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#330703 - Fri Nov 10 2006 09:15 AM Remembrance Day
lady1 Offline
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Registered: Wed Jun 07 2006
Posts: 20697
Loc: Gauteng South Africa          
Tommorow is November 11th - Remembrance Day, Armistice Day or Poppy Day.
Common British, Canadian, South African and ANZAC traditions include two minutes of silence at the eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month because that was the time (in Britain and France) when the armistice became effective. The two minutes recall World War I and World War II.
May we all remember and may there be Peace on Earth everywhere.
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#330704 - Fri Nov 10 2006 10:29 AM Re: Remembrance Day
sue943 Offline
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Registered: Sun Dec 19 1999
Posts: 38005
Loc: Jersey
Channel Islands    
Indeed.

It is very strange when you are in a shop and the silence begins, I always find it very emotional, the two minutes seems to last forever.
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#330705 - Fri Nov 10 2006 01:10 PM Re: Remembrance Day
toadette Offline
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Registered: Fri Oct 01 2004
Posts: 265
Loc: ON
A Canadian singer named Terry Kelly has written a song called "A Pittance of Time" about the two minutes of silence. It was sent to me in an email (by two different people). Since I don't know how to insert it here, I've sent it to you Sue.

Toadette

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#330706 - Fri Nov 10 2006 05:40 PM Re: Remembrance Day
ElfTwinkle Offline
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Registered: Wed Jul 10 2002
Posts: 14929
Loc: Crazy Canuck   
I first heard the lyrics and viewed clips of the video "Two Minutes of Silence - A Pittance of Time" at last year's Remembrance Day service held at the school my children attend --- Today's Remembrance Day assembly (held today at 11am since tomorrow is Saturday/no school) at their school also included viewing a clip from the video entitled "Two Minutes of Silence - A Pittance of Time".

"Two Minutes of Silence - A Pittance of Time" combines music and theatre in an emotional production that looks at the impacts and sacrifices of war. The inspirational songs and dramatic monologues evoke memories tinged with both sadness and joy that ultimately underscore the need for hope and faith in the goodness of humankind.


The History Of The Video, A Pittance In Time

On November 11, 1999 Terry Kelly was in a Shoppers Drug Mart store in Dartmouth, Nova Scotia. At 10:55 AM an announcement came over the store's PA asking customers who would still be on the premises at 11:00 AM to give two minutes of silence in respect to the veterans who have sacrificed so much for us.

Terry was impressed with the store's leadership role in adopting the Legion's "two minutes of silence" initiative. He felt that the store's contribution of educating the public to the importance of remembering was commendable.

When eleven o'clock arrived on that day, an announcement was again made asking for the "two minutes of silence" to commence. All customers, with the exception of a man who was accompanied by his young child, showed their respect.

Terry's anger towards the father for trying to engage the store's clerk in conversation and for setting a bad example for his child was later channeled into a beautiful piece of work called, "A Pittance of Time".

The clip shown at the assembly at school showed the portion of the video that had the song, A Pittance In Time playing in the background of the video.


A Pittance Of Time --- lyrics

Written by Terry Kelly © Jefter Publishing - SOCAN

They fought and some died for their homeland.
They fought and some died, now it's our land.
Look at his little child; there's no fear in her eyes.
Could he not show respect for other dads who have died?

Take two minutes, would you mind?
It's a pittance of time,
For the boys and the girls who went over.
In peace may they rest, may we never
forget why they died.
It's a pittance of time.

God forgive me for wanting to strike him.
Give me strength so as not to be like him.
My heart pounds in my breast, fingers pressed to my lips,
My throat wants to bawl out, my tongue barely resists.

But two minutes I will bide.
It's a pittance of time,
For the boys and the girls who went over.
In peace may they rest.
May we never forget why they died.
It's a pittance of time.

Read the letters and poems of the heroes at home.
They have casualties, battles, and fears of their own.
There's a price to be paid if you go, if you stay.
Freedom's fought for and won in numerous ways.

Take two minutes, would you mind?
It's a pittance of time,
For the boys and the girls all over.
May we never forget, our young become vets.
At the end of the line,
It's a pittance of time.

It takes courage to fight in your own war.
It takes courage to fight someone else's war.
Our peacekeepers tell of their own living hell.
They bring hope to foreign lands that hate mongers can't kill.

Take two minutes, would you mind?
It's a pittance of time,
For the boys and the girls who go over.
In peacetime our best still don battle dress
And lay their lives on the line.
It's a pittance of time

In peace may they rest,
Lest we forget why they died.
Take a pittance of time.


A Pittance Of Time: credit1 credit2


Edited by ElfTwinkle (Fri Nov 10 2006 05:45 PM)

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#330707 - Fri Nov 10 2006 06:28 PM Re: Remembrance Day
agony Offline

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Registered: Sat Mar 29 2003
Posts: 16595
Loc: Western Canada
Most shops in our little town are closed until noon, on Nov 11th, so you aren't likely to be shoppping when the two minutes happen. I don't know how common this is across the country - in Alberta Nov 11th is a statuatory holiday, but only when it falls on a weekday. I live right next to a large miltary training area, and much of our population is military or ex military. Remembrance Day is a very big deal here, especially now, in wartime.

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#330708 - Fri Nov 10 2006 07:10 PM Re: Remembrance Day
Catamount Offline
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Registered: Sun Jul 31 2005
Posts: 113
Loc: Coquitlam BC Canada     
This year Remembrance Day seems to be more a propaganda opportunity for our PM than genuine remembrance - and learning from the past! At the Nuremberg Trial the Nazis were convicted for 1. "conspiracy to wage aggressive war"; 2. "waging aggressive war or crimes against peace"; 3. "war crimes" and 4. "crimes against humanity". Today 1 and 2 have become part of foreign policy of powerful countries, and 3 and 4 only apply to the other side. Shame!
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#330709 - Fri Nov 10 2006 10:11 PM Re: Remembrance Day
Copago Offline
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Registered: Tue May 15 2001
Posts: 14384
Loc: Australia
Thanks for posting that story, Elf.

Our main war rememberance day here is in April but we do still officially have a minutes silence at eleven and most cenotaphs would have a small service. COuldn't go to any but just watched the bit on the TV. It gets me every year.

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#330710 - Sat Nov 11 2006 03:35 AM Re: Remembrance Day
JaneMarple Offline
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Registered: Fri Jan 30 2004
Posts: 14486
Loc: North West of England
I always keep the two minute silence on Rememberance day. Also wear my poppy with pride. I always try to get a "floppy poppy" as opposed to the paper one, as I assosiate the poppy with my Uncle. He used to sell the poppies, to raise money, so am remembering him too.
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#330711 - Sat Nov 11 2006 11:46 AM Re: Remembrance Day
NamHari Offline
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Registered: Sat Nov 11 2006
Posts: 7
Loc: California
Veteran's Day here in the USA today, the 11th of the 11th. Having lived in Australia for 10 years I learned to value the Remembrance Day silence at 11 a.m. I've not heard of a silence being observed on Veteran's Day.

Would be nice to have a poppy to buy and wear, but that isn't a tradition observed here either. There is a parade though and I think if I hurry I can just make it.

Cheers

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#330712 - Sat Nov 11 2006 11:52 AM Re: Remembrance Day
ktstew Offline
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Registered: Tue Jan 18 2005
Posts: 8717
Loc: Arkansas USA
My particular veterans are never far from my thoughts, anyhow. At my house, every day is Remembrance Day on some level, even though it's unspoken.


Edited by ktstew (Sat Nov 11 2006 08:29 PM)
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#330713 - Sat Nov 11 2006 03:22 PM Re: Remembrance Day
lady1 Offline
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Registered: Wed Jun 07 2006
Posts: 20697
Loc: Gauteng South Africa          
Thanks for the words of the song ElfTwinkle. They are very moving.

They used to sell poppies here when I was a kid but have stopped doing so lately, rather sad because I can remember everyone wearing them on Remembrance Day.
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#330714 - Sun Nov 12 2006 01:00 AM Re: Remembrance Day
dg_dave Offline
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Registered: Sun Oct 05 2003
Posts: 24575
Loc: near Stafford, Virginia USA
I was watching CNBC yesterday and the NYSE had a 2 minute period of silence at 11am Friday, since the markets were closed today anyway. We need to remember our vets every day, no matter what country they are from. Those vets put their lives on the line to give us our freedoms that so many of us take for granted.
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#330715 - Sun Nov 12 2006 03:09 AM Re: Remembrance Day
lady1 Offline
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Registered: Wed Jun 07 2006
Posts: 20697
Loc: Gauteng South Africa          
Here Here dg dave!
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#330716 - Sun Nov 12 2006 08:24 AM Re: Remembrance Day
uiscebeatha Offline
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Registered: Wed Mar 01 2006
Posts: 216
Loc: Antrim Belfast Ireland     
'And the old men march by me, all bent stiff and sore
Proud old heroes of a forgotten war
And the young people ask 'What are they marching for?'
And I ask myself the same question'

So writes Eric Bogle in a song (Waltzing Matilda) that is well worth a listen. It is anti-war, as opposed to anti-soldier / anti-vet, and its theme is highly, highly sceptical of some of the causes of some of the wars and some types of commemoration. It echoes many songs by Bob Dylan and other that are, in my view, infinitely preferable and considerably more complex than the rather trite sentiment and smug self-confidence of the song above that is all about commemorating heroes bringing peace to foreign lands etc. Amazingly selective, more than vaguely jingoistic, hopelessly naive and certainly unconscious of the excesses of most occupying / invasion forces in most countries during most wars! This is dangerously simplistic and unquestioning - retrospective romancing!

That said, there is, of course, real reason to remember those individual men and woment who gave their lives in fighting for their country - whether or not the cause was just, unjust, imperialist, stupid etc. It was a case of 'Theirs not to reason why, theirs but to do or die.'

Wars of aggression, wars of imperialism, wars against peoples who had vastly inferior forces / weaponry / training etc. Africans, Native Americans and so on do not honour anyone!

I have stood in Salisbury Cathedral (and many other places) and looked at memorials and standards brought from battles. But for some reason at Salisbury that day I felt tearful and experienced a terrible moment of ennui in thinking about so many wars / battles in which honest human beings died (on both sides) for causes that history has shown to be neither honourable nor commendable. I am sure that many, many of them would consider along with Wilfred Owen that the whole thing was a 'jest' an 'old lie' - 'dulce et decorum est pro patria mori'.

Anyway, is the right of the man and child to observe or not observe the silence etc not what was allegedly fought for? I'm sure that many who died, given the chance to reflect on some of the dubious causes embarked upon and stupid crass leadership exhibited, would perhaps have questions themselves about what is being commemorated, how it is being commemorated and the motives of some who are doing the commemoratinG!

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#330717 - Mon Nov 13 2006 02:16 AM Re: Remembrance Day
lady1 Offline
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Registered: Wed Jun 07 2006
Posts: 20697
Loc: Gauteng South Africa          
uiscebeatha I never thought of it that way. You are correct in saying the old man and child had the right to observe or not observe the 2 minutes of silence - but - do they have the right to interrupt the others who are observing the silence and showing their respect for those who died?
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#330718 - Mon Nov 13 2006 04:22 AM Re: Remembrance Day
uiscebeatha Offline
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Registered: Wed Mar 01 2006
Posts: 216
Loc: Antrim Belfast Ireland     
I suppose, lady1, yes, they do have the right to disrupt if they are going about their business and looking for service in a shop or whatever. I agree with you insofar as good sense and good manners are another matter.

Good manners, consideration of others and respect for the customs of others should have dictated their waiting and then approaching people. Alas, good manners and a sense of dignity are not a legal requirement or even a modern priority. Sometimes I almost wish that they were!!

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#330719 - Mon Nov 13 2006 05:06 AM Re: Remembrance Day
damnsuicidalroos Offline
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Registered: Mon Feb 10 2003
Posts: 2167
Loc: Sydney
NSW Australia
Quote:

I suppose, lady1, yes, they do have the right to disrupt if they are going about their business and looking for service in a shop or whatever.


And in that single line is spelt out one of the problems that free societies face now and have no doubt faced for millenium. One persons right to disrupt others whilst not respecting the right of others not to be disrupted. Is a shop a public place or is it the private space of the shop-owner, to do with what the owner wants? Does a shop owner have the right to serve whomever they please in a manner that pleases them? Does a shopper in fact(in law?) have the right to disrupt the owner simply because they wish to ignore the owners wishes?

The man that the song Pittance In Time refers to was simply ignoring the wishes of the shop owner as far as I`m concerned and he, and his child, would certainly have been told to shop elsewhere there and then if it was my shop. I`m sure that there are shops that choose not to have the two minutes of silence that would welcome those that also don`t choose to do it.

In free societies I often think we are lucky to have the freedom of differing views. I would never force, for example, a Muslim to drink or eat during daylight hours during Ramadan and I would resist any efforts by Muslims to stop me eating or drinking, unless I was in his/her shop that is!
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