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#315166 - Sun Jul 30 2006 11:39 AM Mel Gibson--In Vino Veritas?
chelseabelle Offline
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

July 30, 2006
Mel Gibson Apologizes for Tirade After Arrest

By ALLISON HOPE WEINER
MALIBU, Calif., July 29 — The film star and director Mel Gibson apologized Saturday for belligerent behavior and for saying what he called “despicable” things that he does “not believe to be true” when he was arrested here on a drunken-driving charge early Friday.

But Mr. Gibson, in a statement, stopped short of addressing claims that he made virulently anti-Semitic remarks to an arresting officer, as described on a Web site that posted several pages of the sheriff’s report.

The sheriff’s report, carried on TMZ.com, a Web site owned by Time Warner, said Mr. Gibson had demanded to know if the officer, James Mee, was a Jew. During an obscenity-laced tirade, according to the report, Mr. Gibson also said “the Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world.”

Steve Whitmore, a spokesman for the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department, declined to comment on the report. But he said the department would eventually disclose details of the arrest. “Nothing will be sanitized,” Mr. Whitmore said in a statement.

People associated with the case privately acknowledged the report’s authenticity, but they agreed to speak only on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing investigation.

The report of Mr. Gibson’s outburst further disturbed some people who were already wary of what they saw as anti-Semitic overtones in his 2004 blockbuster “The Passion of the Christ,” and who believe that he has failed to disassociate himself clearly enough from remarks by his father denying the Holocaust.

“If it’s true what’s reported, frequently hatred, bigotry and prejudice, which is controlled, explodes at moments of stress and crisis,” said Rabbi Abraham H. Foxman, national director of the Anti-Defamation League. “Liquor loosens the tongue of what’s in the mind and in the heart, and in his mind and in his heart is his conspiracy theory about Jews and hatred of Jews.”

Late last year, Mr. Gibson began developing a four-hour miniseries on the Holocaust for ABC, in what was widely seen as an effort to patch up his relations with parts of the Jewish community. A spokesman for the Walt Disney Company, which owns ABC, had no immediate comment on the project’s status. Disney’s studio division is also expected to release Mr. Gibson’s film, “Apocalypto.”

Mr. Gibson, who lives in Malibu, was arrested about 2:30 a.m. Friday on suspicion of driving under the influence of alcohol and released on $5,000 bail.

In a one-paragraph statement issued Saturday through his publicist, Alan Nierob, Mr. Gibson said: “I acted like a person completely out of control when I was arrested, and said things that I do not believe to be true and which are despicable. I am deeply ashamed of everything I said, and I apologize to anyone I may have offended.”

Mr. Gibson acknowledged an ongoing battle with alcoholism and said he was taking “necessary steps to ensure my return to health.”


Has Mel shown his true colors?

Well, at least he apologized.
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#315167 - Sun Jul 30 2006 01:45 PM Re: Mel Gibson--In Vino Veritas?
sue943 Offline
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Hmmm. Presumably he is apologising to lots of people.


Edited by sue943 (Sun Jul 30 2006 01:46 PM)
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#315168 - Mon Jul 31 2006 02:24 AM Re: Mel Gibson--In Vino Veritas?
Gatsby722 Offline
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Yikes. Maybe I'm the only one but I'm starting to get shocked when a "celebrity" doesn't get arrested for drunken shenanigans, airport misbehaviour, child endangerment, generally obscene public demeanor(s) or, heck, even mysteriously falling out of suspicious trees!
I reckon nobody told Mr. Gibson that folks who make make marginal movies like "Lethal Weapon 4" and "Air America" that they still have to behave in a civilized manner when out in society. No matter what they've managed to get away with on the big screen or the record stores or the TV?
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#315169 - Tue Aug 01 2006 10:52 AM Re: Mel Gibson--In Vino Veritas?
satguru Offline
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Unfortunately the Nazi attitude to Jews is alive and well but normally well covered. But Mel's father is not a shrinking violet and has publically stated views identical to Hitler's on a number of occasions, leaving absolutely no doubt as to his views. The fact his son seems to have blindly inherited them shows both a lack of independent thought and an admiration for his father, who is clearly right in his eyes whatever he says. here it is
I hope these views will always remain in the minority, though I was told many Austrians (unlike the Germans) highly regret losing the war and genuinely feel they should have won as they were in the right. It's still only in pockets but they mentioned a poster in Lebanon today that says 'Do your duty, kill a Jew'. Not an Israeli or an American but a Jew. I doubt whether Israel was there or not would make a blind bit of difference to those people, as they don't want a world with Jews, and neither apparently does Mel Gibson or his disgusting parent.

During his lengthy radio interview, Hutton Gibson, 85, said Jews were out to create "one world religion and one world government" and outlined a conspiracy theory involving Jewish bankers, the US Federal Reserve and the Vatican, among others.

Straight from Mein Kampf...


Edited by satguru (Tue Aug 01 2006 10:59 AM)
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#315170 - Tue Aug 01 2006 11:55 AM Re: Mel Gibson--In Vino Veritas?
Gatsby722 Offline
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Y'know, satguru, you're right. I've always believed that drinking doesn't really "change" a person overall. It tends to speed up what's already there somewhere, that's all, no matter how latent it was before the alcohol kicked in. It is well and good that Gibson is falling all over himself apologizing for his "drunken rant" but it doesn't wash much with me. Spewing garbage like that had to be within him to have come out in the first place (I, for one, can't imagine using such remarks no matter how snockered I was because they never course through my head or history when I'm sober as a judge). While I think an actor is an actor and his personhood should [or could], if he's a true artist, be separate from his personal soul I think it's safe, now, to call Mel an anti-semitic celebrity for sure. Which, were he a milkman or a dentist, is just a plain disgusting label to have attached to oneself. Especially when that said self is a notable public figure.
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#315171 - Tue Aug 01 2006 03:50 PM Re: Mel Gibson--In Vino Veritas?
ladymacb29 Offline
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Apparently Disney (?) dropped their agreement to produce Gibson's tv movie on the Holocaust. Their stated reason is it's been 2 years and they haven't been given a script from the actor.
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#315172 - Tue Aug 01 2006 04:38 PM Re: Mel Gibson--In Vino Veritas?
gretas Offline
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I've never been a real Mel Gibson fan, but I've liked a couple of movies he's done, namely "Signs" and The Man Without A Face". Watching those movies, I thought I had misjudged someone whom I had always considered relatively one-dimensional. When he brought out "Passion Of The Christ", I was torn, but I honestly felt that the cries of anti-semitism were a little knee-jerk and reactionary. My two closest friends, both Jews, thought that the movie was unabashed Christian sentiment, but they really didn't have any strong opinions on it. But after this latest incident, I am absolutely convinced that, deep-down, at the most basic level, Mel Gibson believes that Jews are responsible for all wars, all well poisonings, etc. It scares me because this is a man who makes his living in an industry in which many Jewish people are in prominent positions. Does he not care? Is there that much irrational hate inside someone who is clearly not a stupid person? As I said, it's scary. And that is WHAT scares me.
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#315173 - Tue Aug 01 2006 04:56 PM Re: Mel Gibson--In Vino Veritas?
ktstew Offline
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That's pretty much on the money, Gats. It's been my experience that whatever thoughts and emotions come out when we drink, those feelings were there already, buried under the surface all along. If I feel good, then a glass of wine makes me feel all that much better. It's impossible for me to drink ' to forget' because alcohol seems to heighten whatever sadness I already feel.

What bothers me most about the Mel Gibson folly is this: It seems he took great pains and risked a personal fortune to produce a 'spiritual' movie, one which would present a serious, thoughtful look at those events of the first century a.d. -surfacely, the story of Jews sacrificing one of their own as a political scapegoat. Many people were moved by it, despite accusations from the Jewish community which labeled Gibson's production as 'racist.' Perhaps the naysayers had more information than I did even back then. It's terrible that a man with so much box office power could possess such flawed judgement - both in his driving habits and his view of spiritual things. And, to add, if we choose to discuss this from a spiritual viewpoint, the scriptures clearly state we are to pray for the peace of Jerusalem and that whoever blesses Israel will be blessed themselves.

What part of those passages did Mel choose to skip over, I wonder?
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#315174 - Tue Aug 01 2006 04:57 PM Re: Mel Gibson--In Vino Veritas?
satguru Offline
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You got it Gats, all those idiots who say drinking 'made them violent'- if it's not in you it can't come out. All alcohol does is reduce inhibitions, much like Tourette's syndrome would or a truth drug, and therefore allow what you don't normally show in public.

Most people I know either get silly, depressed or ill when drunk as they don't have a violent bone in their bodies. You can't change your personality from alcohol, just release it.
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#315175 - Tue Aug 01 2006 05:22 PM Re: Mel Gibson--In Vino Veritas?
bloomsby Offline
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Agreed! Alcohol disinhibits. Those with violent tendencies actually become violent, and closet anti-Semites deliver anti-Semitic outbursts.

As for Austria, that's a long and complicated story. Austrians were heavily over-represented in the SS and the Gestapo - in the entire Nazi terror apparatus, in fact.

When Hitler entered Linz and Vienna just after the Anschluss in 1938, he was greeted with delirious applause that made the Nuremberg rallies look tame. Some Viennese then celebrated the event by forcing Jews to sweep the streets with tooth-brushes.

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#315176 - Wed Aug 02 2006 02:55 AM Re: Mel Gibson--In Vino Veritas?
damnsuicidalroos Offline
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Quote:

"Do I believe that there were concentration camps where defenceless and innocent Jews died cruelly under the Nazi regime? Of course I do; absolutely," he said. "It was an atrocity of monumental proportion."



Mel Gibson from the link Satguru provided.


I don`t know how Gibson feels about people of the Jewish faith. What I do know is that when I drank beer I was a social happy person but when I drank bourbon I became violent. My life at that time was generally peaceful, I didn`t go looking for fights and certainly would prefer to talk with a violent person than fight them. My friends, and most people, found my company desirable, except when I was on the bourbon.

So everyone that has posted here saying that alcohol brings out the true self doesn`t agree that alcohol is a mind altering drug?

As someone that supports Israel, a Jewish nation, morally and financially I would be greatly disturbed if one of my favorite actors was at heart an anti-semitic but one drunken outburst doesn`t mean that he is, nor do his fathers views indicate anything other than the fact his father is a moron.

In vino veritas? I don`t believe that there is always truth in wine.


Edited by damnsuicidalroos (Wed Aug 02 2006 04:34 AM)
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#315177 - Wed Aug 02 2006 04:40 AM Re: Mel Gibson--In Vino Veritas?
chelseabelle Offline
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The man was being arrested for drunken driving, he was carrying on that this would wreck his career, he was threatening the arresting officer and reminding him, "I own Malibu", he unleashed a stream of obscenities, he resisted getting into a police car, and then he suddenly mentions the Jews? The Jews? What on earth did the Jews have to do with what was going on his life at that moment? Doesn't anyone wonder why his comments about Jews suddenly popped out of his mouth at that moment?

He's not just anti-Semitic, he's down-right paranoid regarding the Jews. At the very moment he felt most vulnerable and threatened, he managed to somehow connect it to "the Jews".

I read somewhere that the arresting officer may have been Jewish, but I'm not sure that entirely explains Gibson's comments, or his preoccupation with the Jews. People being arrested for DUI may say a great many things, but I wonder how many others have said things like, "The Jews are responsible for all the wars"? Alcohol may have loosened Gibson's inhibitions, but it didn't suddenly put such specific ideas in his mind.

For the record, he has acknowledged the anti-Semitic nature of his statements,


Quote:

Mel Gibson's apology

Here is the statement released Tuesday by Mel Gibson, referring to his arrest and tirade on Friday.


"There is no excuse, nor should there be any tolerance, for anyone who thinks or expresses any kind of anti-Semitic remark. I want to apologize specifically to everyone in the Jewish community for the vitriolic and harmful words that I said to a law-enforcement officer the night I was arrested on a DUI charge.

"I am a public person, and when I say something, either articulated and thought out, or blurted out in a moment of insanity, my words carry weight in the public arena. As a result, I must assume personal responsibility for my words and apologize directly to those who have been hurt and offended by those words.

"The tenets of what I profess to believe necessitate that I exercise charity and tolerance as a way of life. Every human being is God's child, and if I wish to honor my God, I have to honor his children. But please know from my heart that I am not an anti-Semite. I am not a bigot. Hatred of any kind goes against my faith.

"I'm not just asking for forgiveness. I would like to take it one step further, and meet with leaders in the Jewish community, with whom I can have a one-on-one discussion to discern the appropriate path for healing.

"I have begun an ongoing program of recovery and what I am now realizing is that I cannot do it alone. I am in the process of understanding where those vicious words came from during that drunken display, and I am asking the Jewish community, whom I have personally offended, to help me on my journey through recovery.

"Again, I am reaching out to the Jewish community for its help. I know there will be many in that community who will want nothing to do with me, and that would be understandable. But I pray that that door is not forever closed.

"This is not about a film. Nor is it about artistic license. This is about real life and recognizing the consequences hurtful words can have. It's about existing in harmony in a world that seems to have gone mad." -- Associated Press






That is a masterfully worded statement in the clear service of "damage control" to protect his career.

I may be very cynical, but I find it much less an appreciation of the impact of anti-Semitic statements, and much more an attempt to beg for mercy from the powerful forces that can influence his livelihood.

Consider this comment:


Quote:

"This is not about a film. Nor is it about artistic license. This is about real life and recognizing the consequences hurtful words can have."





Oh, so in a film, such as "The Passion of the Christ", Mr. Gibson can implicate the Jews in the killing of Christ, and thereby potentially stir up the most historically vicious and homicidal attitudes toward Jews, because this is his "artistic license"? Are we to believe that this would then have nothing to do with "real life"? Have the hurtful words "Christ killers" not had very real and dire consequences throughout history? Did Mr. Gibson, in his more rational and sober moments, ever show full appreciation of that fact--or an awareness of the hatred he was potentially stirring up with his film?

I suspect that the only "real life" Gibson is concerned with right now is his own. And the "hurtful words" he is concerned with are things such as "anti-Semite", which, when applied to him, can have terrible consequences for his career.

Or, am I being too cynical?

I am glad that Mr. Gibson appears to be working the 12 Steps of AA by trying to make amends. I am glad that he acknowledges that his remarks were anti-Semitic and that he takes responsibility for having said them, even though he is appropriately puzzled by why he (of course, not an Anti-Semite ) might have had such words flow from his lips under the influence of alcohol. Searching his soul on that matter should be good for him. He might discover things which he would rather not see.

To beg the Jewish community for forgiveness, and beg them to help in his recovery, is both a humbling act of contrition and an effective public relations ploy. Should the Jewish community turn it's back on him now, they will seem hard-hearted, callous, intractable, and cold--in other words, "bad guys"--and Gibson will then become the suffering victim who held out his hand, only to have it stepped on. Very clever strategy. Should they, more likely, take him up on this offer, and openly help him to understand some of his attitudes, actions, and words--and their consequences--perhaps true enlightenment, and amends, might occur. For Gibson, this is a win-win public relations move.

I really hope that Gibson is sincere in wanting to open his mind and his heart to what the Jewish community might want to say to him. I hope he would like to understand how Jews perceive anti-Semitism and what it means to them. Remarks, and the effects of films, aren't just "offensive", they can have down-right deadly consequences. Contrary to what Gibson's father believes, the Holocaust did occur, and it followed hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years of discrimination, dislocation, torture, and killing which came before it. And anti-Semitism is alive and flourishing all over the world right now, and still leading to killings and hatred.

Maybe Gibson needed a small taste of feeling like a victim in order to understand all of this this, and what the fuss is all about, and, perhaps, having his career on the line puts him in that position. Maybe that will be the key to helping him understand, on a deeper level, what it is like to feel rejection, isolation, vulnerability, the hatred of others, and profound fear, simply because you are a member of a particular group. It's not just about the Jews, it's about the power to target, scapegoat, and destroy entire groups of people based on irrational attitudes, distorted views, and stereotyping. Gibson has a lot of potential power to illuminate this situation, change attitudes, and inform others, if he first really understands it and is motivated to try to help put an end to it. But, he must first understand that it is always insanity to blurt out the sort of things he said (like "Jews are always responsible for all wars") the night of his arrest, whether said by a drunken or fully sober person. He must then understand that events, actions, and dire consequences can occur from the influence of such statements--and from the effects of the films that he makes.

Perhaps some good can come out of all of this. That would truly be making amends.


Edited by chelseabelle (Wed Aug 02 2006 04:42 AM)
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#315178 - Wed Aug 02 2006 06:37 AM Re: Mel Gibson--In Vino Veritas?
Jubal Offline
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You know, Gibson only took his information from "The Passion" directly from the gospels in the New Testament. And the film (did you see it btw?) shows the Romans not the Jews killing and torturing Jesus. There was not one single incident of Jew hatred reported, despite the huge outcry that was made prior to the film being released.

His recent incident and the words he spoke are inexcusable, but his second apology was duly noted by the Anti-defamation league who accepted it and hoped to help him work through it.
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#315179 - Wed Aug 02 2006 07:27 AM Re: Mel Gibson--In Vino Veritas?
ktstew Offline
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Actually, the cruel torture and slow execution was planned and carried out by the Romans. The unsuspecting mob gathered to see the hearings unwittingly made the decision, due to some rather slippery wording by the Romans.
Pilate stepped before the people in Jerusalem and said, "Whom would ye that I release unto you? Barabas? Or Jesus, which is called the Christ?" And when they said "Barabas," he said, "But what about Jesus? King of the Jews?" And the outcry was, "We have no king but Caesar".

Devious, but effective, and soon Jesus of Nazareth was on his way up the hill to the cross.


Edited by ktstew (Wed Aug 02 2006 07:31 AM)
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#315180 - Wed Aug 02 2006 07:44 AM Re: Mel Gibson--In Vino Veritas?
chelseabelle Offline
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Quote:

There was not one single incident of Jew hatred reported, despite the huge outcry that was made prior to the film being released.




Well, that depends on who you ask.

Jewish organizations and Jewish leaders who spoke out and expressed concern about the film were flooded with hate mail and hate e-mail.

And, in Canada, incidents of anti-Semitism did appear to increase following the film's release.


'Passion' Increased Anti-Semitic Violence in 2004
Wednesday, March 16, 2005
08:03 AM PT

LOS ANGELES (Zap2it.com) - Predictions that Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ" would incite violence against Jews may have come true.
The League for Human Rights of B'nai Brith says that ever since the release of the controversial film in 2004, anti-Semitic attacks have increased in Canada, according to The Hollywood Reporter.

"Whereas only nine incidents in 2003 had religious connotations to the story of Jesus' death, there were 32 such incidents in 2004, nine of them in February when the movie opened and a further 15 in the three months following its release," reads the 2004 B'nai Brith report.

Some of the incidents described in the audit include: a Montreal caller telling a Jewish organization, "We don't need Mel Gibson's film to hate you!"; a minister on Toronto TV claiming that there was "Jewish plot for world control"; and the defacement of a synagogue with crosses.

Frank Dimant, the VP of B'nai Brith Canada, claims the anti-Semitic incidents reached an all-time high in 2004 and were becoming increasingly violent.

Months before "Passion" opened on Ash Wednesday 2004, critics likened it to Medieval Passion plays, claiming that the depiction of Jews as responsible for Christ's death would create anti-Semitic sentiments and actions.

-------------------------------------------------

And how can one unequivocally say that anti-Semitic attitudes were not fostered or strengthened in some who viewed the film?

The point really is that Gibson was less than sensitive to the concerns that his film might promote anti-Semitism, based on a number of factors in how he chose to portray Jews in the film. The insensitivity could be interpreted as a kind of indifference to a topic which is highly charged, highly relevant, and highly important, to a great many people, particularly Jews.

Perhaps, if Mr. Gibson now enters into a more open-minded dialogue with the Jewish community, he will come to better understand and appreciate the depth and breath of their concerns, and, by extension, the concerns of other minority or oft-scapegoated groups as well (in the past he has also been accused of being homophobic), and he will be better able to use his influence to promote greater understanding and harmony. That would be a happy outcome to this most unfortunate incident.


Edited by chelseabelle (Wed Aug 02 2006 07:47 AM)
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#315181 - Wed Aug 02 2006 11:29 AM Re: Mel Gibson--In Vino Veritas?
satguru Offline
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Oops, sorry Roos, it was an excerpt from the link from his openly anti semitic father. Mel hides his opinions a lot better without the effects of alcohol or stress.
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#315182 - Wed Aug 02 2006 12:22 PM Re: Mel Gibson--In Vino Veritas?
skunkee Offline
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When one is raised in the kind of environment that Gibson was raised in, one cuts one's teeth on anti-semitism.
I can believe that Gibson once spoke the words that his father taught him and even believed them, without really understanding them, in the way that children parrot their parents.
I can also believe that he learned that those attitudes were wrong, as he grew further and further away from parental influence, and that he truly did think that he had shed that cruel and prejudicial attitude.
I want to believe that he really was shocked and disgusted with himself, to hear the hatred that he'd thought he'd put behind him come out of his own mouth. But I don't have any way of knowing how much of his statement is real and how much is public relations. However I do believe that it is possible to be blind-sided like this, as he claims that he was.
I think that roos is right, in that alcohol can really change people and make them say and do things that they normally wouldn't do.
I know someone who really shocked me by spewing forth a whole mass of prejudicial things, while having an allergic reaction to morphine. I'm still not sure how much of that was what she really believed, and how much of it was just the repetition of what she'd heard her parents say many years ago.
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#315183 - Wed Aug 02 2006 03:47 PM Re: Mel Gibson--In Vino Veritas?
ladymacb29 Offline
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If you want to debate whether "Passion..." was anti-semitic, I invite you to make a thread in the Funtrivia Debating Society forum on that topic. Just make sure to keep to this topic (Mel Gibson's drunken statement).

Thanks!
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#315184 - Wed Aug 02 2006 10:57 PM Re: Mel Gibson--In Vino Veritas?
quogequox Offline
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I think we should remember that Mel Gibson is in fact intitled to his opinion, whether others consider them absurd or not. What is equally disturbing is the weight Mel Gibson's words seem to hold. One wonders if John Doe would have had his anti-semetic tirade made public. Who cares what the guy thinks, he's an actor, an entertainer. He makes his money as a professional liar in a world of escapism. He may well think the world is flat and the moon made of cheese. It is those who are incapable of thinking for themselves and follow celebrities like sheep that should be given the reality check.
Life isn't about right or wrong it's about perception. Mel sees things differently, he thinks he's right.
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#315185 - Thu Aug 03 2006 05:57 AM Re: Mel Gibson--In Vino Veritas?
chelseabelle Offline
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Who said Mel Gibson isn't entitled to his opinion? He certainly is entitled to hold any beliefs he wishes. And, I'm sure, that many other anti-Semites also share his views.

But speech and actions carry consequences, and other people are equally entitled to their opinions of Gibson and they are entitled to react to him accordingly.

I wonder why we have such things as "hate crimes" if racist and ethnic derogatory comments are simply "opinions" uttered when one commits an action?

Why not advocate a return to the use of all derogatory racial, religious, sexual, and ethnic slurs in public speech? Let people openly say what's on their minds--regardless of who gets offended, hurt, or killed by the effects of such "free speech". Is it fair to discriminate against bigots and hinder their freedom of expression?

Public figures lead public lives. Gibson is a major player in the movie industry. A lot of money revolves around him, and he depends on the backing of a lot of people. If they find him now to be a liability, or they find him to be the sort of person they'd rather not associate with, his "opinions" will certainly affect his career, and that's the price of "free speech".

But even Gibson isn't defending what came out of his mouth last week. Why would anyone else?

Quote:

Life isn't about right or wrong it's about perception




Isn't that a rather amoral view of things? Aren't there things (i.e. speech, actions, etc.) which society (and religions) deem to be wrong or right?


Edited by chelseabelle (Thu Aug 03 2006 06:10 AM)
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#315186 - Thu Aug 03 2006 06:26 AM Re: Mel Gibson--In Vino Veritas?
Jubal Offline
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The thing is, when Marlon Brando on Larry King Live called Jews "kikes" he wasn't summarily dismissed from the Hollywood elite from being employed there. And Hollywood people have called for Roman Polanski's return from fleeing the country on a statutory rape conviction. So I wonder if part of the outrage is because Gibson is more conservative in his values, a Christian, and doesn't have some of the same views as those supposed defenders of Judaism (who by the way for the most part are roundly attacking Israel for going after Hezbollah. Can you say "hypocritical"?), who inhabit Hollywood and elsewhere around the country and world.
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#315187 - Thu Aug 03 2006 06:54 AM Re: Mel Gibson--In Vino Veritas?
Gatsby722 Offline
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Loc: Canton
Ohio USA    
Personally I think that the outrage comes in that he was mostly popular among the masses (no public figure is liked by everybody, though), that he was blathering hateful remarks while being stinking drunk (not to mention driving around with an open bottle of Tequila for company), and has harpooned the fantasy, real or not, that he has worked so hard to build and enjoy. Then, of course, biting the hand that has fed him so notably AND, for that mysterious reason that it seems that every word that escapes a movie star's mouth ever seems to carry such unthinkable (and so-called) importance just makes it all seem noteworthy. Or more noteworthy. Or something. Whatever's up with Gibson all I believe is that it's now time for him to "own it" and not just think he can "buy and pay for it" with a slippery 'I'm sorry' and a nicely strategic visit to rehab.
Had Brando been sucking the worm out of a bottle of Blue Agave looking like a madman (and sounding like one while he was at it) and going twice the speed limit in a very cool car I don't think he would have fared much better in terms of public opinion. Conservative or not. One is allowed, if memory serves, to act up on Larry King, too.

P.S. I heard an attorney on the news today mention (and this fellow actually seems to be on Gibson's team) that what is on those tapes that the Police have (and the parts that haven't been released yet) are mostly unbelievably bad - even worse than that which we know about at the moment. Naturally, his counsel is trying wildly to see that those tapes don't come into play as evidence ~ which is too bad as I think they need to be heard. Just to get all the cards on the table.
Also, the maximum sentence poor Mel even faces is 6 months in prison. So, bad as this is, it's hardly considered "The Crime of the Century" or anything. More like "The Flavor of the Week" which, in a way, is telling in itself.
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#315188 - Thu Aug 03 2006 02:45 PM Re: Mel Gibson--In Vino Veritas?
ktstew Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Tue Jan 18 2005
Posts: 8717
Loc: Arkansas USA
The bottom line is pretty simple. He said it, [ drunk and at times sober, apparently.] Why apologise? It's what he really thinks and he can dispute it and try to call it back - but he can't. It's out there, and can't be erased from people's minds, no matter how many rabbis he has dinner with. It's the sort of thing one says when they really mean it. Not like saying he prefers blondes over redheads, or that he'll never again own a Ford Mustang. I'm afraid the die is pretty much cast as far as the career goes. He'll probably never have the clout or recognition he once enjoyed.
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#315189 - Thu Aug 03 2006 06:12 PM Re: Mel Gibson--In Vino Veritas?
chelseabelle Offline
Star Poster

Registered: Thu Oct 07 1999
Posts: 10282
Loc: New York USA
jubal, Marlon Brando didn't exactly call Jews "Kikes" in that interview with King.

What he did say was:

BRANDO: "Hollywood is run by Jews; it is owned by Jews, and they should have a greater sensitivity about the issue of -- of people who are suffering. Because they've exploited -- we have seen the -- we have seen the Nigger and Greaseball, we've seen the Chink, we've seen the slit-eyed dangerous Jap, we have seen the wily Filipino, we've seen everything but we never saw the Kike. Because they knew perfectly well, that that is where you draw the wagons around."
KING: When you say -- when you say something like that you are playing right in, though, to anti-Semitic people who say the Jews are --

BRANDO: No, no, because I will be the first one who will appraise the Jews honestly and say "Thank God for the Jews."
----------------------------------------------------

And, even in 1996 (when I think that interview took place), Brando's career was pretty much over anyway. He had very little to lose by anything he said about anybody. One can also debate whether Brando's remarks actually reflected anti-Semitic views or not. He was saying that the Jewish powers in Hollywood, knowing a lot about prejudice and suffering from their own experience, should have been more sensitive about allowing stereotypes, or derogatory portrayals, of other racial/ethic groups in films, since they were apparently more protective of their own ethnic image. Is that anti-Semitic? I don't know, I think it's more a considered opinion than a flat out ethic slur.

I also think you have to understand something about anti-Semitism in order to understand the difference between: 1.Calling someone a "Kike" (a derogatory term) and 2.Saying that Jews are responsible for all wars.
There is a huge difference between those two types of statements. The first is simply insulting and contemptuous. The second is far more typical of the truly pernicious anti-Semitic paranoia which attributes a lust for world power to Jews, and views them as involved in various conspiracies to achieve that end (a view held by Mel Gibson's father). People who are responsible for all the wars are powerful and dangerous people. Dangerous people must be removed, eliminated, or destroyed. And, historically, that has been the solution to "the Jewish problem"--get rid of the Jews.

Gibson saw the arresting police officer as Jewish, and he feared the arrest would destroy his career. At that moment, Gibson's paranoia about all Jews came to the surface. Like "all Jews", this cop was going to make trouble for him by exercising his power, just as Jews were always starting trouble, using their power, and creating upheaval. So, what did Gibson do? First he threw out his comment about the ("F---ing") Jews being responsible for all wars, and then he threatened to "destroy" the cop. Sound familiar? This kind of thinking, and pattern of thought, is deeply, virulently anti-Semitic, and it's a lot worse than just calling someone a "Kike". It's a far more potentially dangerous type of thinking.

That poor Mel is being unfairly treated because he is a conservative Christian is a lot of rot. If, instead of referring to Jews, Gibson had instead said, "The f---ing N---ers are responsible for all the crime the rest of us have to put up with because those damn blacks are so plain f---ing evil", would anyone here feel like defending him? Would anyone think too much fuss could be made about such remarks? Would anyone wonder whether he was really a racist?
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#315190 - Thu Aug 03 2006 06:49 PM Re: Mel Gibson--In Vino Veritas?
Catamount Offline
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Registered: Sun Jul 31 2005
Posts: 113
Loc: Coquitlam BC Canada     
There is no excuse for drinking and driving and there is no excuses for uttering such hateful remarks. I am wondering though, if Mel Gibson had said the same thing about Muslims, would this even be a news story? Or would he get his own editorial column in any one of most of today's mainstream news media?
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