#335645 - Sun Dec 10 2006 08:07 PM
Re: Grotesque Translations
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Moderator
Registered: Thu Sep 30 1999
Posts: 12593
Loc: Kowloon Tong Hong Kong
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Good thinking!!
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Wandering aimlessly through FT since 1999.
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#335646 - Sun Dec 10 2006 08:10 PM
Re: Grotesque Translations
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Multiloquent
Registered: Tue Jun 13 2006
Posts: 2547
Loc: Tennessee USA
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Oh, that's great!  If you ever try using an online translator, those are the types of translations you get. As a Spanish teacher, it makes it really easy to tell if a student has tried to cheat on a written assignment. (And I always get to laugh at the things they come up with.) I wonder how the Queen would feel if she saw something like that?!
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"One language sets you in a corridor for life. Two languages open every door along the way." -Frank Smith
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#335650 - Mon Dec 11 2006 04:09 AM
Re: Grotesque Translations
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Administrator
Registered: Sun Dec 19 1999
Posts: 38005
Loc: Jersey Channel Islands
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Locally a whole batch of leaflets printed in Portuguese regarding drinking and driving had to be scrapped. Apparently when giving the value of the units it said "a half a pint of beer, a small glass of wine or a single tot of ghosts". On a more personal note, my house has a name as well as a number. The previous occupants saw this word in Portugal or somewhere and thought it looked good so they gave the name to this house. I get some VERY strange looks at times (we have a lot of Portuguese people here), they cannot understand why anyone would name their house "Young lad/boy". 
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#335652 - Mon Dec 11 2006 10:30 AM
Re: Grotesque Translations
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Moderator
Registered: Sun Apr 29 2001
Posts: 4095
Loc: Norwich England�UK���ï...
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Some months ago a machine translation from Italian told me that "a large crowd assisted at the execution". Fortunately, I remembered from my student days that in French assister à means to be present at - and drew the obvious sensible conclusion. 
Edited by bloomsby (Mon Dec 11 2006 10:31 AM)
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#335653 - Mon Dec 11 2006 11:00 AM
Re: Grotesque Translations
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Star Poster
Registered: Sat Feb 10 2001
Posts: 18899
Loc: California USA
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The problem with 'assister' in French to assisted in English was particularly bad for actor Gerard Depardieu who grew up in a rough home environment and ran away rather early. He had been hanging out with 'carnies' at the traveling shows and carnivals and seen a rape occur. As a kid, he wasn't really able to protest this or basically get beaten up no doubt and he related this incident in English to an interviewer. Gege's English isn't terribly good but he said assisted...which means he actually participated in English. He was boycotted by many organizations for years because of this. Assister is one way to say, to go to class in French, so if you translate it too literally, it sounds like you're helping the prof in English. Assistance is a little different. It's a classic faux ami though. A false friend.
I play on one of the translation sites quite often as it's amusing to take a passage, put it into a language then put it back into the original and see if it holds up. I have put passages through about ten languages.
As a translator though, I've seen many mistakes over the years...
Some of the best ones,
ghost cheese (instead of goat cheese!)
You can have your flowers delivered in their slime to your room. (this is a funny one because vase with the feminine article is slime or mud in the river or lake bottom, and le vase is the vase we'd use in English)
Children's menu, pastes instead of pasta.
I remember one that was funny in a company I was working in. The client's name was a name that sounded like wifeswapping...and the spellchecker offered that and someone accepted that without thinking...which meant that an enormous document had the word for wifeswapping throughout it. We're still wondering why the spellchecker had that in it!
French menus are notoriously difficult to translate into English as, English just can't come close to French for food and the French really go all out in their poetic descriptions, to the point of nausea sometimes...I mean, it's corny to read some of them written by writers who aren't talented... So you'll find some funny ones on the menus if you travel there. They were using this online translator for them while writing up the menus and it was clear to me!
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#335654 - Mon Dec 11 2006 08:04 PM
Re: Grotesque Translations
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Moderator
Registered: Sun Apr 29 2001
Posts: 4095
Loc: Norwich England�UK���ï...
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Quote:
If you ever try using an online translator, those are the types of translations you get.
Interestingly enough, the advocates of machine translation were warned nearly fifty years that this kind of problem would be insuperable without major advances in our knowledge of how syntax and semantics really function. There has been enromous progress in syntax and the key problem area is semantics. This is highly inconvenient as ultimately language is about conveying meaning. 
[Edited in order to add the last two sentences].
Edited by bloomsby (Mon Dec 11 2006 08:23 PM)
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#335655 - Mon Dec 11 2006 11:08 PM
Re: Grotesque Translations
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Star Poster
Registered: Sat Feb 10 2001
Posts: 18899
Loc: California USA
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I remember getting jobs from people who had tried to put their work through an online translation program...what a mess! Even they could see how bad it was!
When I was trained with machine assisted software, it was very sophisticated and quite useful in the hands of a competent translator. It did a fuzzy match, and several others, and you could fine tune it as you liked. If you were to translate a manual then put it into the database as a source, it would use that as a dictionary for further documents.
So if I wrote, 'insert part A into part B' twenty thousand times, the computer would either, wait for me to approve this phrase be translated, or, at my request, translate it automatically.
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#335656 - Tue Dec 12 2006 04:13 AM
Re: Grotesque Translations
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Enthusiast
Registered: Thu Dec 07 2006
Posts: 412
Loc: Kansas USA
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I do not know about computer translators but I am familiar with people translators. There is less room for error but it does have it's moments. I sit in on translated readings from tribal leaders. The language of the text is usually all but lost save for a few interpreters. It is our culture to hand down these stories by mouth and to copy them in or to a different language is considered wrong.
So, as the life of the language dims, the interpretations become harder and translations get more confusing.
I once heard a story from a young apprentice that reflected the travails of a small band of Sioux warriors that were led to victory by a large airplane in the sky even though their enemies were already dead. A closer look revealed that the Sioux were guided by a sky Spirit in the shape of a large white eagle. Their enemies were not dead though their camp was buried under heavy snow.
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#335657 - Tue Dec 12 2006 09:16 AM
Re: Grotesque Translations
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Moderator
Registered: Sun Apr 29 2001
Posts: 4095
Loc: Norwich England�UK���ï...
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If a machine translation needs to be checked, supervised or controlled by a human translator, then its usefulness is rather limited, though the machine may take some of the drudgery out of translating.
Of course, human beings can also make howlers, or may not really understand what is meant by translate, translation. In 2001, in Lübeck, I was surprised to read:
Good bourgeois cuisine
It's one possible word-for-word translation of:
gutbürgerliche Küche.
Of course, the English conveys nothing (beyond ineptitude). Somehow the translator (if that's the right word) had overlooked the supreme importance of conveying the meaning of the original, which in this case is really something like:
traditional German cuisine.
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#335658 - Tue Dec 12 2006 10:19 AM
Re: Grotesque Translations
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Star Poster
Registered: Sat Feb 10 2001
Posts: 18899
Loc: California USA
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The problem with machine assisted is that if you accept a translation without thinking, you'll have problems later. It is a bit like running an assembly line machine and making an error which has repercussions on the next station on the line!
YOu have a similar problem with Word's search and replace function when you write a long document and replace a term with another one. I once saw the computer replace the components of that word throughout an entire passage! I mean, if I put in, change orange to red, it would take not only the word 'orange' but any of its components, or, range, etc. then you'd see, redange, ored, or something along those lines! You had to have a professional doing it. If you had entire phrases, the machine would do a fuzzy match and beep you if it found a phrase that was 99 percent close to yours. This way, sentence order problems wouldn't be as bad, but I never really let it do that automatically because it always led to trouble.
I just watched a movie and the slang translations were so bad, I wondered what the person had been drinking while they typed it up! Honestly...the slang was basic French stuff, and the English sounded so unlikely it cannot have been a native speaker of English with any knowledge of French slang. There was one word for something that neither of us had ever heard of, and, it was the name of a tradesman in English. Probably came out of a dictionary like the one on the Word Wizard game here. In a contemporary film it sounded ridiculous. It was neither British nor American English either.
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#335659 - Tue Dec 12 2006 08:42 PM
Re: Grotesque Translations
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Moderator
Registered: Sun Apr 29 2001
Posts: 4095
Loc: Norwich England�UK���ï...
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I wonder what people will make of this text on Simon Bolivar. He's described, among other things, as: Quote:
commander of the American emancipation, fruit of the love between Juan Vicente of Bolivar y Ponte and Maria de la Concepcion Palacios y Blanco
A little later, he's also described as a sapling. However, this is as nothing by comparison with some of the grammatical errors:
Quote:
and he looked at icily, tiredly perhaps; to the ladies and gentlemen that went and came between the big curtains of silk, by the cabinets of mahogany or under the trees of the patio.
Also:
Quote:
One could not explain, exactly like it would happen in a novel, that they had given the boy in his hands for error or for his uncle's indifference. The sure, it is that, starting from that day began a new life, very solitary for the boy thanks to the natural state where he had been placed by his new teacher and friend.
Source: http://www.unet.edu.ve/~lsb/ebiograf.htm
Of course, I'm not sure whether this is in fact a translation or whether it's just poor Enlgish.
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#335660 - Wed Dec 13 2006 10:17 AM
Re: Grotesque Translations
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Forum Champion
Registered: Tue Jan 18 2005
Posts: 8717
Loc: Arkansas USA
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Years ago I bought my then five year old daughter a product known as "Echo - Mic." Sort of a battery free, cordless kareoke set up for toddlers. The instructions on the back of the box [which was produced in China] were without rival... "You take mighty fun ECHO MIC out of the box and sing correctly into it. Lots of fun for Mama, Dad and Lady Employee, too."
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#335661 - Wed Dec 13 2006 10:46 AM
Re: Grotesque Translations
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Star Poster
Registered: Sat Feb 10 2001
Posts: 18899
Loc: California USA
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Whenever you see the telltale, 'cabinets of mahogany' you know it's a translation.
The Absurd French quizzes that I wrote use this inherent difference because the possessive is so different. If you have, my uncle's wife's poodle's flea's dinner it's still reasonably readable! If you have le diner du puce du caniche de la femme de mon oncle it's a little heavier!
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#335662 - Fri Dec 15 2006 06:54 AM
Re: Grotesque Translations
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Champion Poster
Registered: Wed Jun 07 2006
Posts: 20697
Loc: Gauteng South Africa
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I have seen many incorrect translations on packaging from China - many keep me in stitches. When we lived in Greece, the menu in a resturant listed "Lamp chops". We still call them Lamp chops to this day.
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#335664 - Fri Jan 05 2007 01:38 PM
Re: Grotesque Translations
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Forum Adept
Registered: Fri Sep 22 2006
Posts: 106
Loc: Florida USA
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I went to a Spanish site for students, and they had a list of the top 10 phrases that are translated badly. Here are a few: Antes que te cases mira lo que haces. (Look before you leap.) Literal: Before you marry, look at what you do. Como el burro que tocó la flauta. (By pure luck.) Literal: As the burro played the flute. The rest are at http://www.studyspanish.com/topten_phrases.htm
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#335665 - Fri Jan 05 2007 02:01 PM
Re: Grotesque Translations
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Registered: Tue Sep 05 2006
Posts: 14562
Loc: Bucharest Romania
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Regarding translations (bad ones), the absolute abomination I've seen here in my neck of woods, was Nathaniel Hawthorne's "The Scarlet Letter" translated as "A Letter from Scarlet"  Another "top" one - somewhere in a book about Freddie Mercury's life, there was a phrase saying: "among the participants we had groups like U2, The Who and Spandau Ballet." And the Romanian translator came up with - "...we had U2 and The Who and Spandau - Ballet Group."
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#335666 - Fri Mar 09 2007 01:26 PM
Re: Grotesque Translations
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Prolific
Registered: Tue May 17 2005
Posts: 1138
Loc: Hull Yorkshire England UK
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I always loved this one:
Um eine unfrüchtbäre Käter zu haben
It's the German phrase for to have a hangover, but it literally translates to "In order to have an infertile male cat". Yay!
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