http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8801092/

An Airbus 340 with 309 people onboard skidded off the runway at Toronto's Pearson airport - and everyone survived with only 'minor injuries'. Looking at the photos, it's amazing. Some of the accounts say that everyone got off within 50 seconds.

[edited the title ]

My heart sank when I saw your thread - I thought this was going to be another bad news story, this time closer to home. How nice to get a 'close shave' story instead!

I too had the same reaction when I saw the headline.
I am so glad no one died or that there were no serious injuries to the people on the ground.
I can not even begin to imagine the terror those poor people had to go through.
PF

I heard there was only 24 that suffered minor injuries, but in a situation like that, I am quite happy that with 309 on board, all 309 survived.

I heard this on the radio this morning. I had just turned the radio on and the news story regarding this incident was halfway through. ".... all 309 people on the flight [insert my own sinking heart here] survived".

Amazing, as non-spiritual as I am the first word that popped into my head was miracle.

Great news, but no miracle. The plane was on the ground when it went out of control. Once a plane is on the ground, the biggest risk is the heat and smoke of burning jet fuel, and if the evacuation is handled quickly and efficiently, that risk diminishes greatly. So no miracle, give credit where credit is due: the crew of the plane.

TORONTO (Reuters) - Investigators dug in for a long search on Wednesday for the cause of a "miracle" Toronto plane crash in which all 309 passengers and crew walked away from the fiery remains of an Airbus A340.

The Air France plane overshot the runway and burst into flames as it landed in an unusually severe storm at Toronto's Pearson International Airport on Tuesday afternoon.

Some 42 people were taken to hospital with minor injuries, most of them sustained as they left the burning plane down emergency chutes. But nobody died.

"It's incredible, it's a miracle," Canada's Transport Minister Jean Lapierre said.

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Sorry to disagree with you Lothruin, but in my mind, when an airplane bursts into flame upon landing and all passengers get off with minor injuries, I'd call it a miracle! Not to take away from theh crew, I'm sure they were brilliant. I just think they were a part of a miracle.

Yeah, I'd say it's a miracle too. Those people evacuated from the plane in less than a minute despite a downpour with lightning striking about once a minute in the area (as per FoxNews' weather person) and had to scramble up a ravine. And having looked at the photos of the burning plane with the large fire, yeah, that's a miracle.

Too each their own. lol, I don't actually believe in miracles, anyway, so it's really not fair of me to say I don't think it was one, because of course I wouldn't. But I also have intimate knowledge of air safety. My dad's a pilot, I worked in the industry for many years, and I have been a regular passenger (and occasional student) since I was 7. I've known an unfortunately large number of people who died in plane crashes, and I've known MORE people who survived them, even spectacular ones.

An example: A plane my family was part owner of plummeted (a scant) 100 ft to the ground right after takeoff and the entire plane was completely engulfed in flames within seconds of hitting the ground. All three passengers crawled through a broken window to safety and sustained only minor injuries, mostly smoke inhalation.

Now, in the case of this plane, the fire had just barely reached the engines by the time most of the passengers had been evacuated. The fire wasn't traveling quickly, the cabin was intact, and the speed with which the passengers were evacuated speaks highly of the crew. Just from looking at the pictures, the fire was initially small, comparatively, and as long as the passengers WERE evacuated with all due speed, they were not in a great amount of danger. (As is evidenced by the fact that most of them did not sustain injuries.) Even after the fire was put out, which takes no small amount of time with the number of highly combustable materials on the average jet, not the least of which is the fuel, a surprising amount of the plane IS left, which tells me that the fire was not as dangerous as it could have been.

Like I said, I don't believe in miracles. But I especially don't like calling something a miracle when there's a perfectly good reason why it happened the way it did. There are lots of folks who would say that any time something like this happens, the hand of God is keeping people safe. It becomes a miracle the crew worked quickly and efficiently. God kept the flames at bay until everyone was safe. I just don't think that's true.

Again, though, too each their own. I can't really argue with you if you DO think it's a miracle, because if you believe in miracles, the you are immanently more qualitifed than I am to determine what is one and what isn't.

Not meaning this in a negative light, but the two men who were being interviewed most prominently by CTV (Olivier Dubos and his friend whose name I forget) were saying that because of where they were sitting and such, they had no contact with the flight crew and thus couldn't attest to how well the flight crew performed in the emergency (one way or another).

So it wasn't just the flight crew doing their jobs that made the evacuation go so well.

*shrug* Well, it still COULD have been the crew. They didn't say the crew was doing a terrible job. They said they couldn't see the crew.

And you're right, it probably wasn't JUST the crew doing their jobs. It might have had something to do with the rain, too. Again, I don't believe in divine intervention (what with not having a deity and all), which is what a miracle is, unless I'm mistaken. I haven't ever seen an event so spectacular that I thought the only way it was possible was through some outside force acting. But I don't think this one was even that spectacular.

But like I said, obviously if you believe in miracles, you're more qualified than I am to determine was you think is or is not one. I can't really argue with that. It's Ok with me, anyway, but I still think the crew, who've been acclaimed by more than one rescue worker, should get their due.

Oh, I totally agree the crew and the rescue workers should get their due. But also should the passengers and fate. I think everything just came together at that point, allowing everyone to survive.

I agree completely with lothruin, this was an example of excellent crew performance and passenger co-operation during an extremely difficult and dangerous situation. Undoubtedly the appropriate authorities and experts will closely examine every aspect of the evacuation to determine how it went so well, and hopefully use their findings in safety advice to aircrew throughout the world.
I recall some years ago, a serious aircrash at Manchester, England airport in which many people died. Some experts at the time felt there would have been far less fatalities if there had been greater speed in evacuation from the burning plane. In fact, rather than passengers queuing up in an orderly manner to evacuate the plane, it might have been far better if everyone had pushed, shoved and panicked! I'm not suggesting this is what happened in the Toronto crash, but whatever did happen must have been 100% correct!

I'm not an expert on plane crashes nor do I play one on TV but I would think that since the plane was at the end of it's journey the fuel tanks would be very close to empty thereby decreasing the severity of the fire. This could be one possible reason for the exceptional survival rate. Just my opinion.

I was out of town (with no access to electricity, let alone a television) and just today saw the pictures. Wow, that plane was practically reduced to ashes. I was amazed when I saw how dangerously close it came to actually coming to a stop on the the highway next to the runway. Thank God for that near miss as can you imagine all those cars having to stop so as not to crash into it, or the survivors jumping out getting hit by the cars? Horrible stuff. I can imagine the lawsuits Air France will be receiving in the coming months.

I think it's too bad people feel compelled to file suits in cases like this. Flying, like so much in life, is a calculated risk which each person who enters a plane takes upon themselves. Pilots and crew can be excellent, plane in tip-top condition, and still accidents will happen. Suits stemming from a situation like this (provided the cause is determined to have been the weather, which I think is likely) are frivolous, almost as bad as "I want money because I burned my lip on hot coffee" type cases.

I don't have an airline ticket available but isn't there a lot of conditions on flights which govern compensation by international agreement - Warsaw Convention? There certainly is with regards to lost luggage, and it is not high. The quote below is applicable for injury and death.

Quote:

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for death of or personal injury to passengers is limited in most cases to proven damages not to exceed US $75,000 per passenger, and that this liability up to such limit shall not depend on negligence on the part of the carrier. The limit of liability of US $75,000 above is inclusive of legal fees and costs except that in case of a claim brought in a state where provision is made for separate award of legal fees and costs, the limit shall be the sum of US $58,000 exclusive of legal fees and costs. For such passengers traveling by a carrier not a party to such special contracts or on a journey not to, from, or having an agreed stopping place in the United States of America, liability of the carrier for death or personal injury to passengers is limited in most cases to approximately US $10,000 or US$20,000.

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That is for death, I don't expect much will be paid for 'minor injuries'.

Passengers are advised to take out travel insurance, this will give them more cover.