#285965 - Sun Nov 20 2005 07:32 PM
Re: The Muslims Are Coming!
|
Administrator
Registered: Sun Dec 19 1999
Posts: 38005
Loc: Jersey Channel Islands
|
Knowing nothing I would tend to ask them about their dietary requirements before they come, ask if there are any foods they would and wouldn't want.
_________________________
Many a child has been spoiled because you can't spank a Grandma!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#285968 - Sun Nov 20 2005 08:20 PM
Re: The Muslims Are Coming!
|
Enthusiast
Registered: Mon Nov 11 2002
Posts: 271
Loc: Tasmania Australia
|
Quote:
Don't eat with your left hand or shake hands with them with that hand it offends them (I don't know why)
In many places the left hand is only used for...uhm... personal hygiene.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#285969 - Sun Nov 20 2005 08:41 PM
Re: The Muslims Are Coming!
|
Forum Champion
Registered: Mon Apr 22 2002
Posts: 5007
Loc: Western Australia
|
Some other things which are considered rude include the following:
1. Pointing with the fingers (if you must point, use your thumb).
2. When sitting and chatting with your visitors, don't sit in such a way as to expose the soles of your feet to them. Keep your feet on the ground. (Not sure if this one is universal but it did apply to one Muslim country I visited).
Also, most practising Muslims don't drink alcohol.
That's all I can think of for now. I'll post again if I remember any more.
_________________________
Don't say "I can't" ... say " I haven't learned how, yet." (Reg Bolton)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#285970 - Sun Nov 20 2005 10:10 PM
Re: The Muslims Are Coming!
|
Multiloquent
Registered: Tue Dec 28 2004
Posts: 2813
Loc: Hertfordshire<br>England UK
|
I lived for several years in a Muslim country, and often ate out or had Muslim friends round. IMHO if they are guests in your house, they should fit in with you rather than you with them.
The 'soles of your feet' insult, mentioned by Mothergoose is a real insult, and should be avoided. Though not a Muslim, I get uncomfortable with this and have to move if it happens to me. I've never come across the 'pointing finger' insult, and wouldn't hesitate to do it, though not at them. Nor would I worry about drinking alcohol in moderation, such as a glass or two of wine with you meal in front of them. Don't offer it to them of course, and if you feel uncomfortable drinking it, then avoid it.. Alcohol is readilly available in many Muslim countries, and practicing Muslims don't drink it, but usually aren't greatly offended by non-Muslims doing so.
Avoid pork and other 'unclean' foods such as shellfish, but I've not come across the 'praying for chicken and need to cook it themselves' practice. In Muslim countries all animals and birds would be killed 'halal', ie permissable style, but the many Muslims I've met in the UK haven't worried about eating non halal meat in restaurants, etc.
The 'don't eat with your left hand' practice is quite common, but doesn't mean that you can't eat with a fork in your left hand, or break a breadroll in half using both hands. It applies to the handling of food from a common bowl or dish, and is really meant for situations where all the food is served in a central container and eaten barehanded rather than with utensils.
As to conversation, it's up to you, but I'd be quite interested in getting their opinion on important events such as Iraq, terrorism, etc, but as you would with any guest try to avoid arguments. I certainly wouldn't avoid watching the news on TV, nor of commenting on it or asking their opinion.
Take the opportunity to learn some of the common Muslim greetings such as 'salam aleekum' (peace be upon you), to which the response is 'allekum salam'. Also if you're interested, ask about their faith, though not in an argumentative manner - Christians, Muslims and Jews are all 'People of the Book', and share many aspects and characters of their religions.
In short 'treat them like normal people'!
Edited by aramis (Sun Nov 20 2005 10:18 PM)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#285971 - Mon Nov 21 2005 01:27 AM
Re: The Muslims Are Coming!
|
Forum Champion
Registered: Mon Apr 22 2002
Posts: 5007
Loc: Western Australia
|
When I posted before, I was at work. Now I am home and I have consulted the information book we were given when we visited a muslim country.
In addition to the things mentioned above, it is not customary to shake hands with the opposite sex. The restriction on using the left hand also applies to passing gifts to people as well as handling food. Do not handle their Koran.
According to our guide book, the following things are forbidden to Muslims: casual touching, touching a dog on its wet nose or when you or the animal is wet, smacking the fist of your right hand into your left palm (apparently this is a particularly offensive gesture).
_________________________
Don't say "I can't" ... say " I haven't learned how, yet." (Reg Bolton)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#285973 - Mon Nov 21 2005 06:02 AM
Re: The Muslims Are Coming!
|
Prolific
Registered: Wed Mar 30 2005
Posts: 1636
Loc: Canberra ACT Australia
|
Quote:
Oh and while we are at it Roos, don't wander around the house naked!
Especially not while pointing! 
Not shaking hands with the opposite sex isn't international. At least the Indonesian Muslims I know don't have a problem with it. Where I have been caught out, though, is when a woman shakes my hand and then pulls me in as if she is going to kiss my cheek: don't kiss her cheek! It's more a sort of pressing together, but I'm pretty sure this is only between women.
And, as has been pointed out, Muslims are people too...if they are your wife's friends, Roos, I would take your lead from her.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#285975 - Mon Nov 21 2005 09:41 AM
Re: The Muslims Are Coming!
|
Forum Champion
Registered: Tue Jan 18 2005
Posts: 8717
Loc: Arkansas USA
|
I hope things go smoothly for everybody during the visit, Roos. And if they are reasonable people, they will make a few allowances for your family's mistakes. It will be obvious how hard you are trying to make them feel at ease...this will compensate for an awful lot!
_________________________
A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is just putting on its shoes - Mark Twain
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#285976 - Mon Nov 21 2005 09:57 AM
Re: The Muslims Are Coming!
|
Multiloquent
Registered: Wed Nov 12 2003
Posts: 2165
Loc: Nebraska USA
|
I'd give you advice, Roos, but the Muslims I know are mostly very easy-going and not particularly strict. I'm sure there are dietary restrictions they follow, but they've never made an issue out of it. (And they're not shy about alcohol.) And fortunately for me, they're about as crude as I am sometimes, so there's never been worry of saying or doing something offensive in front of them. But that's mostly the girls from Bosnia. The Arab Muslims I know are mostly very quiet men who would rather have us over for a meal they prepare than go out carousing. Once again, I'm sure there are dietary restrictions, but since they are making the meals there hasn't ever been a problem. I think that perhaps most of my Muslim friends are doing as the Romans do. They just don't make an issue of their religion as far as fitting into daily life.
_________________________
Goodbye Ruth & Betty, my beautiful grandmothers. Betty Kuzara 1921 - April 5, 2008 Ruth Kellison 1925 - Dec 27, 2007
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#285977 - Mon Nov 21 2005 02:51 PM
Re: The Muslims Are Coming!
|
Prolific
Registered: Tue May 17 2005
Posts: 1138
Loc: Hull Yorkshire England UK
|
All meat has to be Halal, so it's best if you can get some that you know is. But I suppose it's probably different if the Muslims are from a European country. The only Muslims I know are from Pakistan and Syria (all of whom are very strict), and Bangladesh (who are not strict at all, seriously. They act like they have no religion.)
Edited to add that if they're female, make all attempts at bodily contact, well, unmade. It's not something that's done with most. And it's always better if you don't start a question with "So, you Muslims..."
Edited by Flynn (Mon Nov 21 2005 02:53 PM)
_________________________
Oh, a functional love life is like icing a cake - you've got to concentrate!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#285979 - Mon Nov 21 2005 07:03 PM
Re: The Muslims Are Coming!
|
Multiloquent
Registered: Mon Feb 10 2003
Posts: 2167
Loc: Sydney NSW Australia
|
Thanks to all that have posted helpful hints. Most of it seems to be commonsense, but I`ll try anyway. Walking around naked? Lol my sense of modesty would probably be equal to a nuns. 
_________________________
Responds to stimuli, tries to communicate verbally, follows limited commands, laughs or cries in interaction with loved ones.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#285980 - Wed Nov 23 2005 04:29 AM
Re: The Muslims Are Coming!
|
Prolific
Registered: Sun May 21 2000
Posts: 1778
Loc: Body: PA USA Heart: Paris
|
I agree with whoever said that these women are coming to you for a visit; part of the enjoyment of their trip should be their enjoyment of your culture.
Out of courtesy and respect, I would adhere to their major dietary requirement like no pork. I would make no ther concessions; if you have wine with dinner, then continue. They don't have to drink it.
I'd not take contortionist lessons so that the sole of my feet are not visible. True, this is not the most pleasant body part to have on view. Just don't complimnt them on their lovely alligator sandles--chancs are they're barefoot.
I don't know where their left hands have been or what they've been doing, but this should become Priority #1 during their visit. Personally I'd have the family's left arms put in slings to eliminate the chance of left hand contageon.
If they are not willing to enjoy aspects of your culture, they should stay at home.
_________________________
I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did. Yogi Berra
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#285981 - Wed Nov 23 2005 08:30 AM
Re: The Muslims Are Coming!
|
Prolific
Registered: Wed Mar 30 2005
Posts: 1636
Loc: Canberra ACT Australia
|
I don't think there's been any question of "these women" (has gender actually been specified?) not being willing to make concessions for the culture they are visiting. While I applaud Roos for wanting to make sure he doesn't cause offense (and maybe actually learning something about another culture in the process  ) I must say I've found this whole thread a little odd. Is it just because Muslims represent such an 'unknown' that all this advice is being offered, or would the same discussion be happening if the visitors were Jewish, or Mormon, or Lutheran, or Buddhist? Yes I've put in my own 2 cents worth, but what has really struck me is all the generalisations which have been offered, also the assumptions that Muslims ( all Muslims) are similarly devout, and unworldly enough to not be able to discern an unwitting infringement from a deliberate insult. I'm not trying to start another 'us vs them' thread, and I'm not suggesting there has been evidence of posters being in any way derogatory or prejudiced. I'm just sharing the observations I have made and saying that I find it genuinely interesting the way we have all reacted to this question. Perhaps it shows my own heathen underbelly, but I can't say I'd be particularly worried about offending Muslims, but I can't say I'd be particularly worried about offending anybody on the basis of religious beliefs, theirs or mine. Again, I don't usually set out to cause offence to anyone on any basis, but I also don't tend to pussyfoot around...
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#285982 - Wed Nov 23 2005 08:20 PM
Re: The Muslims Are Coming!
|
Forum Champion
Registered: Mon Apr 22 2002
Posts: 5007
Loc: Western Australia
|
Yes, gender was specified in the first post.
Yes, I think Muslims are a bit of an "unknown" in Australia. It has only been in relatively recent years that we have had a significant rise in Muslim immigration and Muslim countries have not been a traditional holiday destination for Australians.
Asking about customs so as not to offend shows thoughtfulness on the part of the host. If my guests were coming from a culture I was not familiar with, e.g. Buddhism or Taoism, I'd be asking questions. The same goes for guests who might be vegans (I'd be checking for what they did and did not eat).
It doesn't necessarily mean I would totally change my habits or lifestyle, but I would make the effort to not do anything to cause offence or make them feel uncomfortable.
There are things that offend all of us and it is hard not to feel affronted when somebody commits an offence, even if we know it is unintentional, or if we know if it is not viewed as such by everybody. I am very offended when people spit in the streets even though I know that this is acceptable in other countries. As a visitor, I would greatly appreciate it if I knew my host was refraining from doing this in deference to my feelings.
I don't think anyone has assumed all Muslims are devout. In fact, in my post, I did specify 'practising' Muslims. However, you don't have to be devout for things to offend you. For years I was a non-practising Christian but it still really offended me when people blasphemed. I didn't mind them swearing. "S--t" didn't bother me. But preface that with "Holy" and it did. I have one friend who says that all the time but even though I have never told him that it offends me, someone else must have, because I have noticed he tries very hard not to do it in my presence - and I really appreciate the fact that he makes the effort. Even if your visitors are not practising Muslims, I am sure that feeding them ham would make probably make them less than comfortable.
Roos, I am sure your visitors will appreciate all your efforts. You are obviously a very thoughtful host.
_________________________
Don't say "I can't" ... say " I haven't learned how, yet." (Reg Bolton)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#285983 - Wed Nov 23 2005 11:17 PM
Re: The Muslims Are Coming!
|
Prolific
Registered: Wed Mar 30 2005
Posts: 1636
Loc: Canberra ACT Australia
|
Quote:
Yes, gender was specified in the first post.
So it was, my mistake. 
Like I said, MotherG, I wasn't having a go at anyone, more just thinking out loud. And I stress yet again that I applaud Roos for wanting to make his guests feel comfortable. I certainly don't advocate completely changing your routine for guests, and I equally wouldn't suggest you don't take account of those differences you know about.
But I guess my thinking has moved beyond Roos' specific situation to the more general. It just always seems such a shame to me that human nature leads us to see differences in others before we see similarities. I'm not excluding myself from this in any way. However, if it is indeed human nature to notice difference, it is up to the individual how where they go with their observations.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#285984 - Sat Nov 26 2005 06:21 PM
Re: The Muslims Are Coming!
|
Multiloquent
Registered: Mon Feb 10 2003
Posts: 2167
Loc: Sydney NSW Australia
|
Thanks Mothergoose, as guests they should be shown every consideration I feel. Just as an aside and of some small interest as Vendrome stated Quote:
If they are not willing to enjoy aspects of your culture, they should stay at home.
. We were invited to visit our guests house and stay for a few days before we had Natasha, unfortunetly the lady of the house told us that because of her husbands beliefs we would have to lie to him and tell him we were married [as we are now], I simply refused that request and stayed at home.
_________________________
Responds to stimuli, tries to communicate verbally, follows limited commands, laughs or cries in interaction with loved ones.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#285985 - Sat Nov 26 2005 10:44 PM
Re: The Muslims Are Coming!
|
Multiloquent
Registered: Wed Nov 12 2003
Posts: 2165
Loc: Nebraska USA
|
Gee, wish I could have done the same, Roos, the last time someone told me that. Unfortunately, when it's your future mother-in-law, or at least when it's MY future mother-in-law, I didn't want to press the point to harshly. When I was pregnant with Katherine we went to visit my husband's mother and step-father for a week. I really like his parents but they are devout evangelical Christians and even though my husband and I had been together for two years and fully intended to be married, and even though I was already pregnant with their grandchild, since we weren't married, we weren't allowed to share a bed under their roof. It was torturous. I was only about three months along, and had enough trouble sleeping as it was, without having to deal with doing it alone. Oh the hormones. Seriously. I know I seem like a hard, uh, rear, head, whatever, sometimes, but I'm really a bit softy at heart, and I just didn't want to make rifts, so I acquiesced. It was not fun.
_________________________
Goodbye Ruth & Betty, my beautiful grandmothers. Betty Kuzara 1921 - April 5, 2008 Ruth Kellison 1925 - Dec 27, 2007
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|