Rules
Terms of Use

Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#318434 - Fri Aug 25 2006 10:48 AM Re: Arrest in Jon Benet Ramsey Case
chelseabelle Offline
Star Poster

Registered: Thu Oct 07 1999
Posts: 10282
Loc: New York USA
I am absolutely sick of seeing this man's picture constantly, and of hearing every known detail about his life hashed and rehashed on all the cable channels, and of having his every movement covered as "breaking news", interrupting whatever else is on the cable news channels.

Why is the media, particularly the cable networks, affording this man such prominence by their clearly excessive coverage of him?

This is hardly "news" coverage since next to nothing is actually publicly known about his involvement in the JonBenet Ramsey case, other than some alleged confession that he was with her the night she died, which might or might not be true. The cable channels really seem to be going overboard scraping the bottom of the barrel for any tidbit (verified or not) to justify all of this over-blown, and grossly out of proportion, coverage. Why?

At best this man is a pathetic loser, with obvious emotional problems and at least some pedophilic inclinations. At worse he is possibly a child murderer. But, whichever is the case, he does not warrant the public attention he is now receiving.

The murder is ten years old, and we haven't yet heard a shred of legal evidence against this man. He is not worthy of anyone's attention or time right now. Perhaps if there is ever a trial, the legal case might be of interest. But the media feeding frenzy focusing on this individual right now is rather sickening. They have turned a rather creepy person into a media celebrity. It is really beginning to turn my stomach.
_________________________
Still Crazy After All These Years

Top
#318435 - Fri Aug 25 2006 10:58 AM Re: Arrest in Jon Benet Ramsey Case
ktstew Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Tue Jan 18 2005
Posts: 8717
Loc: Arkansas USA
What perplexes my 14 year old daughter is this: hundreds of young girls are kidnapped and murdered every year. Why has this little girl's demise [ sad as it may be] be reported on endlessly, and the details reiterated until we don't CARE who did it anymore?
_________________________
A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is just putting on its shoes - Mark Twain

Top
#318436 - Fri Aug 25 2006 01:28 PM Re: Arrest in Jon Benet Ramsey Case
IndieQueen Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Tue Apr 17 2001
Posts: 7306
Loc: Pittsburgh
Pennsylvania USA
That's a question that many people have asked many times, ktstew. Her murder was a horrible thing and I would never, ever say otherwise. But, any murder is a horrible thing. I remember reading a study once that claimed that pretty children from afluent homes get more attention when they go missing or are killed than children of average looks who come from lower-class homes. That could be a myth or a misrepresentation of facts, but it seems pretty close to the truth to me.
_________________________
[color:"purple"] "One of the best features of Forums is that they allow people to parade their monumental stupidity, their hang-ups, their little prejudices in public."
[/color]

Top
#318437 - Fri Aug 25 2006 01:46 PM Re: Arrest in Jon Benet Ramsey Case
Copago Offline
Moderator

Registered: Tue May 15 2001
Posts: 14384
Loc: Australia
It is such a tragic story and probably deserves some attention from the media but it really is going over the top - even here in Australia we hear about every movement this bloke has made.

Top
#318438 - Fri Aug 25 2006 02:13 PM Re: Arrest in Jon Benet Ramsey Case
jarsma63 Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Sat Jun 24 2006
Posts: 2017
Loc: Michigan USA  
This society loves tabloid TV-and thats exactly what this is. Young people are killed every day-this one is no more important than the others-but the media has run with it. Personally, I think this clown is just looking for 15 minutes of fame. He's just plain sick.
_________________________
"And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love (1 Cor 13:13).

Top
#318439 - Fri Aug 25 2006 03:15 PM Re: Arrest in Jon Benet Ramsey Case
ladymacb29 Offline
Moderator

Registered: Wed Mar 15 2000
Posts: 16214
Loc: The Delta Quadrant
Quote:

Why has this little girl's demise [ sad as it may be] be reported on endlessly, and the details reiterated until we don't CARE who did it anymore?




Part of it (at the time at least) was the question of whether or not her being paraded in front of everyone dressed like an 18 year old with more makeup than I've ever worn in my life had anything to do with her demise.
_________________________
"Without the darkness, how would we see the light?" ~ Tuvok

Editor for Television Category

Top
#318440 - Fri Aug 25 2006 03:28 PM Re: Arrest in Jon Benet Ramsey Case
Taesma Offline
Prolific

Registered: Fri Jun 20 2003
Posts: 1179
Loc: Bay Area California USA      
And also, I think, the perception of how badly the police bungled the investigation. The feeling that if the job had been done properly in the first place, there would not be this long drawn out case that may never be solved.

I do find it somewhat disturbing that someone would say they don't care who did it or that it isn't important any longer. I agree that there is total media over-saturation, but I would care if it was a 100 year old murder, let alone a ten year old one. Especially of a child. One of the reasons there are so many unsolved cases out there is that people (other than family) cease to care.

Or maybe it's just me and my own personal experiences with this sort of thing.
_________________________
"A bookstore is one of the only pieces of evidence we have that people are still thinking." ~ Jerry Seinfeld

Top
#318441 - Fri Aug 25 2006 05:54 PM Re: Arrest in Jon Benet Ramsey Case
chelseabelle Offline
Star Poster

Registered: Thu Oct 07 1999
Posts: 10282
Loc: New York USA
I have no problem with the media giving attention to the murder of JonBenet Ramsey, although there is really nothing new to add to the information gathered over the past ten years. At this point they are just rehashing the same old facts and displaying the old, all too familiar, videos and photos. This was always a high profile case, with intriguing aspects, and many people are still interested in finding out who did kill this child.

My problem is specifically with the amount of airtime and talk time being given to John Karr. Did we really need to know exactly what he ate and drank and how many times he went to the bathroom on his flight from Thailand? Or need to listen to discussions on whether he should have been in Business Class seats and provided with alcoholic beverages? And was the arrival of his plane in L.A. really "breaking news", or the fact that he was given a bologna sandwich in the L.A. jail of concern to anyone? His trip from L.A. to Colorado also was covered as "breaking news". And now his former high school classmates, former landlords, and former co-workers are coming out of the woodwork to throw in their two cents and grab some airtime and 3 minutes of fame. Not to mention Karr's father and half brother who have already hired a lawyer to represent the family in any book or movie deals that might pop up, and are already giving interviews.

All of this for man who hasn't yet been indicted for a crime--and a particularly distasteful crime at that.

When they turn suspected child molesters and suspected child murderers into media celebrities, to fill dead airtime and boost ratings on slow news days, the executives at cable news networks should be hanging their heads in shame. Simply by the amount of attention being paid, they are giving this man prominence he does not merit.

If John Karr ever longed for recognition, fame, or a public association with JonBenet Ramsey, the media have fulfilled his expectations beyond his wildest dreams.

The murder of a child in her own home is worthy of interest. Finding the killer and bringing him/her to justice is of interest. But the minute details of the killer's life, past or present, and even the killer's motive, are really of very little interest. They are all irrelevant and beside the point. There is no satisfactory explanation, or defense, for why one would molest or kill a child. The less media attention we give to the people who actually perpetrate such crimes the better. They do not deserve to be treated as celebrities, with the media dancing at their feet.
_________________________
Still Crazy After All These Years

Top
#318442 - Fri Aug 25 2006 06:41 PM Re: Arrest in Jon Benet Ramsey Case
IndieQueen Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Tue Apr 17 2001
Posts: 7306
Loc: Pittsburgh
Pennsylvania USA
What I find particularly distasteful is the fact that Karr's family has now secured representation for potential movie and book deals. That, to me is disgusting. Of course, if he is just a crime groupie who confessed falsely, his family won't need to worry about books and movies.

I also think you have a good point about the amount of media attention given to Karr. It really is disgusting that somebody who is suspected of killing a child is given this much attention. Honestly, the less attention he is granted the better.
_________________________
[color:"purple"] "One of the best features of Forums is that they allow people to parade their monumental stupidity, their hang-ups, their little prejudices in public."
[/color]

Top
#318443 - Fri Aug 25 2006 09:31 PM Re: Arrest in Jon Benet Ramsey Case
Catamount Offline
Forum Adept

Registered: Sun Jul 31 2005
Posts: 113
Loc: Coquitlam BC Canada     
Hear! Hear! I second that! I don't think we're doing everything wonderfully well in Canada, but on this particular topic I think we have made some gains, mainly through public pressure on the media. Maybe that's what it will take, gazillions of letters to the editor and cancelling subscriptions. Keep it up!
_________________________
I'm in good shape. Round is a perfect shape!

Top
#318444 - Sun Aug 27 2006 03:45 AM Re: Arrest in Jon Benet Ramsey Case
Gatsby722 Offline
Pure Diamond

Registered: Fri May 18 2001
Posts: 123698
Loc: Canton
Ohio USA    
Y'know ~ it's been said before and it will be said again: it's a world gone mad. Totally and miserably and outrageously nuts. All comments are correct that I'm reading here, in my opinion (I have a little problem with any "'he confessed, let's fry him' and wrap this case up" notions but that is a natural reaction AND one I initially had as well because we want such awful scenarios to close up justly and quite tightly; this situation is more baffling/muddy/somewhat disturbing now than it was before, though!). My knee-jerk is to blame the media, and my knee jerks well that way (usually). The media is just painfully driven to take an often grisly story and make it worse. Just for fun? Well, no, profit has more to do with it of course. But I always catch myself on that because there is no media power without an audience to it. I'm guilty of watching some of these news bytes and that makes me no better than anybody else and I am ashamed to admit that. I'd be more ashamed to lie about it, though. Saturday, for example, I saw on more than one cable TV show the following: what Karr had on his tray (presented in a rather impressive menu format, for Heaven's sake) to eat on his flight back to the states. Soon after that there was a simply groundbreaking interview with a passenger who was somewhere on the plane with him. Not long after that we get to see a picture of his sports car which he [sickeningly and disturbingly] referred to as his "chick magnet". It made me feel embarrassed for both the "me and we" that I looked at this junk. Clearly it wasn't "news" any more than a close-up photograph of road kill is.
Soon after that, then, was another rivetingly in-depth interview with the sister of Scott Peterson. Who is publicizing her new book about the fiend. And who is doing it to get "the truth" out there to be read. Which means somebody will dash out and buy it. Blech .
When will they (and we) get it? There is one definitive truth. That's it. Events unfold in one A=B=C path. Not 10 or more. The latter part is all about our "opinion" as to what the truth is or what we want the truth to be or what combination of either makes us happy for a minute or two. Somewhere as we cheapen it, whatever really IS the truth becomes a cliche or, worse, forgotten about. All that so many care about to consider is what is titillating, juicy or entertaining in general to gawk at.

I'll shut up now...
_________________________
"The best teacher is not the one who knows most but the one who is most capable of reducing knowledge to that simple compound of the obvious and wonderful." ... H. L. Mencken


Top
#318445 - Sun Aug 27 2006 01:39 PM Re: Arrest in Jon Benet Ramsey Case
jarsma63 Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Sat Jun 24 2006
Posts: 2017
Loc: Michigan USA  
Well said,Gastby. Like I said earlier this is a Tabloid TV society and all these "news programs"-Inside Edition, etc. just sensationalize this type of behavior. Of course there is a book deal and a movie deal. The glorified 9/11 with a movie, too didn't they?
Until, soiciety decides they have had enough of this smut, it will live and thrive. You rarely ever see the good people do-just the negative spin. Nobody likes a good guy--let's be fascinated by the villians. And copy them. And get our ten minutes of fame.
Makes me want to puke.

Enough of my rant........
_________________________
"And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love (1 Cor 13:13).

Top
#318446 - Mon Aug 28 2006 01:48 PM Re: Arrest in Jon Benet Ramsey Case
cinnam0n Offline
Moderator

Registered: Tue Nov 02 2004
Posts: 6750
Loc: Pennsylvania USA
Karr's 15 minutes of fame are about up...

The DNA doesn't match and he won't be charged.

Top
#318447 - Mon Aug 28 2006 02:06 PM Re: Arrest in Jon Benet Ramsey Case
ktstew Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Tue Jan 18 2005
Posts: 8717
Loc: Arkansas USA

Can't they at least detain him somewhere just for wearing eyeliner into the courtroom - looking so sick and spooky?
_________________________
A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is just putting on its shoes - Mark Twain

Top
#318448 - Mon Aug 28 2006 02:45 PM Re: Arrest in Jon Benet Ramsey Case
cinnam0n Offline
Moderator

Registered: Tue Nov 02 2004
Posts: 6750
Loc: Pennsylvania USA
Really - he is the creepiest looking guy I've seen in a long time. Well, didn't he skip bail in California several years ago after being indicted on a charge of child pornography? Surely they can hold him for something!

Top
#318449 - Mon Aug 28 2006 04:14 PM Re: Arrest in Jon Benet Ramsey Case
jarsma63 Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Sat Jun 24 2006
Posts: 2017
Loc: Michigan USA  
Just lock him(?) up--he truly is a menace to society. I don't want him around any small children. Idiots like him just polarize my thinking that this world is a mess. Inside Edition got plenty of run, didn't they. Bet you they don't run much of a story on this tonight. They got more sleaze to expose. This still makes me sick.
_________________________
"And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love (1 Cor 13:13).

Top
#318450 - Mon Aug 28 2006 04:45 PM Re: Arrest in Jon Benet Ramsey Case
Gatsby722 Offline
Pure Diamond

Registered: Fri May 18 2001
Posts: 123698
Loc: Canton
Ohio USA    
If nothing else they should detain the weasel for all costs incurred during the course of this little "episode" he enjoyed. Plane fare, food, all of it . If he can't pay (and I suspect he can't), lock him up and keep adding to the bill until he can pay.
_________________________
"The best teacher is not the one who knows most but the one who is most capable of reducing knowledge to that simple compound of the obvious and wonderful." ... H. L. Mencken


Top
#318451 - Mon Aug 28 2006 05:42 PM Re: Arrest in Jon Benet Ramsey Case
ktstew Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Tue Jan 18 2005
Posts: 8717
Loc: Arkansas USA
Yes, if they had allowed the original Thai [is that the right country?] DNA samples to be admitted as evidence over here, it would have saved many thousands of taxpayer dollars.
_________________________
A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is just putting on its shoes - Mark Twain

Top
#318452 - Mon Aug 28 2006 06:36 PM Re: Arrest in Jon Benet Ramsey Case
chelseabelle Offline
Star Poster

Registered: Thu Oct 07 1999
Posts: 10282
Loc: New York USA
They considered the DNA samples taken in Thailand to be contaminated.

But they did drag this man back here from Thailand without any concrete evidence against him. He didn't ask to come back here, and he certainly wasn't seeking media attention before his arrest. Why should he be held responsible for any costs to the taxpayer?

In dropping the charges, the Boulder D.A. also spelled out their reasons for suspecting him as JonBenet's murderer

web page

Certainly the man's fantasies about young girls, particularly his obsession with the murder of such children, is deeply disturbing. But fantasies and obsessions do not make one a criminal. With all the dirt they dug up on him, they have not uncovered any evidence that he ever abused any child.

Meanwhile, they have put his family (including his own children), through a terrible public ordeal because of the media frenzy this arrest triggered off.

It really seems as though the Boulder D.A.'s office continues to botch the JonBenet Ramsey case.

I am glad that it is now unlikely that any school will now hire Karr to teach children. He is going to be extradited to California to face charges on 5 counts of possessing child pornography--which are misdemeanor offenses.

And Mr Karr had been writing a book on the murder of JonBenet Ramsey. The D.A. will return the 150 page manuscript to him. I doubt he will have success peddling it to publishers.
_________________________
Still Crazy After All These Years

Top
#318453 - Mon Aug 28 2006 09:01 PM Re: Arrest in Jon Benet Ramsey Case
ktstew Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Tue Jan 18 2005
Posts: 8717
Loc: Arkansas USA
I wouldn't be sure about that. All I have to do is note the array of slimy half truths in those colourful tabloids at the check out stand. Apparently there is a market for the very worst rubbish, and somebody will find a way to publish it. [ as I understand it the 'crime novel for profit' restrictions only apply to those who have been convicted.]
Probably the only good that will come of all this is: his face is now familiar from San Diego to deepest Africa, and the teaching career is history. Perhaps this media frenzy inadventently saved the life and dignity of at least one future victim - probably more. Maybe it was worth it, after all.


Edited by ktstew (Mon Aug 28 2006 09:01 PM)
_________________________
A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is just putting on its shoes - Mark Twain

Top
#318454 - Tue Aug 29 2006 03:41 AM Re: Arrest in Jon Benet Ramsey Case
Gatsby722 Offline
Pure Diamond

Registered: Fri May 18 2001
Posts: 123698
Loc: Canton
Ohio USA    
Yes, the Thai government made a mess of things. Yes, the Boulder police made a mess of things 10 years ago. I'll agree with that. But this latest fiasco was, bottom line, the "brain" child of Mr. Karr. We can all agree that there were a few fiddles out of tune in this particular orchestra. Typically the fiddlers aren't held responsible at the end of the show, however. The conductor is. Given that, I still say that Karr should, if nothing else, foot the bill for this nonsense.
_________________________
"The best teacher is not the one who knows most but the one who is most capable of reducing knowledge to that simple compound of the obvious and wonderful." ... H. L. Mencken


Top
#318455 - Tue Aug 29 2006 05:11 AM Re: Arrest in Jon Benet Ramsey Case
ren33 Offline
Moderator

Registered: Thu Sep 30 1999
Posts: 12593
Loc: Kowloon Tong  Hong Kong      
Will he not now get out of it by saying "When I said I was there , I meant I was in the area. When I said it was an accident, I read all the details and thats what I surmised?"
Clever person. Presumably he WILL make money out of the whole ghoulish horror. Then he can continue his sex change surgery.
_________________________
Wandering aimlessly through FT since 1999.

Top
#318456 - Tue Aug 29 2006 10:24 AM Re: Arrest in Jon Benet Ramsey Case
Bruyere Offline
Star Poster

Registered: Sat Feb 10 2001
Posts: 18899
Loc: California USA
I think that catching someone who has purportedly committed a crime, getting him charged correctly and prosecuted must be much more complicated than we could possibly imagine.

This transcription makes it clearer how things occured and frankly, it makes more sense now.
If they ignored the guy as being crazy, they would have been ignoring their duty. However, they had to get him to submit to the tests without alerting him to the possibility of them doing so.
I think everyone did their job, including the professor who alerted the authorities when the communication had grown so bizarre. He clearly felt that even if the guy wasn't guilty of the murder he was obsessed about, the guy might be seriously endangering other children.

I think if we put ourselves in the place of the people trying to sort out this mess, we might have been someone who alerted authorities when red flags went off.
With the media coverage of this 'event' however, it was probably impossible to do anything discreetly.

If you had serious concerns about the sanity of someone who was teaching children in a position of confidence, wouldn't you report them? It's not even a choice any longer for people in education in CA, it's the law. If you suspect child abuse, you must report it.

Even if the guy wasn't the perpetrator, he needs to be taken out of circulation so that he can't find a way back in to working with children.
_________________________
I was born under a wandering star.

Top
#318457 - Tue Aug 29 2006 01:09 PM Re: Arrest in Jon Benet Ramsey Case
chelseabelle Offline
Star Poster

Registered: Thu Oct 07 1999
Posts: 10282
Loc: New York USA
Quote:

I think that catching someone who has purportedly committed a crime, getting him charged correctly and prosecuted must be much more complicated than we could possibly imagine.




I don't know if it's all that complicated, but there are rules of law that must be followed.

For one thing, you need evidence linking the suspect to the crime , and you need enough evidence to secure an indictment and possibly convince a jury of guilt in a trial.

Is that so complicated?

The evidence is what was lacking in this case.

The Boulder D.A. took a big gamble in having Karr brought back to the U.S. by hoping that the evidence would materialize after they had him in custody. This is the arrest first, get your evidence later approach, and it backfired, bigtime.

Karr wasn't the first person to confess to this crime, and he likely won't be the last. A confession can never be used as the only evidence linking a person to a crime, without some objective information to support the details of the confession. The Boulder D.A. really had nothing beyond Mr Karr's apparently fabricated "confession".

Like it or not, we cannot arrest people simply on the basis of their thoughts or fantasies. Crimes pertain only to actions. If Karr has never actually abused a child he is not guilty of child abuse, period. It doesn't matter what he was thinking, he has not broken any laws if he does not act in a criminal way. The D.A. cannot arrest him to hypothetically save a child from potential harm. You have to wait until the crime is actually committed, or in progress. That is the law.
Under the law, Mr Karr is an innocent man. He may have been guilty of possessing child pornography on his computer several years ago, but that charge has not yet been resolved. Other than failing to appear in court on that charge, Mr Karr has not seemingly broken any other laws. You cannot prosecute him for his fantasies, and you cannot legally regard him as a child abuser on the basis of those fantasies.

Mr Karr is not responsible for the fiasco that just occurred. He confessed to a crime, anonymously, in e-mail communications with a professor writing a book on the Ramsey case. He wanted his true identity kept secret. He was not ostensibly looking for public notoriety. He didn't seek this media attention. You can't blame him for the D.A.'s questionable judgement in trying to secure an arrest without sufficient evidence, or the media circus that followed.

Mr Karr has emerged from all of this as a creepy man, but not a criminal. If convicted on the possession of child pornography charges, he could be required to register as a sex offender under California law, but that remains to be seen.

The day we arrest people for their fantasies, rather than their acts, we will have kissed our justice system goodbye. No one should ever be arrested without some evidence directly linking them to a crime. Even the creeps of this world deserve the protection of law.
_________________________
Still Crazy After All These Years

Top
#318458 - Tue Aug 29 2006 02:16 PM Re: Arrest in Jon Benet Ramsey Case
Bruyere Offline
Star Poster

Registered: Sat Feb 10 2001
Posts: 18899
Loc: California USA
I'm afraid that I interpreted this as someone who did his duty in the way that I would by reporting the disturbing contents of communication. (the professor of journalism) I'm speaking about the motivations behind following up on what Karr stated in writing as well as telephone conversations about students of Karr's who were under his care.


It would seem to me that not only did the professor do the right thing by reporting this, but that in California and I believe Colorado, we are legally 'mandated reporters' if we are in a position to care for children's welfare.

As to the whole investigation of the Ramsey case, to my mind that is just another manifestation of his mental illness but, the professor did the right thing by reporting this when in his opinion, Karr was reporting things that went beyond the obsession with the case and might have helped find the perpatrator, also, if I had any doubts about the man perpetrating crimes on children while writing to me, I would have been a 'mandated reporter' as an educator to report this.
http://www.capcsac.org/childabuse/laws.html

Whether it led to Karr's actual involvement in the high profile case or not, the statements that he made about using children would have been enough for me to try to alert some authority. In fact, in California, I would have been legally mandated to do so.

In simple terms, I'm not accusing him because he 'looks creepy', I'm saying that the person who did alert the authorities was entirely justified in doing so. Especially if he knew the person was working with children.
The California authorities in Sonoma County had alerted the Colorado authorities long ago when he was questioned because of the things he described about the Ramsey case. If they though this warranted checking out back then, then it must have been obvious.
_________________________
I was born under a wandering star.

Top
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >

Moderator:  ladymacb29, sue943