much water and it choked to death. We were appalled that this had happened and never rescued, or tried to, a helpless animal again. Now what that has to do with inserting explosives into a cat's body I'm not sure. The youth and motives seem quite different BUT, if these youngsters come to be seen as just icredibly dumb and are genuinely remorseful as opposed to viscious little humans who find what they did 'funny', then their punishment(while there should definitely be a sturdy one) should be adjusted, I think. If they are the sort who find humor in it and are generally flip then there is much work to do. While they may never become serial killers there is definitely a sociopathic streak building in them.

As for the dog and man drowning I'm afraid they're both up the creek since I can't swim a stroke. If I could swim I don't think I'd debate on who to grab first with myself. There wouldn't be time. They are both lives, important to someone somewhere, so I'd jump in intending to save them both. The first one I got to, whether it has two or four legs, is the one I'd get back to shore first.

What any of this has to do with abortion I haven't a clue. And I don't discuss that subject anyway. Somebody had brought it up earlier, though...

I thought all dogs could all swim. I not calling you a dog Gatsby!

Just a gentle reminder, don't get too het up - this isn't Controversial Issues. Thanks.

Sorry to have stirred the possum!Perhaps this thread SHOULD have been posted in Controversial Issues.

We don't do Controversial Issues these days, that forum was removed which is why I asked for it not to get heated.

Well, what the heck, I'll weigh in with my bit. Back near the beginning of all this, there was a comment:

"No doubt Social Work Reports, and Psychiatric Assessments will reveal that those responsible came from broken homes - sadistic father, alcoholic mother, etc, etc."

The reality is that abused children often go on abuse others. They start with animals and smaller children, and eventually grow up to become, yes, quite often vicious and dangerous men (Note that I said 'men' - in most cases, abused boys tend to focus their grief, hate and rage outwards, while the girls focus inward, hurting themselves, either by self-mutilation or more subtly, by addictions, etc).
The bigger crime here, as I see it, is the abuse these children have suffered. As a society we are all ready to be outraged when we see a child perform a hateful act, but we somehow find it perfectly acceptable to cut back on funding for Head Start programs, for school counsellors who are actually trained to spot signs of abuse in children, and to help them, for social workers, heck, even for daycare workers, who could to some extent counter the ill effects of growing up in a home where you are not safe, where you are not valued, and where violence is the norm.
I know that sometimes, when I have had a bad day, I am tempted to take out my frustrations on someone whom I have power over - I have a fight with my husband, and then yell at my kids for not cleaning their rooms. How much more likely that someone who has had a bad *life*, who has never been treated with basic decency and respect, and who does not have many examples of healthy outlets for rage and pain, will take out some frustrations on an animal?
We need to think a lot less about punishment, and a lot more about our own role in creating these children. Next time you see a kid being yelled at or hit in a parking lot by a parent, and do nothing, think about those kittens.

*laughing* I have to admit I didn't even think of the dog swimming. I also have to admit you don't see many drowning dogs...I think we all know what eachother thinks now. This has been...enlightening.

What fascinating insights into some contributors' attitudes! It certainly 'takes all sorts' as the saying goes. On the 'drowning dog' scenario, I've seen an number of real life films in which attempted rescues of dogs from ice covered lakes are shown, the dog having fallen through the ice and seemingly unable to get out of the water. Brave, some would say foolish, passers-by then crawl out on the ice to 'rescue' the dog, only to fall through the ice themselves. the emergency services then arrive, and with considerable difficulty and some danger to themselves manage to rescue the unfortunate human. While this is happening, the dog manages to extricate itself and walk away, shakes its fur and seems none the worse for the experience!