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#277202 - Thu Sep 08 2005 03:53 PM Re: New Orleans
robboy Offline
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Registered: Fri May 20 2005
Posts: 117
Loc: The Peach State, USA
I'd like to see constructive thoughts presented to cover a subject like this, eventually, but I'm really in favor of the emphasis remaining on rescuing survivors and recovering the dead. At this point, I can't imagine that 'polluting' the ocean with the chemicals resulting from decaying bodies is a real big worry to the families who know they've lost loved ones.
The media will pick up on this sort of thread soon enough, and I expect that sort of crass indiference from them. What I'd really like not to see is a further slap at this sadness with erroneous assertions that global warming is a scientific fact and is somehow accelerated by the frantic rescue operations in progress.
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#277203 - Thu Sep 08 2005 10:26 PM Re: New Orleans
lothruin Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Wed Nov 12 2003
Posts: 2165
Loc: Nebraska USA
Yes, the empahsis should still be on rescue and recovery efforts. (Though I'd like to point out that I'm not limiting that to humans, because aside from compassion, love and respect for life, the companion animals involved in this crisis have influence on a number of real problems facing New Orleans at the moment, not the least of which is that human decay is not the only decay that will cause serious problems, and the less decay the better. Apologies for bluntness.)

However, media indifference or no, discussing the impact this will have on anyone other than those directly involved is not out of the realm of reasonable. The impact of a disaster of this nature on the ecosystem of the area MUST be thoroughly evaluated, and preferably before it is completely a matter of hindsight, especially if any resettlement efforts are to take place even in the not-so-near future. I think the toxins of decay will not effect the gulf. Decay is natural and a PART of that ecosystem, and salt goes a long way. But such a large quantity of water polluted in other ways WILL have an impact, and that impact should probably be evaluated sooner than later, if for no other reason (and there are plenty) than for the protection of the humans still living in that area.


Edited by Lothruin (Thu Sep 08 2005 10:26 PM)
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#277204 - Fri Sep 09 2005 07:14 AM Re: New Orleans
robboy Offline
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Registered: Fri May 20 2005
Posts: 117
Loc: The Peach State, USA
I’m right there with you, Lothruin, and my opening sentence addresses the same concern. My overall pitch is centered more toward immediate family health concerns and misinformation on future pollution effects. I know this wood butcher doesn’t have the ken or the experience to solve it all, but I do know how to find answers when I want or need them, and I won’t be seeking the wisdom of the Chicken Littles in their religious, political and scientific pulpits, spreading doom and gloom in their respective bents.

What I haven’t seen and would think to be beneficial is cautionary commentary on the profiteers from a disaster such as this, referring primarily to phony charities and price gouging purveyors of necessities. Gasoline prices went through the roof, nation-wide, a mere day after the hurricane hit, and there seems to be more than the usual number of relief collection scams. I found the following sites helpful to me as starting points for exploration on all these thoughts.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9160668/
http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=18473
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effect_of_Hurricane_Katrina_on_New_Orleans
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#277205 - Fri Sep 09 2005 08:21 AM Re: New Orleans
lothruin Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Wed Nov 12 2003
Posts: 2165
Loc: Nebraska USA
Yes, the gouging at the pumps is an interesting phenomenon, in my opinion. The prices in my state are not the highest in the nation, but outside of the gulf and east coast states, the INCREASE in my state was among few over 50 cents per gallon, and comparing the increase to overall price, the rate of increase in my state was one of the highest in the nation, and for no clear reason. This state wasn't one severely effected by the disaster, either directly or indirectly, so the price increase is a bit interesting. And I'm sure that things like that are happening all over, not just with petroleum products.
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Goodbye Ruth & Betty, my beautiful grandmothers.
Betty Kuzara 1921 - April 5, 2008
Ruth Kellison 1925 - Dec 27, 2007

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#277206 - Fri Sep 09 2005 09:51 AM Re: New Orleans
sue943 Offline
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Registered: Sun Dec 19 1999
Posts: 38004
Loc: Jersey
Channel Islands    
Prices of petrol and oil have increased here too as a result of the hurricane, the US are not alone in this.
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#277207 - Fri Sep 09 2005 10:52 AM Re: New Orleans
picqero Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Tue Dec 28 2004
Posts: 2813
Loc: Hertfordshire<br>England UK
Quote:

I'd like to see constructive thoughts presented to cover a subject like this, eventually, but I'm really in favor of the emphasis remaining on rescuing survivors and recovering the dead. At this point, I can't imagine that 'polluting' the ocean with the chemicals resulting from decaying bodies is a real big worry to the families who know they've lost loved ones.
The media will pick up on this sort of thread soon enough, and I expect that sort of crass indiference from them. What I'd really like not to see is a further slap at this sadness with erroneous assertions that global warming is a scientific fact and is somehow accelerated by the frantic rescue operations in progress.



Being concerned about the environmental effects of the petro-chemical and bacterial pollution of this disaster does not in any way indicate lack of sympathy with those who've suffered death, injury, bereavement and loss of their homes, jobs and communities. I am as appalled by this tragedy as anyone, and just as angry at the slow response to the suffering of victims. My heart goes out to these suffering people, most of whom show courage, fortitude, and grace in the face of devastation, and I strongly object to your accusation of 'crass indifference'. I am not though, prepared to give details of what I am personally doing or giving to relief agencies - that is my business.
Some reports put the chemical and bacterial pollution levels in the New Orleans basin at over 45,000 the safe norm, and this is cause for concern. The bodies of dead victims have been visible all week, both on dry land and in the floodwater, with little apparent attempt to recover them. This in itself must add enormously to the suffering of survivors.
I do agree with you that any ocean pollution created by dead bodies is irrelevant. The pollution created by the devastation to oil and chemical installations is a different matter, and one which could cause serious long term damage to coastal communities.
Global warming may or may not have contributed to this disaster, but much scientific opinion is that higher atmospheric and ocean temperatures result in increased storm and hurricane strengths. If these opinions are wrong, nothing is lost by acting on them, but if they are right, the potential effect of ignoring them is frightening.


Edited by aramis (Fri Sep 09 2005 11:41 AM)

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#277208 - Fri Sep 09 2005 12:33 PM Re: New Orleans
Copago Offline
Moderator

Registered: Tue May 15 2001
Posts: 14384
Loc: Australia
Anyone one know what Lake Ponchatrain used for? Is it a resevoir for city water, recreation or what?

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#277209 - Fri Sep 09 2005 12:48 PM Re: New Orleans
robboy Offline
Forum Adept

Registered: Fri May 20 2005
Posts: 117
Loc: The Peach State, USA
What you chose to take exception to is patently directed at media's typical treatment of the subject of your thread: Throw in an enviornmental concern such as the ever-ready and nebulous global warming one to stir the pot. Pretty plain to me, but my sincere apologies if you genuinely believe I know you well enough to label you crass.

Quote:

Whether or not you believe that global warming is influenced by human activity, it is nonetheless a scientific fact,...




However, I can see where someone would want to do a little backtracking and 'misinterpret' what was said in response to this 'scientific fact' assertion. Admitting a fib seems to me a smoother path than affecting indignance, but a few of my comments also do deal with the rigid advocates of whatever agenda that owns them.
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#277210 - Fri Sep 09 2005 12:56 PM Re: New Orleans
robboy Offline
Forum Adept

Registered: Fri May 20 2005
Posts: 117
Loc: The Peach State, USA
Copago, if you will open the wiki link listed on my previous comment page, you'll get all the info you need about New Orleans and Lake Pontchartrain's role. It's essentially an estuary, but is also a major player in the area's recreation and livlihood.
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#277211 - Sun Sep 11 2005 08:58 AM Re: New Orleans
agony Online   content

Administrator

Registered: Sat Mar 29 2003
Posts: 16595
Loc: Western Canada
Somebody sent me this - take a look at the date of the article.
http://www3.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0410/feature5/

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#277212 - Sun Sep 11 2005 09:27 AM Re: New Orleans
ClaraSue Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Sun May 18 2003
Posts: 7842
Loc: Arizona USA
Agony, that's what's so surprising about the response to Katrina. New Orleans, Louisiana, State Emergency Management, FEMA etc, has always known of this potential disaster and yet look what happened. "It's not a matter of IF, but a matter of WHEN" has always been what is taught in
Emergency Management. Why there was such a breakdown of response and communication after Katrina is a mystery to me. I remember discussing this possibility over 10 years ago at a conference held in New Orleans. Very good article, by the way. Thanks for sharing.
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#277213 - Sun Sep 11 2005 03:58 PM Re: New Orleans
robboy Offline
Forum Adept

Registered: Fri May 20 2005
Posts: 117
Loc: The Peach State, USA
It is a good article, and it further impresses me with the magnitude and the range of responsibility and implicit at government and individual levels.

Look at the scenario played out in the predictive article, apply that to any specific situation anywhere in the world, and you have a whole library full of what-ifs that make sensible, and lengthy, reading. Now apply the assignment of how to address each and every one of those scenarios with the best response, factoring in how to keep that response on tap for best efficiency and effectiveness. What this produces is a plan of formidable proportions that will never be perfect for everyone, all the time, because everything is predicated on that 'best' appellation.

My common sense conclusion is that I better take on some of the initiative for getting me and mine through a disaster, rather than wait on big brother to do it all for me. He may be too busy saving someone else's butt.
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#277214 - Sun Sep 11 2005 05:06 PM Re: New Orleans
lothruin Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Wed Nov 12 2003
Posts: 2165
Loc: Nebraska USA
Robboy, that is what every one of us should always have been doing.

After this storm a number of people I knew, here in Tornado Alley, Nebraska, asked why people were so surprised that this happened, all things considered. My response: It isn't surprise. It's disbelief. That's one of the stages of mourning. I described it to them as, imagine if downtown Lincoln were destroyed by a tornado. Lincolnites would be in a state of disbelief, not because they thought it couldn't happen, but because it always could have happened and never had.

We live in a precarious position here. Communities mere minutes in any direction from the city limits have been destroyed by tornados and rebuilt, then destroyed again over the last hundred or more years. Buildings on the edges of the city have been destroyed completely by "micro bursts" and "strong gusts" that were never quite tornados. But for some reason a tornado has not struck in the heart of Lincoln for a very long time. We get tornado warnings when one comes close, or when conditions are ripe, but we haven't had one in the city limits. There are lots of theories about why that is, going from the simple and blatantly incorrect idea that Lincoln is in a valley, and therefore protected from tornados, to the spiritual protection of Native American earth knowledge. But the plain fact is, Lincoln is not protected from tornados. It's just been lucky.

And that is why every student of Lincoln Public Schools is taught what to do if a tornado warning happens, both during school and not. It is practically drilled into our heads (like fire drills) from the moment we enter the school system, and students are encouraged to help their families make a plan for home as well. I don't even remember when I learned about inside rooms or basement closets, though I know I was 5 the first time I had to use one during a storm, the first time I actually saw a tornado with my own eyes. It becomes almost instinctive to us.

When the sirens go off, first you go out on your front porch, look at the sky, wave at all the neighbors... (Well, its true, we're a little jaded...) But you know what to do if the weather is actually threatening. You keep the TV on, you watch where the rotation is in relation to you. You know the best place for you and your family to be if it turns toward your home, and you know how long it will take to get you, your family, your pets and any very important belongings (documents, mostly, and they're stored where they're east to grab all at once and stuff in a bag for easy carrying) to safety.

You don't evacuate during a tornado. There's nowhere to run. You just have to ride it out and hope for the best. It's up to you to keep you and yours as safe as possible. You can't depend on anyone else. Afterwards, if you're all right, you call everyone you know to be sure they are, and whether they need help. If your house isn't, you find a place to be safe and THEN you ask for help rebuilding. And if you didn't make it, well, it's your own darn fault.
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Goodbye Ruth & Betty, my beautiful grandmothers.
Betty Kuzara 1921 - April 5, 2008
Ruth Kellison 1925 - Dec 27, 2007

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