I suppose the short answer to that question, Heather, may be something like this: Until one reaches an age where age no longer matter, yes!

Seriously, though, I think one of the great benefits of school can be having stimulating peers. Especially at my secondary school that was one of the very best features of school for me - being with boys of the same sort ability, and in some cases, much abler than me. As I may have mentioned elsewhere, about 18% of us went on to Oxford or Cambridge - and got good degrees. (In other words, the school didn't have some knack of getting people in, but provided a really thorough preparation for university).

I'm aware that I was extremely lucky in the schools I attended. What's more, I think that by the criteria usually applied, I would NOT have counted as 'gifted' in the sense of needing special provision ... On the whole, I got on well with the boys in my year-group and the years immediately above and below. I wouldn't have been very happy with much older or much younger kids. I was happily 'embedded' in my form (class) and year-group.

I would have to say that I believe the answer to Bruyere's question is "no". Even leaving out the academic considerations, one has to consider the real living scenarios that kids will run into as adults. How many workplaces, churches, etc. do you know of that consist of persons all of the same age? The normal schooling environment does not prepare kids in the least for real interaction once they hit adulthood. As an adult that was homeschooled all the way through school, I feel that my life experiences prepared me far better for real life and relationships than any other system could have done.

With homeschooling how does one provide a good range of subjects, and how does one cope with the lack of laboratories for the sciences?

Quote:

---

How many workplaces, churches, etc. do you know of that consist of persons all of the same age?

---

I have always said that some of the most important learning happens on the playground at recess, and the population there is not all one age.
Plus, many of the programs in the schools today involve mixing classes so that older children do some mentoring of younger ones.

Quote:

---

With homeschooling how does one provide a good range of subjects, and how does one cope with the lack of laboratories for the sciences?

---

My nieces were home schooled, and this turned out to be one of the main problems. Their parents were well grounded in English and Social Sciences, and the girls got a far superior education in the Humanities than they would have received in public school. However, neither parent was much interested in math and science, so it was never stressed. There was a provincial curriculum that they were supposed to follow, and it was kinda sorta followed, but not really. One of the girls decided that she wanted to go to High School, so did that for her last three years. She was so articulate, and could write so well, that I think she dazzled her teachers a bit, and they glossed over the obvious gaps in her knowledge. Then she went to University, and bam, it all hit the fan. She was completely unprepared to work as hard as she was expected to, and had huge areas of background that she had never been exposed to. It was very difficult indeed for her, she dropped out by Christmas. Now, six or seven years later, after a lot of hard work, she is back in University, and managing, with some struggle.
The other girl was not interested in further education, and has been doing very well - the gaps don't really show up in day to day life.

I would imagine that in various forms such scenarios regarding subject mix must be common.

Elsewhere on web I was interested to read a homeschooled girl who'd recently started college say that her parents had given her an excellent grounding in English language, maths and computing and that this was rather limited.

As for the other point, mixing with other kids is very important, even if the age-spread is rather narrow.

Last but not least, kids must know how much work has to go into worthwhile achievement.

Sometimes the 'asychrony' or whatever they're calling it, is so bad that a kid is going to learn quite the wrong sorts of lessons at school. So there are some cases where getting hazed and beaten up and tortured mentally because you're different in terms of your mind or body, is not the lesson you want your child to learn. When a kid is capable of correcting his or teacher for math errors on the board and though they are raised to be respectful, it's wrong and therefore, as they're children, they basically don't see why this should be so.
Some teachers can handle this, many cannot. I'm sorry to say this, but admitting gracefully in front of a class that you're wrong isn't really that common amongst many teachers.

As to the lack of labs etc, my one child was enrolled in the French national curriculum for two school years if not three. It was very hard to do it one your own as you had to make deadlines and I saw many of the parents doing the work for their children, then, they would perform dismally on the exams that were given to all kids in that age group each year. They had a few tutors for certain subjects such as languages and math, but not in science. Therefore, the science was basically theoretical physics and my child did ok, but would have had difficulty going back to a 'normal' type of program as she lacked hands on knowledge.
One disadvantage is that as many dancers seem to be attracted to the physical nature of dance and spend many hours of their day doing it, studying takes a back seat. THis is why so many of their parents helped them too liberally!

My daughter staunchly refused all assistance during those years and did well. When she went back into the 'normal' school for six months, she was highly organized and beat the others because she was used to doing this on her own and they weren't. The teachers were astounded at her maturity but she used to tell me how much she hadn't missed being forced to go to school whether you needed it or not.

In American school, she had a bit of a hard time adjusting to attending classes where they'd throw candy to you if you got a math problem right. I asked her if she ate the candy, she said of course. She did well, and her lack of assiduity in the last year was glossed over by 'senior slump' which is what we call euphemistically, lack of enthusiasm for school.

She has adjusted very favorably in post secondary as she's so organized. In fact, I'm pretty sure that most first year students have much more trouble adjusting than she did.
She even found a twenty hour a week job in a café to keep herself occupied.

That makes two kids who have had successful experiences in home schooling in the family. I don't think my second child is as good a candidate.

Quote:

---

she had a bit of a hard time adjusting to attending classes where they'd throw candy to you if you got a math problem right

---

Are you joking, Heather? Candy for one correct answer?

In the very early days of mass schooling in England (1820s), at the main school of the British School Society in Southwark if one did very well indeed for a whole week one could get a cash prize of 3d.-6d. depending on age. (It had 400 kids aged about 5-13). The public found this pretty shocking.

No sir, I'm not joking. American teachers do all sorts of gimmicky things like throw you candy for getting answers correct, or little prizes etc.

Many teachers create token economies and in fact, they had someone give us a lecture on how to do it. However, some schools gave up on that because the kids would get their token money stolen or the kids would be doing anything for a buck!

Sometimes these schemes work if the kids are particularly receptive to it, but personally I tended to prefer teachers who gave us more credit for possessing intelligence.

However, the other day I brought candy for a treat the last day, and one kid looked up and said, 'where's the pizza?'
Then later that day, he asked if he was getting extra credit points if he did something.

arrrrgh. I'm not buying into that dolphin training scheme, but many kids are trained to this!


John, actually you haven't heard anything yet, kids get points for trying, which sounds very nice and equality based, but, it does not have to be correct!

The way the one woman did it to avoid them just putting in rubbish, was to check it first and stamp it, then, go around and check to see they'd corrected it.

In a funny way, I don't find that system used in Southwark in the 1820s so bad ... Of course, the kids had to be punctual and behave in addition to doing well. (According to my very rough and ready calculations, sixpence then would have been equivalent to at least £2-£2.50 now. Obviously, given the widespread poverty in that part of London at the time, the money would have amounted to a worthwhile prize in those days).

Yes, the points for effort mentality has spread to this country. Sometimes students of 18-22 used to tell me they deserved ooddles of credit for effort. Imagine the upset I sometimes caused by replying, 'In the real world, the adult world, you need to get things right. Effort doesn't count in the world of work if you get things really wrong'.

I recently came across this article, which people may find useful:

http://www.tcnj.edu/~axe2/homeschooling.htm

I note that in the U.S. and the U.K. one can homeschool children without having any qualification other than being a parent. One doesn't even have to take a basic literacy test!
Homeschooling in these countries is not subject to inspection, either.

I note that in France, which frowns on homeschooling, the kids have to present themselves for a series of tests and examinations once a year.

In Germany and Sweden, attending school (up to a certain age) is seen as an essential duty of every citizen and the courts are most reluctant to allow exceptions. Amomg other things, it's seen as the duty of the state to get kids out of the narrow confines of the home for at least a few hours a day in term time.

Quote:

---

I note that in the U.S. and the U.K. one can homeschool children without having any qualification other than being a parent. One doesn't even have to take a basic literacy test!
Homeschooling in these countries is not subject to inspection, either.

---

Bloomsby, over half of the 50 US states have homeschooling regulations ranging from moderate to very stringent. These regulations require various degrees of complicity in several areas, such as required subject matter, notarized affadavits filed annually with the school board along with a detailed list of objectives in each subject, achievement test scores, and an evaluation of the student's progress by a professional educator at the end of each school year. Even the majority of the states with more lax home school laws require a high school diploma of the home instructor.

I've only posted once in this thread, because I seem to be in the minority, but I will correct statements that are totally false. Homeschooling DEFINITELY is not for everyone, but one thing I know is that my 4 children are well-educated, well-adjusted, and (for the older 3) successful in their chosen fields.

My apologies, cinnanm0n. Thanks for correcting me on that point. I shall have to treat the things I find on the web on this subject more critically. Obviously, homeschooling is an ever hotter potato than I thought.

Well, I am a little biased because it has taken up about 90% of my life for the last 15 years..

I'm sure your children are very grateful.

Although I went to school in the conventional way, my parents always gave me plenty of encouragement and were always willing to talk to me about school subjects that they knew about, and it provided additional stimulation.

Up!