When I'm out in public and meet people I don't know, I always say "Happy Holidays", as there are so many people of different faiths out there. I learned this lesson when I was a cashier at Channel Home Center and I wished someone a "Merry Christmas", the person got all offended and said "I'm Jewish and I don't appreciate you wishing me a Merry Christmas!".

What people keep forgetting is that the stores aren't going by what faith their owners are, the stores are going by what's profitable to them. I mean let's face it, Christmas is THE busiest shopping season every year. Retailers aren't going to commit retail suicide, as they would be doing if they decided to go all Kwanza, Ramadan, Wiccan, Athiest or Jewish. Doing so would be committing retail suicide.

I listened to the local commercial radio station in the car earlier today and the majority of advertisers were wishing us a happy/merry Christmas with just one opting for 'seasons greetings' which is an alternative used in the UK but normally only in written form.

I send a Jewish friend a Christmas card but not one with a religious theme, she sends me one too.

Lest we forget, the winter solstice is the actual reason for the season. Seriously.
It's a well established and widely held belief among most historians that in Western Europe, Christianity appropriated native religions' celebrations of the solstice in order to ease the conversion process. Chanukah, the festival of lights and dedication, was not even that important of a holiday in the Jewish tradition until recently; at the risk of cynical speculation, I would say that the recent emphasis on Chanukah has been an attempt by retailers to tap into a very powerful demographic. Ramadan has nothing to do with Christ's birth or the solstice and like Chanukah, is celebrated at different times each year due to the fact that Muslims use a lunar calender. Kwanzaa was created to level the racial playing field.
Also, to enlighten those who didn't realize it, the reason "X" is used to abbreviate the word "Christmas" is because "X" is the graphic symbol for the Greek letter Chi, which is the first sound of the word Christ. The "X" is not an attempt to "de-Christ" Christmas--it is actually an old symbol for Christ. "Chi" and "Rho" are the first two letters in Christ(which means "annointed")and are often superimposed on one another in a familiar graphic representation of the word, often seen on priest's or preacher's robes and church ornamentation.

I think people are so passionate about this time of year because for many people it is a nostalgic time, with memories of friends and family and smiles gone by. And is that not really the best thing to celebrate during the shortest, and often coldest, days of the year?

Hopefully something in this post can take a little of the edge out of someone wishing a Christian a "Happy Holiday." If it's heartfelt, what does it matter anyway?
On that note, I would like to say happy winter solstice to everyone in the Funtrivia community. I hope you and your families and loved ones are safe and able to spend time with one another reliving and making good memories. However you celebrate, celebrate.

(gets off soapbox)

Edited to restore original topic title.

What I would really like to see for the holiday season is for someone to be able to say "Merry Christmas" to a stranger in the street, get the response "Happy Hannukah" (or any other religious or secular seasonal greeting) and both parties to be able to walk away from the exchange knowing that the other had wished them a heartfelt greeting regardless of the words they used to express it.

Why is everybody haranguing on the words and decorations that others use to express their joy in the season? I'm telling you, "Joy to the World" used to be taken as a given. This year, I'm suggesting we go with "Express Post Joy to the World, 'Cause the People In It Ain't Feeling Any".

Personally, I can't wait for the season to be over, so I can go back to actually liking mankind again. There's just something about this time of year that brings out the worst in a lot of vocal people... the ones presumably trying to "save" the holidays.

The hotel I work in is run by a family of devout Portuguese Catholics. Christmas carols are pumped through the lobby 24/7 and there are decorations everywhere, including two large "Holiday Trees". Thankfully, employees are not bound to porting Christmas wear, and we may use any seasonal greeting we like or none at all. I just wish we could change the music station when my coworker and I are there 11pm - 7am. It's probably not as bad during the day when the place is crowded, but if I have to hear that Hanson Christmas Medley (it's probably not Hanson, but it sounds enough like them) one more time ringing through the deserted building, I swear, I am going to flip out.

Yay! My 2600th post! And all I'm doing is adding that I looked on the Internet, and that song is Hanson! It's their "Silent Night Medley".

Lets just be thankful that there aren't a slew of mediocre (at best) songs shoved down our throats during every holiday deemed worthy of celebration by the world's major religions.
The song that has gotten on my nerves the most this year, as I've heard it more this year than in others, is "Santa Baby."
How gross is a foxy sounding female vocalist wanting to play lovey dovey with Santa? Its just not right, people, it's just not right.

That's the other one, along with the Hason medley, that makes me want to flip out. You're not alone!

I enjoyed your post Marley ........until I read this very un P.C. comment.

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And is that not really the best thing to celebrate during the shortest, and often coldest, days of the year?

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Lol. Like I wish it was a little bit cooler here but it`s often the hottest day of the year in Australia and other parts of the world.

Australian Christmas site.

Sorry Roos,

Mea culpa.
You were right, I was calling for everyone to approach things with an open mind, and I can't even think "outside the hemisphere."

I was definitely thinking like a real equator snob there; I should have more squarely located my statement in the context of the Northern Hemisphere, specifically Western Europe where the American and Australian Christmas traditions originate from. I hope you got the point I was trying to make, though.

Out of curiosity, do the native (Aboriginal?) people in Australia have a solstice celebration of note? Any sort of mid summer nights ritual? I didn't delve into the link you provided too deeply for this because it seemed to be a Christmas only site.

The P.C. aspect of Christmas which really irritates me is those individuals and groups wishing to ban any aspect of the celebration, claiming it might offend other religious groups, mainly Muslims. Usually those making this claim have little or no religious belief, but set themselves as self appointed experts on what may or may not offend others. Go to almost Muslim country and you will find Christmas decorations in hotels, Christmas cards on sale, and Muslims wishing Christians a Happy Christmas.
Instead of seeking and exploiting division and argument where none exists, the P.C. 'experts' should all shut up and let the Muslim and other religious communities represent and speak for themselves.

No worries at all Marley I am really enjoying the quality of the posts here, I did understand the point you were making.

I don`t have any knowledge about Australian Aboriginal solstice type rituals or celebrations but do know that much of their belief system revolves around the Dreamtime . Their Dreamtime beliefs are tied much more into the land than the current religions are and I guess they are closer to pagan beliefs in that regard.
Here is a photo I took whilst down in the Grampian mountains in Victoria, it`s a picture of what the Aboriginal artist thought "God" might look like and was done some many years ago, the smaller figures are "Gods" helpers.

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From what I can see, I don't think Christians have a problem with sharing the holiday season with other religions. It seems to me that the problem is the active suppression of Christian elements whilst promoting other elements.

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That's the issue in its entirety. There is a big battle in the U.S. over the "separation of church and state" and it has spilled over into the holidays. The original article was a little deceptive. Christians weren't boycotting stores because the stores refused to say "Merry Christmas". They were boycotting because the stores forbid their employees from saying the words "Merry Christmas" and from making any overt references to Christmas. One store sold holiday trees rather than Christmas trees. That's a big distinction.

As a Christian, I could care less if someone says to me "Happy Holidays" rather than "Merry Christmas". I take both in the same kind spirit. I don't care if my kid's school has a totally secular Christmas production, as they did. I enjoyed it immensely. What I object to are certain groups (ACLU, etc) forbidding my kids from singing "Silent Night" in a Christmas play. Stores under duress of lawsuit forbidding its employees from uttering the words "Merry Christmas". And as was mentioned in the original article, schools forbidding parents from bringing party supplies that are green or red (too symbolic of a "christian" holiday therefore offensive). Parents weren't even allowed to put green or red icing on the Christmas cupcakes. Some schoools have even taken the phrase "Parson Brown" out of the song "Frosty The Snowman" and replaced it with "circus clown" because "parson" is too religious.

Ridiculous, NO?

Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, and Happy Holidays!

Merry Christmas to those of you celebrating that tonight! Though you probably won't read this until later, since you're probably quite busy at your celebrating, or at least I would hope. I, myself, had a lovely evening of gift-giving around our holiday tree. I hope everyone else celebrating tonight had as much fun as I did.

Diehard, what you described is pretty darn ridiculous. I'm glad that sort of weirdness hasn't spread here yet. I am perfectly OK (of course) with schools keeping things secular as far as their programs and lesson planning are concerned, but feel it is a disservice to education for them to take control of things like that. How on earth can you claim to be teaching tolerance and understanding if you do not allow the subject to come up at all? Understanding the backgrounds of your fellow students and experiencing parts of it with them can only serve to further the goal of understanding between people of differing backgrounds, and supressing that dialogue can only hinder it. I realize we're talking about chidren here, but that makes it all the worse. If kids experience thier friends different beliefs at a young age, they are much more likely to accept those differences, being basically innocent (one can hope) of prejudices. If they aren't allowed to express part of themselves until later, after prejudices are allowed to grow, then we have serious problems on our hands.

But I will say this: "Circus clown" is actually a legitimate inclusion in Winter Wonderland, as the second iteration of that stanza. Too bad they felt they had to change it the first time around, but if they sing a short version (only sing it once through, instead of twice) they may just have opted for the second wording instead of the first. It really is part of the song, though. I don't recall Parson Brown being in Frosty the Snowman.

You know, trying to take Christ out of Christmas is like having a birthday party and banning the guest of honour.

It’s funny how the US claims to have a separation between church and state, and yet makes Christmas, a Christian holiday, a federal holiday as well. This whole issue between those who think there is an attack on Christmas and those who think there should be an attack on Christmas seems strangely reminisint of a South Park episode.

I find the whole issue somewhat ludicrous for both sides, but I do understand why people want to take the Christ out of Christmas. The word 'Christ' means something like 'the anointed one' or 'our lord', and wishing a Jew a merry Christmas can be seen as offensive because we do not accept Christ as the Messiah, and it seems like an unintentional slap in the face to say such a thing to a Jew. Need one forget how many horrible things were done to Jews over the centuries by Christians who perceived them as Christ-killers and non-believers. In fact, Christmas was one of the worst nights for many Jewish communities in Eastern Europe.

The truth of the matter is though that people in America should grow thicker skin. There are so many worst things to get angry about, why bother if someone just wishes you a Merry Christmas.

Lothruin, you are correct. I had the wrong song. It was Winter Wonderland: "In the meadow you can build a snowman and pretend that he's a circus clown (rather than Parson Brown)."

eytank, you make some good points. Unfortunately, the situation is not about thin skin, it is about politics. There's a struggle for the political power to determine what is and isn't accepted in our culture. Christmas is as much a secular holiday as it is a religious one. You probably won't see a navitiy scene in Manhattan's Lower East Side (large Jewish community) but you might be likely to see on in a small Southern town of 200 people where half go to the First Baptist Church and the other half go to the United Methodist Church. Each community should be able to celebrate Christmas, Hannakuh, or any other holiday in a way that reflects the values of the community and each individual in the community should celebrate as they see fit on a personal level. It is equally wrong to deny communities and individuals the freedom to celebrate as they see fit as it would be to force someone to celebrate in a manner that they do not wish to.

There is no seperation of church and state in the U.S. constitution. That is a lie put forth by the liberals in the U.S. and the anti God crowd.

The U.S. constitution only prohibits the formation or support of a government sponsored church. All this other nonsense is a smoke screen for the real mission which is to de-christainize the U.S.

There is no seperation of church and state. Never was.

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The U.S. constitution only prohibits the formation or support of a government sponsored church. All this other nonsense is a smoke screen for the real mission which is to de-christainize the U.S.

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These two statements are contradictory. If the Constitution "only prohibits the formation or support of a government sponsored church", there is no need to "de-christainize the U.S." because there would be no state supported religion, meaning Christianity would not be in jeopardy.

Meaning, there always has been separation of church and state and always will be, in your own words.

Not to go too far into Constitutional case law, but I'd hardly call Thomas Jefferson or James Madison "anti-god" or liberal. The phrase separation of church and state was actually coined by Jefferson, so it's much older than some people would have us believe.

There is not mention of such separation in the US Constitution, that much is true. But, case law dating as far back as Jefferson has upheld the belief that religion and state do not mix. Here is one site on the Jefferson letter http://www.usconstitution.net/jeffwall.html

Here is another on the separation issue on the whole: http://www.religioustolerance.org/scs_intr.htm

It's been upheld by the courts for centuries, it's hardly a construct of liberals and nonbelievers. Being a nonbeliever does not equal being anti-god by the way.

This started off as an amusing post, in fact Roos wasn't sure whether to post it here (being as it is current, as in that time of year) or jokes.

Can we get it back on track?

Sorry, Sue. I get a bit testy when people start in on the whole liberal bashing and calling people anti-God. It hit a nerve and I wanted to correct a common fallacy. I'll be a good girl, I promise.

Sorry. I thought that since everyone else was voicing their opinions I would state mine. Not my fault that some here see my words as "bashing ".

I give up.