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#308097 - Wed May 24 2006 04:28 AM England By Any Other Name Is Still.....Britain?
vendome Offline
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Registered: Sun May 21 2000
Posts: 1778
Loc: Body: PA USA Heart: Paris   
England. Great Britain. United Kingdom. British Isles. Britain.

Which one is used when?
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#308098 - Wed May 24 2006 04:51 AM Re: England By Any Other Name Is Still.....Britain
sue943 Offline
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Registered: Sun Dec 19 1999
Posts: 38005
Loc: Jersey
Channel Islands    
Actually there are lots of differences, they are not the same at all.

England is a country, as is Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

The British Isles

The British Isles is made up of:- England, Wales, Scotland and N. Ireland; and the Republic of Ireland; and the Isle of Man, Orkney, the Shetland Islands and the Channel Islands.

The British Isles should not be confused with the British Islands, which is a term used to describe England, Wales, Scotland and N. Ireland, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands.

The United Kingdom

The United Kingdom is a shortened term for the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The United Kingdom is made up of England, Wales, Scotland and N. Ireland.

The Republic of Ireland, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands are not part of the United Kingdom.

Great Britain

Great Britain is made up of England, Wales and Scotland.

Offshore islands

Apart from the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands, all other offshore islands are part of the United Kingdom for legislative and administrative purposes. For example, the Hebrides are part of Scotland, and Anglesey is part of Wales.

The Isles of Scilly are administered by their own Council which has responsibility for some services, but the Isles are part of Cornwall for some administrative purposes, for example, policing and voting.

The common travel area

The United Kingdom, the Channel Islands, the Isle of Man and the Republic of Ireland make up the common travel area.

This information is correct, obtained from the CAB. So I live in the British Isles, but I don't live in the UK, now you are really confused!


Edited by sue943 (Wed May 24 2006 04:53 AM)
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#308099 - Wed May 24 2006 06:27 AM Re: England By Any Other Name Is Still.....Britain
vendome Offline
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Registered: Sun May 21 2000
Posts: 1778
Loc: Body: PA USA Heart: Paris   
Thanks, Sue. That's basically what I thought, but the British Isles confused me a bit. For example, would Bermuda be part of the UK and a British Isle? How about the Bahamas? Hong Kong (until it reverts to China)?
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#308100 - Wed May 24 2006 07:21 AM Re: England By Any Other Name Is Still.....Britain
sue943 Offline
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Registered: Sun Dec 19 1999
Posts: 38005
Loc: Jersey
Channel Islands    
Quote:

Hong Kong (until it reverts to China)?




I think you must have been asleep my friend, that happened in 1997!

Bermuda is a British overseas territory, but not part of the British Isles or UK.

The Bahamas are independent now, have been for years, since 1973.

The UK comprises as above, and nothing else.

This confuses many people, most of the people in the UK assume that the Channel Islands are part of the UK, as do most of those wretched dropdown lists on the Internet when you have to give your country, we have to put UK only because we have to put something. Also, when sending mail from overseas, it is often helpful to put 'via UK'.
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#308101 - Wed May 24 2006 07:35 AM Re: England By Any Other Name Is Still.....Britain
ren33 Offline
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Registered: Thu Sep 30 1999
Posts: 12593
Loc: Kowloon Tong  Hong Kong      
Quote:

Hong Kong (until it reverts to China)?



(sniff!!) Well I know we are only little , unlike the mighty US of A, but there ARE about 10 million of us. I agree, Sue, Rich where the heck have you been?
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#308102 - Thu May 25 2006 05:16 AM Re: England By Any Other Name Is Still.....Britain
vendome Offline
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Registered: Sun May 21 2000
Posts: 1778
Loc: Body: PA USA Heart: Paris   
WHOOPS! What I remember about the Hong Kong/China matter was the concern on the part of Hong Kongians (Hong Kongese? Hong Kongites?) that their affluent, capitalistic and democratic way of life would be adversely affected by a communist entity. The fact that troops were not called out and border skirmishes didn't take place put the situation out of my mind. Sorry ren.

I thought that the Bahanas were like Puerto Rico, thought of as seperated from the motherland but in reality a protectorate of......Sorry.
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#308103 - Thu May 25 2006 06:07 AM Re: England By Any Other Name Is Still.....Britain
sue943 Offline
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Registered: Sun Dec 19 1999
Posts: 38005
Loc: Jersey
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shouldn't worry about it - truth be known, althuogh I knew they were not part of us per se, I had to Google to find out when they got independence.
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#308104 - Thu May 25 2006 07:21 AM Re: England By Any Other Name Is Still.....Britain
ren33 Offline
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Registered: Thu Sep 30 1999
Posts: 12593
Loc: Kowloon Tong  Hong Kong      
Quote:

affluent, capitalistic and democratic way of life would be adversely affected by a communist entity



Nah Rich! I am just as affluent, capitalistic and democratic as I have ever been!
We have the PLA around, not that you would notice them, unless like me you are looking (they are really quite cute, not one of them over 12 to look at)


Edited by ren33 (Thu May 25 2006 07:23 AM)
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#308105 - Thu May 25 2006 02:02 PM Re: England By Any Other Name Is Still.....Britain?
charleneq86 Offline
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Registered: Sun Apr 23 2006
Posts: 21
Personally it really gets my back up when people say England instead of Britain.

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#308106 - Thu May 25 2006 02:09 PM Re: England By Any Other Name Is Still.....Britain
sue943 Offline
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Registered: Sun Dec 19 1999
Posts: 38005
Loc: Jersey
Channel Islands    
It annoys me when people say the Channel Islands are part of the UK. What about Great Britain rather than United Kingdom, or vice versa?
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#308107 - Fri May 26 2006 01:23 PM Re: England By Any Other Name Is Still.....Britain
charleneq86 Offline
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Registered: Sun Apr 23 2006
Posts: 21
I don't mind wether Great Britain/United Kingdom is used because they are both correct (i think) but i tend to say United Kingdom.

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#308108 - Fri May 26 2006 01:35 PM Re: England By Any Other Name Is Still.....Britain
sue943 Offline
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Registered: Sun Dec 19 1999
Posts: 38005
Loc: Jersey
Channel Islands    
It depends on where you actually live, they are not the same as you will see from my post above - if you live in Northern Ireland you would be in the UK but not in Great Britain. I live in the British Isles, but not in Great Britain or the United Kingdom. Southern Ireland is also in the British Isles but certainly not in the UK nor Great Britain.
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#308109 - Fri May 26 2006 01:39 PM Re: England By Any Other Name Is Still.....Britain
charleneq86 Offline
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Registered: Sun Apr 23 2006
Posts: 21
Sorry, i meant to say they were both correct for me because i stay in scotland which comes under both titles.

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#308110 - Fri May 26 2006 08:44 PM Re: England By Any Other Name Is Still.....Britain
ktstew Offline
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Registered: Tue Jan 18 2005
Posts: 8717
Loc: Arkansas USA
Thanks so much for posting that list, Sue. Fascinating stuff... I had no idea how complicated the break down was!
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#308111 - Sat May 27 2006 07:19 AM Re: England By Any Other Name Is Still.....Britain
Biggles Offline
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Registered: Thu Jan 09 2003
Posts: 170
Loc: England
I can say I am English or British, but I've never worked out how to say I'm a United Kingdomer, United Kingdomish, ummm, UKish. Filling in forms when I travel abroad I always have to put that I'm from the UK, so I really need a phrase for it.

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#308112 - Sat May 27 2006 08:18 AM Re: England By Any Other Name Is Still.....Britain
sue943 Offline
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Registered: Sun Dec 19 1999
Posts: 38005
Loc: Jersey
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It would be correct to say that you are British, that is your nationality which is completely different to saying where you live. The question would normally be 'What is your nationality?' or 'Where do you live?'. You can be British but living in Botswana or Katmandu.


Edited by sue943 (Sat May 27 2006 08:20 AM)
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#308113 - Sat May 27 2006 09:38 AM Re: England By Any Other Name Is Still.....Britain
ozzz2002 Offline
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Registered: Mon Dec 03 2001
Posts: 20912
Loc: Sydney
NSW Australia
In Australia, the simple solution is to call you all Pommies.. no ambiguity at all!


But I agree with other posters- it is all very fascinating stuff- thanks Sue, for explaining it all.



Edited by ozzz2002 (Sat May 27 2006 09:44 AM)
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#308114 - Sat May 27 2006 10:06 AM Re: England By Any Other Name Is Still.....Britain
sue943 Offline
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Registered: Sun Dec 19 1999
Posts: 38005
Loc: Jersey
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Donations can be sent in the envelopes provided.
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#308115 - Sat May 27 2006 10:50 AM Re: England By Any Other Name Is Still.....Britain
ozzz2002 Offline
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Registered: Mon Dec 03 2001
Posts: 20912
Loc: Sydney
NSW Australia
Geez, first they transport us for stealing a loaf of bread, and now they want it back!

What is a poor convict supposed to do?
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#308116 - Sat May 27 2006 11:32 AM Re: England By Any Other Name Is Still.....Britain
sue943 Offline
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Registered: Sun Dec 19 1999
Posts: 38005
Loc: Jersey
Channel Islands    
I was doing some research earlier in the week about my family and came across a court case at the Old Bailey for someone of the same family name, only got a month in clink, others who stole less got transportation! Some people got the death penalty. I don't know if he is related but it is a very rare name, and the Christian name was a family name and given to the eldest son - so could be.

http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/html_sessions/T18270712.html

A fascinating read.
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#308117 - Sat May 27 2006 07:10 PM Re: England By Any Other Name Is Still.....Britain
charleneq86 Offline
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Registered: Sun Apr 23 2006
Posts: 21
Whats a pommie?

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#308118 - Sun Jul 23 2006 06:10 AM Re: England By Any Other Name Is Still.....Britain
davejacobs Offline
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Registered: Wed Jun 28 2006
Posts: 18
Loc: Southampton Hampshire UK     
I would like when asked my nationality to say what is on my passport, which says 'Citizen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland'. I agree with Biggles that there should be a short way of saying this. I usually say 'UK' here, even though I shrink at having to use a noun when an adjective is asked for.
Mind you, when asked my country, I proudly say England, assuming it is a geographical rather than a political question.

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#308119 - Sun Jul 23 2006 06:48 AM Re: England By Any Other Name Is Still.....Britain
picqero Offline
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Registered: Tue Dec 28 2004
Posts: 2813
Loc: Hertfordshire<br>England UK
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland comprises thousands of islands, mostly very small, of which Great Britain is the largest, and Ireland the second largest. The island of Great Britain comprises the bulk of the landmass of England, Scotland and Wales, and the island of Ireland comprises the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. The correct term for UK residents to use when asked for their nationality is British.
English, Scottish, Welsh, and Irish are all incorrect answers to the nationality question for UK residents, though citizens of the Irish Republic would of course answer 'Irish'.
If asked 'in which country do you reside', England, Scotland, or Wales would be correct, though for most written international and internet usage 'UK' is the only acceptable term for citizens of these countries. UK is also the correct international/internet term for citizens of Northern Ireland, but in stating their country of origin verbally, most would simply say Ireland.


Edited by aramis (Sun Jul 23 2006 09:15 AM)

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#308120 - Sun Jul 23 2006 08:03 AM Re: England By Any Other Name Is Still.....Britain
ren33 Offline
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Registered: Thu Sep 30 1999
Posts: 12593
Loc: Kowloon Tong  Hong Kong      
Quote:

What's a pommie?



The term Pommy for a British person is commonly used in Australian English and New Zealand English, and is often shortened to Pom. The origin of this term is not confirmed and there are several persistent false etymologies.

One theory is that, as the majority of early immigrants to Australia were British, it is rhyming slang for "immigrant" from a contraction of the word "pomegranate", or possibly more directly related to the appearance of the fruit, as it bears a more than passing resemblance to the typical pale complexioned Briton's skin after his or her first few days living under the hot Australian sun.

Another theory is that POM is a shortened acronym of Prisoner of His/Her Majesty (POHM). As many of Australian's first settlers were convicts, sentenced to transportation, this theory holds that upon arrival in the country they would be given a uniform with POHM emblazoned on the back, and that convicts with an extended stay on Australian soil would no longer have to wear the shirt and would often refer to newer entrants into the country as "Pohmmys". Other suggestions hold that POM is a different acronym, such as "Prisoner of Mother England" or "Port of Melbourne". These etymologies are believed to be false, as the term "pommy" was coined long before acronyms were used in common parlance. Moreover, there is no record of prisoners in Australia ever wearing such uniforms.

Another etymology suggests it is short for "pompous" [citation needed], a quality often attributed by Australians to the British.[citation needed]

The use of the word 'Pom' is contentious. Some British people living in Australasia find the term offensive and demeaning, others find it harmless and amusing. Attitudes to the use of the word have varied over the years, from the 1960s when slogans such as 'bash a pom a day' were heard on New Zealand radio, to today, when the word has become so entrenched that few Australians and New Zealanders see any reason to avoid using the word, some even justifying the use of the word as being 'endearing'.
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#308121 - Mon Jul 24 2006 06:20 AM Re: England By Any Other Name Is Still.....Britain
tnrees Offline
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Registered: Wed Mar 09 2005
Posts: 154
Loc: Taunton Somerset UK       
I have heard that the island of Great Britain is so called to distinguish it from Little Britain or Britany - In late Roman times Armorica was depopulated then filled with British refugees from attacks by the Irish & the Saxons

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