Having checked a number of sites, and from what I remember from a talk given by our local alcohol and drug service, tobacco is normally the cause of far more deaths than alcohol.

A site giving some comparisons

It is interesting to note that France has a higher incidence of alcohol related deaths, especially when you consider those strong cigarettes that they smoke there.

It was mentioned on one site that I checked, and it is well publicised, that a small amount of alcohol can actually be benificial for some people, perhaps a glass of red wine each day.

Please note, although the site I have linked to is really in support of the legalisation of cannabis I strongly disagree with this as my own son was a heavy user and ended up in a psychiatric hospital - cannabis is NOT harmless. This thread is not for the discussion of this, I just wanted to make it clear that I am only linking to that site as it gives a table of comparisons between alcohol and tobacco deaths.

Thanks for finding those statistics, Sue. I think that one of the concerns about alcohol-related deaths is that they are rising in Britain, at least according to this report:


http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/health_medical/article306171.ece


This site and especially Table 1 may be of interest, too:


http://www.drugscope.org.uk/druginfo/dru...1%5Cdeaths.html


Edited to change 'deaths from alcohol' to 'alcohol related'

A LONG OVERDUE APOLOGY:

I am sincerely sorry if what I said offended any readers, as it was not my intent to do so. I hope you all accept my apology. (I am not a toothpick either, and I wasn't trying to infer that anyone not so was "morbid.")

Please know that I am a lighthearted individual, and if you ever want me to shut-up... well, just quote my screen name. :-)

I think it is purely a matter of what is "do-able".

A smoking ban in public places is relatively easy to enforce, and has more or less complete public support, even among smokers. It will still be legal to smoke a cigarette and drive a car, care for children, perform brain surgery, etc, at a moment's notice. It will not be illegal to buy cigarettes, possess cigarettes, be under the influence of cigarettes....it will just be an offence to smoke them in a certain place at a certain time. Not much of a drain on the civil or legal authorities, easily enforcable, dealt with by fines (good for the budget) rather than jail time (bad for the budget). All in all, a reasonably good law.
Oppose this to the mess that Prohibition brought to the US, say, and you can see why the autorities are willing to tackle one, and not the other.

Add to this the impossibility of any ban affecting the real negative effects of alcoholism. I mentioned my own personal background in order to make it clear where I stand - if there were any way that a reduction of bar hours, say, would have the slightest useful effect, you'd have me hollering for it. My family has suffered immensely from alcoholism. However, it would not help at all, so what's the point of wasting public funds that could be better spent in funding rehab centres, etc. Those who drink destructively will continue to do so until they are ready to stop - a little thing like a law will not slow them down, when the damage they do to their own health and well being, and those of the people they love, can't.

Sociologists and psychologists slake on such vociferous opinions. Congratulations everyone, this is a hell of a forum.

- many activities may be injurious, laws and rules are designed to limit the damage
- discussions about one activity being as heinous as another are too sophisticated for me
- freedoms muchly involve responsibilities
- addictions (to one thing or another)require counselling and action
- I should ban the kids from watching Jerry Springer: "Be gentle with yourselves and others".

The link below is my opinion on the smoking in public places issue- and no, I never smoked- but both my parents did. My mother has had two strokes and has chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, my father (who still smokes) has had quadruple bypass, several strokes, congestive heart failure, diabetes...and probably, according to his doctors, less than six months to live.

http://blog.funtrivia.com/blogs/archive/2006_2/crisw-butting_in-209.html

In Fort Worth several years ago, it became law that all buildings within the city became smoke-free. I still remember hearing it on the news.

From the American Lung Association - Texas chapter (this link shows all Texas cities with ordinances)

Quote:

---

Smoking prohibited in restaurants unless smoking section with barriers (walls) or special ventilation is provided. (A ventilation system must provide an air change every 15 minutes; exhaust the air to the exterior of the building and the air from the smoking area cannot be drawn across the non-smoking area). A restaurant with 50 seats or fewer must post a sign at the restaurant’s entrance that states “A Nonsmoking Section is not available.” All enclosed dining areas in city buildings, regardless of occupancy, are nonsmoking. Effective: 7/15/97

---

In Plano, it's been illegal to smoke in bars since 1995.

My thanks to Sue, Bloomsby and others who have suggested relevat web sites for statistics and articles relevant tot the discussion re: deaths etc attributable to both smoking and alcohol,

It is obvious that the subject still arouses strong feelings on all sides of the argument, to say nothing of people's experience of the harmful / negative effects on both.

Having started the subject I would have little else to contribute and will now go and read some of the recommended stats / articles etc.

To anyone who feels that anything said by me was judgmental of them - honestly not so. I am a smoker but I am content to observe the ban. I am not a drinker but have absolutely no problem with people who drink provided that their drinking does not impinge on my enjoyment and / or my right to have a quiet time in restaurants and bars and to walk about safely.

The subject itself is fascinating and provided that one keeps and open mind (as opposed to one that's open only as a trap is open) - there is much to learn from everyone's contribution here. I have enjoyed and benefited from all views expressed.

Because of the ban on smoking in the workplace that has now been introduced in Scotland, the company that I work for has decided to implement that ban in England as well, even though it is not due to come into force,legally, until 2007. It means that,although there is, currently, no ban in England, I cannot smoke in my van.This is despite the fact that we are not allowed to carry passengers whilst we are at work, and we are only insured for members of the family when we are not working. We also have to go into environments that may be full of smokers at the time we visit.

I am an ex smoker. I quit cold turkey in Feburary 1996. Not one drag since

Now having said that...I find all this talk about making places non-smoking and all the talk about 2nd hand smoke so foolish. I especially get irate when I hear of large million dollar payoffs to families of people who died from smoked at their own choice.

I find it strange that this country doesn't do away with tobacco altogether. How can we hold companies responsiable for killing people with cigarettes when the product they are making is being used exactly the way it is intended to be used.

Of course we will never do away with tobacco, the taxes and jobs lost would be outrageous!! What hypocrites we are!!

'This country' being WHICH country? This site has members from all over the world so you need to be more specific.

I guess I do:) The USA.

"I find all this talk about making places non-smoking and all the talk about 2nd hand smoke so foolish."

Why? Have you read my blog (link posted above) yet? How are my concerns "foolish"?

I am glad to see so many pubs and restaurants made 'smoke free.'It makes the air smell cleaner and the food more enjoyable.

I smoked for years and finally felt the need to quit -not only for myself, but for the sake of my daughters.

I do, however, sympathise with people who do smoke. I really enjoyed smoking and was loathe to give it up. And I still believe people must have the freedom to do as they choose in the privacy of their own homes or cars.

I don't really think that stopping producing tobacco would be the answer. As we have seen with Prohibition both in the US and here, and with the 'war on drugs' - outright prohibitions don't work very well.

I have worked most of my life in the restaurant and bar industry. I had to quit a few years ago, and find another line of work, because the smoke was having such a bad effect on my asthma. I loved my work, made good money, and was good at it. I don't think that any concern someone like me would have about second hand smoke is "so foolish". I am not able to do a job I am in every other way capable of and qualified for, because some people think they have a right to pollute my air.

Smokers can go ahead and smoke in their own homes, in their own cars, and outside. I have no problem with that, let them. Why do they need to smoke in my workplace?