#288571 - Mon Dec 19 2005 03:02 AM
Merry P.C. Christmas?
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Multiloquent
Registered: Mon Feb 10 2003
Posts: 2167
Loc: Sydney
NSW Australia
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I wasn`t sure if this should have been posted in the jokes section or not. Either way here is one of the funniest articles I have read in a while about Christmas. Quote:
Battles rage in U.S. over celebrating holidays
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Ebenezer Scrooge would enjoy Christmas in America this year.
Drowning out the sounds of sleigh bells ringing and children singing are the sounds of arguing. At issue is how to greet people, how to decorate main street and how to sell gifts -- all without offending someone.
Religious conservatives are threatening lawsuits and boycotts to insist that store clerks and advertisements say "Merry Christmas." Countering are those who argue they are being inclusive and inoffensive with the secular "Happy Holidays."
In the middle seem to be most Americans, who not only aren't offended but find the whole spat rather ridiculous.
"You'd think there might be some Christmas spirit around Christmas time around the issue of Christmas," said Paul Cantor, a popular culture expert and professor at the University of Virginia. "It's one time you really wish people really could live and let live."
Alas, that's not what this Christmas is all about.
Sparks flew when U.S. President George W. Bush sent out cards referring to the "holiday season," a leading Republican declared the decorated tree on the Capitol lawn a "Christmas Tree" and not a "Holiday Tree" and the logger who cut down the tree for the Boston Common was so upset when officials called it a "Holiday Tree" that he said he'd rather see it fed into a wood chipper.
"HANGING OF THE GREENS"
Conservative groups have marshalled the forces of lawyers volunteering to help anyone fighting for Christmas displays and launched boycotts of retailers whose advertisements fail to say "Merry Christmas."
A school system in Texas found itself in court after teachers asked children to bring white -- rather than red and green -- napkins to a party, while Annapolis, Maryland raised hackles by calling its evergreen boughs and ribbons on public buildings the "Hanging of the Greens" rather than "Christmas decorations."
Fanning the flames are conservative talk show personalities bemoaning the secularisation of Christmas. Fox News anchor John Gibson chimed in with a book "The War on Christmas: How the Liberal Plot to Ban the Sacred Christian Holiday is Worse than You Thought."
"'Happy Holidays' and 'Season's Greetings' are not a substitute for 'Merry Christmas,'" said Manuel Zamorano, head of the Sacramento, California-based Committee to Save Merry Christmas, which organises store boycotts over holiday advertising.
"Christmas is the holiday and 'Merry Christmas' is what we want to hear," he said. "It's political correctness gone amok."
BLAME POLITICS
Bah humbug, said radio talk show host Bill Press, author of "How the Republicans Stole Christmas."
"People have been saying 'Happy Holidays' for a hundred years at least," he said. "This is nothing new. It just celebrates the diversity of America."
He blames politics.
"It is all by design," he said. "The more people are talking about who's saying 'Happy Holidays' and who's saying 'Merry Christmas,' the less people are talking about Karl Rove, torture, Tom DeLay, the war in Iraq and other hot issues.
"And the more they stir up their evangelical Christian base over this issue, the more likely they are to get out and vote Republican in 2006," he said.
The debate has become comic grist.
"Every time you say 'Happy Holidays,' an angel gets AIDS," warned television comedian Jon Stewart.
The satirical newspaper The Onion wrote a spoof about a judge who declared Christmas unconstitutional, with a photograph purporting to be workers dismantling the famed tree at Rockefeller Center to comply with the judge's ruling.
Making the rounds on the Internet is a series of mock memos from a fake company inviting employees to a Christmas Party, complete with open bar, gift exchange and tree lighting.
By the last of the memos, the increasingly beleaguered company is forced to apologise to its Jewish employees, the office alcoholics, Muslims, dieters, pregnant women, gays and lesbians, union members, management, cross-dressers, diabetics and vegetarians. In the end, the party is cancelled.
RETAILERS IN THE MIDDLE
Stuck in the middle of the debate are retailers, whose seasonal selling campaigns seem to raise particular wrath.
"When someone says 'Happy Holidays,' they're saying something very nice to you. There's no ill intent behind any of this," said Dan Butler of the National Retail Federation. "When you're dealing with the public you'll get positive comments and negative comments about everything in the world."
Perhaps, added Peter Steinfels of the Center on Religion and Culture at Fordham University, there isn't a war on Christmas after all but a more sensitive religious right.
Conservatives are using the super-fast Internet and e-mail to publicise what they see as extreme examples of "super politically correct conduct," he said. "It gives the impression that there's a great deal of political correctness ... when in fact it may not really be so different from the way it's always been."
From here.
The following quote is the memo mentioned in the quote above.
Quote:
FROM: Patty Lewis, Human Resources Director
TO: All Employees
DATE: October 01, 2003
RE: Christmas Party
I'm happy to inform you that the company Christmas Party will take place on December 23, starting at noon in the private function room at the Grill House. There will be a cash bar and plenty of drinks! We'll have a small band playing traditional carols...feel free to sing along. And don't be surprised if our CEO shows up dressed as Santa Claus! A Christmas tree will be lit at 1:00pm. Exchange of gifts among employees can be done at that time; however, no gift should be over $10.00 to make the giving of gifts easy for everyone's pockets. This gathering is only for employees! Our CEO will make a special announcement at that time!
Merry Christmas to you and your family.
Patty
FROM: Patty Lewis, Human Resources Director
TO: All Employees
DATE: October 02, 2003
RE: Holiday Party
In no way was yesterday's memo intended to exclude our Jewish employees. We recognize that Chanukah is an important holiday, which often coincides with Christmas, though unfortunately not this year. However, from now on we're calling it our "Holiday Party." The same policy applies to any other employees who are not Christians or those still celebrating Reconciliation Day. There will be no Christmas tree present. No Christmas carols sung. We will have other types of music for your enjoyment.
Happy now?
Happy Holidays to you and your family.
Patty
FROM: Patty Lewis, Human Resources Director
TO: All Employees
DATE: October 03, 2003
RE: Holiday Party
Regarding the note I received from a member of Alcoholics Anonymous requesting a non-drinking table ... you didn't sign your name. I'm happy to accommodate this request, but if I put a sign on a table that reads, "AA Only"; you wouldn't be anonymous anymore. How am I supposed to handle this?
Somebody?
Forget about the gifts exchange, no gifts exchange are allowed since the union members feel that $10.00 is too much money and executives believe $10.00 is a li ttle chintzy.
NO GIFTS EXCHANGE WILL BE ALLOWED.
FROM: Patty Lewis, Human Resources Director
TO: All Employees
DATE: October 04, 2003
RE: Holiday Party
What a diverse group we are! I had no idea that December 20 begins the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, which forbids eating and drinking during daylight hours. There goes the party! Seriously, we can appreciate how a luncheon at this time of year does not accommodate our Muslim employees' beliefs. Perhaps the Grill House can hold off on serving your meal until the end of the party- or else package everything for you to take it home in little foil doggy baggy. Will that work? Meanwhile, I've arranged for members of Weight Watchers to sit farthest from
The dessert buffet and pregnant women will get the table closest to the restrooms. Gays are allowed to sit with each other. Lesbians do not have to sit with Gay men, each will have their own table. Yes, there will be flower arrangement for the Gay men's table. To the person asking permission to cross dress, no cross-dressing allowed though. We will have booster seats for short people. Low-fat food will be available for those on a diet. We cannot control the salt used in the food we suggest for those people with high blood pressure to taste first. There will be fresh fruits as dessert for Diabetics, the restaurant cannot supply "No Sugar" desserts. Sorry!
Did I miss anything?!?!?
Patty
FROM: Patty Lewis, Human Resources Director
TO: All #### Employees
DATE: October 05, 2003
RE: The #### Holiday Party
Vegetarian p##s I've had it with you people!!! We're going to keep this party at the Grill House whether you like it or not, so you can sit quietly at the table furthest from the "grill of death," as you so quaintly put it, and you'll get your ### salad bar, including organic tomatoes. But you know, tomatoes have feelings, too. They scream when you slice them. I've heard them scream. I'm hearing them scream right NOW! I hope you all have a rotten holiday! Drive drunk and die,
The Bitch from HELL!!!!!!!!
FROM: Joan Bishop, Acting Human Resources Director
TO: All Employees
DATE: October 06, 2003
RE: Patty Lewis and Holiday Party
I'm sure I speak for all of us in wishing Patty Lewis a speedy recovery and
I'll continue to forward your cards to her. In the meantime, management has decided to cancel our Holiday Party and give everyone the afternoon of the 23rd off with full pay.
Happy Holidays!
From here.
_________________________
Responds to stimuli, tries to communicate verbally, follows limited commands, laughs or cries in interaction with loved ones.
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#288572 - Mon Dec 19 2005 03:29 AM
Re: Merry P.C. Christmas?
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Prolific
Registered: Fri Dec 02 2005
Posts: 1305
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Quote:
tomatoes have feelings, too. They scream when you slice them. I've heard them scream. I'm hearing them scream right NOW! I hope you all have a rotten holiday! Drive drunk and die,
The Bitch from HELL!!!!!!!!
ROFL! LMAO! lololololol
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#288573 - Mon Dec 19 2005 04:19 AM
Re: Merry P.C. Christmas?
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Forum Champion
Registered: Mon Apr 22 2002
Posts: 5007
Loc: Western Australia
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Would you believe that one of our hospitals here in Western Australia has taken the traditional ham off the Christmas menu for fear of offending Muslim patients! It does not appear to have occurred to these idiots that one could offer the patients a choice - ham or something else. Apparently, from now on, only halal meat is going to be offered on the hospital menu. Political correctness gone mad, in my opinion.
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Don't say "I can't" ... say " I haven't learned how, yet." (Reg Bolton)
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#288574 - Mon Dec 19 2005 09:54 AM
Re: Merry P.C. Christmas?
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Administrator
Registered: Sun Dec 19 1999
Posts: 38005
Loc: Jersey
Channel Islands
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I can't be doing with political correctness at all. Whatever I say or do is not intended to cause offence and if anyone reads more into what I say or do, then I apologise.
My own daughter got upset with me recently when I used the word 'disabled' to mean people with disabilities. She says there is a difference, that she has a disability but isn't disabled - if you understand that then you are brighter than me.
In Britain which has a diverse ethnic population it is still 'Merry Christmas and a happy new year', even our buses (in Jersey) are flashing it up on their destination boards.
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Many a child has been spoiled because you can't spank a Grandma!
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#288575 - Mon Dec 19 2005 09:59 AM
Re: Merry P.C. Christmas?
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Forum Adept
Registered: Thu Oct 13 2005
Posts: 127
Loc: New York
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This is a very sensitive subject in The U.S. The PC crowd led by the ACLU has been trying to remove Christ from Christmas for many years now.
There is however a growing backlash by people who believe in God and Christmas to fight back.
Many retail stores have stopped using Christmas in their advertising and don't allow employees to wish anyone a Merry Christmas..I and many others have boycotted these stores and they are beginning to see the light..or should I say their bottom line is being effected so some of them are changing policy.
No big secret that Christians are under attack in the U.S.
_________________________
Fidelis Ad Mortem
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#288576 - Mon Dec 19 2005 10:01 AM
Re: Merry P.C. Christmas?
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Star Poster
Registered: Fri Jan 30 2004
Posts: 14486
Loc: North West of England
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Always be Merry (or Happy) Christmas to me too...don't really like Christmas being shortened to Xmas much  Although people are welcome to celebrate their own versions of Christmas too
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My mind is like a parachute...it functions only when open.
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#288577 - Mon Dec 19 2005 10:11 AM
Re: Merry P.C. Christmas?
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Administrator
Registered: Sun Dec 19 1999
Posts: 38005
Loc: Jersey
Channel Islands
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To a Brit holiday is what we go on, your vacation in fact. We also get public or bank holidays when we get a day off work, with pay such as Christmas Day, Boxing Day, New Years Day, Good Friday, Easter Monday, May Day, Late Spring holiday and August bank holiday, and here in the Channel Islands we get Liberation Day too except that it isn't either a public holiday nor a bank holiday, we just get it off if it falls on a working day. We just never wish people a 'happy holidays'.
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Many a child has been spoiled because you can't spank a Grandma!
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#288578 - Mon Dec 19 2005 10:21 AM
Re: Merry P.C. Christmas?
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Forum Champion
Registered: Sun May 18 2003
Posts: 7842
Loc: Arizona USA
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I went shopping the other day at a mall in a large city in a neighboring state. This was a fairly large mall and as soon as I walked in the doors it had a decidedly odd feel about it. At first I couldn't figure out was it was, but then it hit me: there were no Christmas decorations anywhere! None! At this time of year stores are usually decorated beautifully and are filled with throngs of Christmas shoppers. Not here. Since I was shopping for gifts, somehow the undecorated stores left me in a depressed mood. I left and went looking for another mall. I found one a few miles away that was decorated in reds, greens, tinsel, and was very festive looking. It cheered me right up and I finished my shopping. I guess the first mall decided to be PC and forego any type of holiday dressing. I suppose that's what we have to look forward to if these arguements contintue. How depressing.
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May the tail of the elephant never have to swat the flies from your face.
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#288579 - Mon Dec 19 2005 10:32 AM
Re: Merry P.C. Christmas?
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Administrator
Registered: Sun Dec 19 1999
Posts: 38005
Loc: Jersey
Channel Islands
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Eleven years ago I visited California in December and was there over the Christmas period and thought the decorations everywhere were quite spectacular, wonderful.
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Many a child has been spoiled because you can't spank a Grandma!
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#288580 - Mon Dec 19 2005 01:15 PM
Re: Merry P.C. Christmas?
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Prolific
Registered: Fri Dec 02 2005
Posts: 1305
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How come folks can get whatever religious holidays they need whether they be Wican, Muslim or Jewish but its wrong for us to openly celebrate Christmas?
If we insisted the lighting of the Menoarra (apoligize for spelling disability) be ONLY refered to as lighting of candles and no Jewish terms ever used, displayed or spoken then isn't that the same supposedly politically correct way?
I just chose Jewish because I'm more familiar with some of the customs since ,in my experience, I've seen celebrated more openly.
Which really is the only difference with Christmas, n'est pas? It's celebrated openly.
Geeeeze, Christianity masaccred...*ahem*...I mean settled North America. I'm sure the dominant religion that butchered its way to the top in other parts of the world don't feel bad about celebrating their holidays! Mohammed wasn't exactly a Ghandi-like revolutionary.  And it IS against the law in Arabia to celebrate publically anything BUT one religion.
I'm being tongue-in-cheek on purpose. Just wish we could all enjoy each other's freedom to celebrate instead of it becoming a contest of beliefs. Can't think of one religion that hasn't had a jaded past at one time or another.
Mind you? Those vegans get to me too. 
Edited by trifle (Mon Dec 19 2005 01:17 PM)
_________________________
The true miracle is not to fly in the air,
or to walk on water....
but to walk on this earth.
_______________ Chinese Proverb
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#288581 - Mon Dec 19 2005 01:54 PM
Re: Merry P.C. Christmas?
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Multiloquent
Registered: Wed Nov 12 2003
Posts: 2165
Loc: Nebraska USA
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Speaking as someone you all know as being on the not-Christian end of this discussion, I will say this: I, at least, have never met anyone who is willing to advocate the addressing of other holidays but NOT Christmas. The point of this entire discussion is not to remove Christ from Christmas, but to remove the concept of exclusively Christian celebration from a time of year where most of the major religions celebrate something, and even those without faith as well. The "Happy Holidays" is not meant to disregard the Christian element, but to include also the Jewish element and the Muslim element and the secular element. It doesn't lift those religions above Christianity, because no one is advocating replacing mention of Christmas with mention of Chanukkah or Ramadan.
Boycott if you wish. The fact of the matter is, not everyone celebrates Christmas, and so some people saying Happy Holidays might not mean they're being PC or Anti-Christ, it may just mean they aren't Christian, and since Christmas isn't the only holiday celebrated at this time of year, non-Christians might not want to exclude Christians from their holiday well-wishing. They could, instead, start wishing everyone a Happy Chanukkah sometime in November, and not care whether the person they were speaking to was Jewish or not.
For my part, I do believe the entire discussion is just a little off the deep end, from both sides of the extreme. I can't understand how any true Christian could possibly think that a bunch of PC nutjobs could succeed in actually removing the deep spiritual and personal meaning of the Christmas season by advocating the phrase "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" in NOVEMBER, which ISN'T Christmas anyway! If your faith is so easily swayed by what people say that you have to raise a fuss about it, it worries me. But that goes both ways. I couldn't care less what people say to me as far as greetings are concerned. Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukkah, Blessed Solistice... Whatever. The fact that someone would be thoughtful enough to wish me a happy or merry ANYthing is reason enough to be pleased in this world where everyone is becoming more and more impersonal all the time. Why would anyone, be they Christian or PC nutjobs, be so obsessed by the words used? I just don't get it.
Edited by Lothruin (Mon Dec 19 2005 02:02 PM)
_________________________
Goodbye Ruth & Betty, my beautiful grandmothers.
Betty Kuzara 1921 - April 5, 2008
Ruth Kellison 1925 - Dec 27, 2007
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#288582 - Mon Dec 19 2005 04:04 PM
Re: Merry P.C. Christmas?
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Forum Adept
Registered: Thu Oct 13 2005
Posts: 127
Loc: New York
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I agree with one thing you said..you are right..you just don't get it. Don't tell me what I should or should not be offended by.
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Fidelis Ad Mortem
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#288583 - Mon Dec 19 2005 04:23 PM
Re: Merry P.C. Christmas?
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Administrator
Registered: Sun Dec 19 1999
Posts: 38005
Loc: Jersey
Channel Islands
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Not again!
I don't see that she has said what you should or should not be offended by. State your views by any means but keep personal attacks out of it.
_________________________
Many a child has been spoiled because you can't spank a Grandma!
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#288584 - Mon Dec 19 2005 04:41 PM
Re: Merry P.C. Christmas?
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Moderator
Registered: Wed Mar 15 2000
Posts: 16214
Loc: The Delta Quadrant
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I can't remember if we actually did this or not when I was a cashier, but I remember one Christmas season when a couple fellow cashiers and I said we should address one customer with "Merry Christmas", the next with "Happy Hanukkah", etc and just hope that we matched up the people with their religions. (Well, unless they were wearing or said something that clued us in to their religion.)
And yes, I don't like the XMas thing either, unless you're writing your own list. But I hate it in something like an ad or anything in print for others!
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"Without the darkness, how would we see the light?" ~ Tuvok
Editor for Television Category
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#288585 - Mon Dec 19 2005 04:48 PM
Re: Merry P.C. Christmas?
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Multiloquent
Registered: Wed Nov 12 2003
Posts: 2165
Loc: Nebraska USA
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MikeyD6:
Happy Holidays. I mean it. I hope that your celebration of your faith, of goodwill toward men, of the promise that Christ's birth brought to all Christians for forgiveness of their spirits and in their hearts, is everything and more that the Christmas season can offer, and that your New Year brings you the fulfillment of dreams and the love of friends and family. I hope that your joy in your faith and the love and hope that Jesus represented finds it's way into your words as well as your heart. So Happy Holidays, MikeyD6.
_________________________
Goodbye Ruth & Betty, my beautiful grandmothers.
Betty Kuzara 1921 - April 5, 2008
Ruth Kellison 1925 - Dec 27, 2007
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#288587 - Mon Dec 19 2005 08:14 PM
Re: Merry P.C. Christmas?
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Star Poster
Registered: Sat Feb 10 2001
Posts: 18899
Loc: California USA
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I've never liked the Xmas thing until someone pointed out that it actually resembled the signs of early Christians, ie; the one comes up and draws a line in the earth, then the other one crosses it to indicate he or she is a Christian.
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#288588 - Mon Dec 19 2005 09:11 PM
Re: Merry P.C. Christmas?
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Multiloquent
Registered: Wed Nov 12 2003
Posts: 2165
Loc: Nebraska USA
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Ladymacb, that actually brings about a question I've been interested in asking. I may have actually asked it before, but in an inappropriate place. I think this is the right discussion for this question, though. I just want to know what other peoples' opinions are. It seems that a lot of people want things done a certain way, but it seems like it might be a losing battle no matter which way you choose.
When wishing a happy holiday of whatever religion... Is it more appropriate to wish a happy holiday in the method of the faith of the person too which you are speaking, or in the faith in which you, yourself, believe? I know some Christians who would think it blasphemous for me, a heathen by all accounts, to wish someone a Merry Christmas because I don't believe in Christ as the savior and don't have a spiritual link to Christmas as a holiday. On the other hand, I know people who would be offended if I were to wish them a Happy Holidays because to them, the holiday in question is Christmas, and sacred, and using the secular demeans it, even if I mean more than one holiday, as in Thanksgiving, Christmas and the New Year, or just a general "Don't know who you are or what your faith is, but this is a special time of year for a lot of people, so I hope you have a good one" kind of way.
That is why many people stick to the benign, if secular, greeting. It is easier to wish a person a happy holiday season, knowing they may not share the same faith but are likely celebrating SOMETHING at this time of year, than bother to find out what they do celebrate, or for fear that they will offend. And no matter what you do, someone will be offended by it anyway, as I described above.
That is also why I personally think it is foolish to dismiss someone's well-wishes simply because of their choice of wording. For me, this is a secular season of good will and love, celebration of family and rebirth and just general good feelings. (Helps that I really like winter, and snow.) That anyone would choose to wish me well, regardless of their words, shows that the feeling of good cheer is pervasive, is above religious beliefs, even if those beliefs are the bedrock for some. That strangers wish each other good cheer and happiness helps me wash away some of my bitterness from the long year behind me and look forward to the new year ahead. To me, it doesn't matter what words people use, it is their effort in connecting with their fellows, in sharing those sparks of joy, that is the essence of this season, and I simply do not understand how that feeling of goodwill can fail to pierce all people the same. Maybe it is that I do not understand the depth of faith some people have, maybe it is that I do, but I don't know which.
Edited by Lothruin (Mon Dec 19 2005 09:36 PM)
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#288589 - Mon Dec 19 2005 09:46 PM
Re: Merry P.C. Christmas?
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Multiloquent
Registered: Wed Nov 12 2003
Posts: 2165
Loc: Nebraska USA
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Oh, and Trifle, I meant to address this earlier, in more specific terms. Of course it would be objectionable to remove the religious significance of the Menorah. It is also objectionable to remove the religious significance from Christian practices. I think it relatively benign to point out that many tradtional Christmastime practices are either secular in origins and adopted by Christians or are shared with other faiths or lack thereof. I doubt anyone would suggest that nativity scenes not refer to the baby Jesus, for instance, but I strongly hope that few people would object if Candy Canes were packaged without the word Christmas on them. (See Snopes if you think you know all about the shape of the cane representing Jesus, etc. Sometimes a candy cane is just a candy cane.) Removing Christmas from shopping ads in November doesn't seem like it is singling out Christmas in a spiteful way. It seems to me like it is acknowledging the celebrations of all, at the expense of none, since November is not holy for Christians, as far as I know.
I can understand how it might seem that way, though. The ads say "Holiday shoe sale" instead of "Christmas shoe sale" and "holiday decorations" instead of "Christmas decorations." I can only surmise that since shoes are sold for a myriad of reasons, it shouldn't be necessary that the sale be labled as Christmas, since they could just as easily be worn for a New Year's party. And that the decorations include paper wrapped with Jewish symbols, and therefore "Christmas decorations" wouldn't even be accurate. I see how it would be easy to feel slighted, since it would be easy to see these things as belonging to Christmas, since everything at this time of year belongs to Christmas if you're Christian, but I just don't see how it is tearing anyone down to have shopping be more inclusive.
And I've heard so many people complain about how materialistic, how secular Christmas has become. If Christmas is taken out of the shopping mall and put back in the minds and hearts of Christians where it belongs, isn't that a step in the right direction, not the wrong one?
Like I said, I can see both sides, but I don't really understand it. Sometimes, when I get a little down about it all, I think that some people simply need the words "Merry Christmas" staring them in the face at all times to help remind them they should feel blessed, otherwise they would forget. Like if they never saw the words "Merry Christmas" on a sign at the mall, they would simply not feel it at all.
Edited by Lothruin (Mon Dec 19 2005 09:48 PM)
_________________________
Goodbye Ruth & Betty, my beautiful grandmothers.
Betty Kuzara 1921 - April 5, 2008
Ruth Kellison 1925 - Dec 27, 2007
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#288590 - Mon Dec 19 2005 11:36 PM
Re: Merry P.C. Christmas?
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Multiloquent
Registered: Sun Feb 20 2005
Posts: 3334
Loc: Wisconsin USA
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I think that this issue becoming an issue is completely ridiculous.
If people are actually trying to get the saying "Merry Christmas" out of the community, then they should accept the fact that the greeting itself is in no way trying to convert or harm them. Freedom of religion should constitute the right of people to say which greeting they want. If a person wants to say Merry Christmas or Happy Hanukkah, then by all means, they have that right.
Those who believe that "Happy Holidays" is trying to assault Christianity is simply absurd. Not all people are Christian, and not all people want to be. If a business (which by the way does not always consist of strictly Christians) wishes to have that greeting, then let them have it. The fact that people are boycotting stores that don't use "Merry Christmas" is also ridiculous. "Happy Holidays" is just a combination of greeting everybody for every holiday. Would you boycott a store for saying Happy Hannukah? It is one of those holidays that is included in the greeting. By the way, if you answered yes, then please stay far away from me.
I am a Christian, but I get really upset at those who are completely intolerant of other religions. I am also upset when those who wish to express their religion, cannot do so. In these senses, we would not be following freedom of religion. Just don't be upset if the religion isn't yours.
Anyone who is upset by the greetings Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays should really find something else to worry about.
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Perception is everything.
Editor: World, History, and General
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#288592 - Tue Dec 20 2005 04:55 AM
Re: Merry P.C. Christmas?
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Forum Champion
Registered: Mon Apr 22 2002
Posts: 5007
Loc: Western Australia
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"The point of this entire discussion is not to remove Christ from Christmas, but to remove the concept of exclusively Christian celebration from a time of year where most of the major religions celebrate something, and even those without faith as well. The "Happy Holidays" is not meant to disregard the Christian element, but to include also the Jewish element and the Muslim element and the secular element. It doesn't lift those religions above Christianity, because no one is advocating replacing mention of Christmas with mention of Chanukkah or Ramadan."
From what I can see, I don't think Christians have a problem with sharing the holiday season with other religions. It seems to me that the problem is the active suppression of Christian elements whilst promoting other elements.
For example, going back to the item I mentioned above, where one of our hospitals has removed the traditional ham from the Christmas menu in case Muslim patients are offended. Why not offer a choice on the menu? Why can't non-Muslim patients have ham? Why is the tradition of one group suppressed in favour of another group?
One of our local preschools held an ornament-making class. But the children were not allowed to use the traditional colours of red, green and white. Instead they had to use "earth" colours, because there were some Aboriginal students in the class. Why can't the kids use whatever colours they like?
Australia has a Christian heritage. According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, the last census in 2001, resulted in the following: 69% of Australians stated they were Christian on their census form. Only 5% (yes, FIVE) were of non-Christian religions. And 26% claim to have "no religion" or did not answer the question adequately enough to be classified. Accomodating multiculturalism should not cause the active suppression of the heritage of any country or group of people, be it Christian or Muslim.
And the bottom line is "Jesus is the reason for the season"! Christmas is about the birth of Christ - not the birth of Santa Claus, Rudolph or Mohammad.
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Don't say "I can't" ... say " I haven't learned how, yet." (Reg Bolton)
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#288593 - Tue Dec 20 2005 06:58 AM
Re: Merry P.C. Christmas?
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Star Poster
Registered: Thu Oct 16 2003
Posts: 10984
Loc: Burlington Ontario Canada
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I have to agree with Carole. I am happy to learn about other winter celebrations, and encourage my children to respect them. In fact in Ontario, part of the Gr 2 curriculum is to study other celebrations and they do many, including Hanukkah, Id, Dwali, and Ramadan (forgive my spelling if I've messed it up). However Canada is a predominantly Christian country, and Christian celebrations should be allowed to be taught and celebrated in the schools and shops.
If I were to move to India, would they stop speaking about their religious practices because my children might be offended? I seriously doubt it.
To me it's almost the same as the language issue. This is a bilingual country, English and French, and we are not going to stop posting our signs, and marking our packaging in English and French because some newcomers have trouble reading them.
Around therse parts we have a small, extremely religious, Christian church that frowns heavily on Halloween because it's 'devil worship'. There were a total of 2 families at our school who attended this church, but they thought they had the right to abolish Halloween from the school completely...no costume parade and no crafts involving witches and such. They got nowhere with this, which was how it should have be.
By all means keep your own children from participating, but don't ban it from everybody's children.
_________________________
Editor: Movies/Celebrities/Crosswords
"To insult someone we call him 'bestial'. For deliberate cruelty and nature, 'human' might be the greater insult." - Isaac Asimov
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#288594 - Tue Dec 20 2005 07:56 AM
Re: Merry P.C. Christmas?
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Pure Diamond
Registered: Fri May 18 2001
Posts: 123698
Loc: Canton
Ohio USA
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Well, all I know is this: I'm going to call that individual who serves me at the restaurant a waiter or a waitress - more than likely not a "waitperson" (meaning no offense to anyone's gender as I go) If vegetarians show up for dinner and I'm serving meat loaf I'm not going to fall all over myself apologizing for it (I'm sure we can whip up something they'll like) If it's Mother's Day and I'm in the mood to, I will innocently say "Happy Mother's Day" to every man, woman and child I interact with - not terribly concerned whether they are mothers or not. If I elect to say "excuse me, ma'am" to a feminist who finds that an abominably sexist remark well that's just too bad. No more or less so than if I say "I'm not particularly fond of guns" to a deer hunter. And...if I want to say "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays" or "Grandma Got Run Over By A Reindeer" (and say it in good spirit and such) and somebody gets ouchy about it I'd call them an "ouch" waiting to happen. I do it like everyone else. I find myself weighing my words at holiday times and, often, just about any other time these days. You really can't win, you know? Lest we all become mute and that seems like a lovely Orwellian solution. Merry Christmas to us all. Oh, and also what that mobility impaired, aged reduced, economically maladjusted fictional male offspring of that financial (fictional) consultant in a book said. "God bless us, every one." Somebody needs to wash that kid's mouth out with soap. Right after we ban the book .
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"The best teacher is not the one who knows most but the one who is most capable of reducing knowledge to that simple compound of the obvious and wonderful." ... H. L. Mencken
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#288595 - Tue Dec 20 2005 08:17 AM
Re: Merry P.C. Christmas?
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Multiloquent
Registered: Wed Nov 12 2003
Posts: 2165
Loc: Nebraska USA
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Ultimately, I actually agree with all of you. The views I expressed above about the dynamic between Christmas and other celebrations are mostly a devil's advocate sort of post, or perhaps an argument from where things maybe should have gone, but not where they ended up, if you get my meaning. I agree that each person, each child, should be allowed to celebrate their faith openly. If a Christian child wants to make an ornament with red, green and gold, they should, unless the ornament was an activity in a unit teaching about aboriginal culture rather than just a general activity. But I can't think of any examples, aside from the ever-present greeting argument and the fact that most of the time there are NO celebrations in schools here, that suggests an active suppression of Christianity specifically in the states. I'd need examples of that. I think some people say that just disallowing Christmas parties in schools is an active suppression of Christianity exclusive of other traditions. I don't believe that. I don't see Jewish kids being allowed to discuss their faith but Christian kids not. Maybe I just live in a fairly tolerant part of the country, but then again, maybe not, if you'd seen some of our laws recently. Mothergoose, I can see how your examples would be frustrating, but, at least where I am, I just don't think people are behaving that way. Anyway, I agree that Christians have every right to celebrate their holy day as much as anyone else, and they should do so in all the joy they can find. It's fitting. But the bottom line for me is: Jesus is only the reason for the season for Christians. I enjoy Christian traditions. My family's celebration, though not religious, is primarily made up of Christian traditions because of how my parents grew up, but the birth of Jesus is not what we celebrate, nor should that celebration take precedence over our own just because it happens at the same time of year. For us, OUR celebration is the reason for the season, and we probably act that way, too.
_________________________
Goodbye Ruth & Betty, my beautiful grandmothers.
Betty Kuzara 1921 - April 5, 2008
Ruth Kellison 1925 - Dec 27, 2007
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