Why, when referring to our Sceptered Isle, do our American cousins, and most Europeans if it comes to it, call it England and not the UK? I'm sure it upsets the Scots, Welsh and Irish. Even though I was born in England, raised in England and live in England, my passport says I am a citizen of The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and I consider myself a Brit. So, come on folks, call us the UK.

As a child, I always thought that "Regno Unito" (United Kingdom), as it was officially called on TV, and "Inghilterra" (England), as most Italians said, were perfect synonyms.
Later I learned the difference, of course. Strangely, though, once in a while I still surprise myself saying "English" and "England" instead of "British" and "UK". Old habits are difficult to eradicate.
In the same way, many Europeans (including Britons) say "America" and "Americans" referring to the U.S.A. and to U.S. citizens. But America consists of many countries and populations...

Ciao :-)
Mirella

Actually, until about 1900 or even a little later it was very common in England itself to use "England" as the short name for the United Kingdom. Respectable history books used to refer, for example, to "English foreign policy around 1840" and so on.

Did Nelson say "Britain expects ..." or "The UK expects ..."? No, the order to the British fleet used a word with emotional resonance.

As for my passport, it has that clumsy and fussy legalistic formula. Unless my memory is playing tricks on me, "United Kingdom" was rarely used till it became the internet extension code.

And just to make it more confusing, the correct term for describing the nationality of a citizen of 'The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland' is British!
Although born in England, I've always put British when filling in forms, applications, immigration documents, etc, which I'm sure confuses many officials!

I'd also like the point out that, if you call the country Britain, then you are trying to cut the Northern Irish and the Manx out of it completely! I'm sure they're not happy with that. Mind you, the Manx are out on a limb of their own (I think it might be one of three legs), so...

So....those things being said, maybe you could enlighten me on a question I have always wondered about. Simply put -whom do I address as 'English' and what other persons are considered Brits? Is 'Brit' a familiar, friendly term [ as it's always been considered in my own family] or something merely tolerated by the English ?

I think a lot of people consider themselved English, but everyone here considers themselves a Brit (and most are proud of it!). If, like me, you're a Welshman living in England, it's far better to use the umbrella term "Brit", or "Briton" - personally, I think the two latter choices sound a lot less pretencious! Brit is friendlier, anyway, it makes us sound less stuffed-shirt.

My time in the UK besides holidays later in life: I lived in Scotland for a year, and, whereas most of the Scots I know are cool with the term "British" for citizenship purposes of course, I'm almost dead certain many of them would prefer being Scots.
So if they were traveling outside of the country, they'd be British nationals, but, most of the friends I know would say "I'm from Scotland' rather than say, 'I'm British'. Actually two of them would probably say they were from Glasgow!

In much the same way, I've never stopped defining myself as Californian and I lived twenty-five years away from California. Not that I'm ashamed to be 'American' but, I just felt my heart was in California all those years. Now that I'm back, I'm a little disoriented but, happy to be here. I'm told I lost my accent, but it normally takes me about five minutes to get an accent from the people around me. I do remember when I got one of my American degrees, they listed me as coming from Pennsylvania as I had residency there for five years, so, it felt very weird to be from PA! My son was born there and proclaims it to his buddies but, all in all, I never really thought of being from Philly.

As I lived in France for a long time (13 years or so) during those years away, I can tell you that in French, the term 'anglais' is used more often than 'britannique'. Plus, the term UK is Royaume-uni and you can't make an adjective of that one very easily. Asking, 'vous etes du royaume-uni?' in French sounds really weird! So for official purposes like looking up your 44 in the phone book, you'd look under R for Royaume-Uni, not Angleterre. The expat community in France get used to it. I think when we'd work together or see each other, we'd probably use the term 'Brit' and they'd probably call me a 'Yank' affectionately. I have no problem with that unless it's in the US South where I also lived. So I've noted that in France, it's very rare to hear anyone say anything but 'anglais' for British, or they might say, 'ecossais' for a Scot.


I noticed in Italian these days, lots of writers will say statiunesi for US citizens as an adjective.

Oh, one other usage that's cropping up in French amongst silly trendy people who want to sound cool is to drop English words into a conversation like STates. There are some hilarious comedy routines about people trying to show off by using English. LIke a manager coming back from the States and learning all sorts of silly techniques like forcing French employees to smile.


I think when I traveled that the safest bet if you wanted to know where a person with a British sounding accent was from would be, 'Are you from the UK?' because, it was the safest guess. I used to get asked if I was 'anglaise' quite often when I worked in France because, there aren't many Americans working there, and, well, I speak a pretty neutral version of English when I live there. I never really took offense to this, but I did take it when I was turned down for jobs because I spoke 'American' yet I found their standards a bit exacting for the jobs offered.


Another by the way, unfortunately, when the French press talk about Hooligans, they almost always ascribe their behavior to 'les anglais' or English. Not to say that we don't have our own in France, as we do! I've seen things that would curl people's teeth from the OM fans, but, for the most part, they pronounce is Hoo Lee GANS and then go on about the English.

Flynn, can you identify regional U.S. or other American accents? I can tell the difference between a Georgia or a North Carolina accent; I can identify whether someone is a native Spanish speaker from Mexico or Puerto Rico, but I don't expect the British, the French, or the Italians to be able to do this. They are not exposed to these accents as frequently as I am.

When living in Italy, I saw many Canadians bridle when someone asked them what part of the U.S. they were from. Many Canadians have distinctive accents -- and I'm not referring to the French Canadians -- but Europeans did not recognize this. And why should they have?

By the way, Canadians will often tell you, very firmly, that while they are not from the States, they are certainly Americans.

Citizens of 'The United States of America' calling themselves Americans seems pefectly reasonable, but I can't see why Canadians should do so - any more than Mexicans, Argentinians, or Peruvians!
It's rather like British, French, Germans or any other person from Europe, describing themselves as Europeans instead of by their country of origin.

Canadians are North Americans, just as Brazilians and Argentinians (and Bolivians and Peruvians, etc.) are South Americans. These people can resent the claim that the only "Americans" are the citizens of the United States of America. And they are right to do so.

Overseas, I found that when I met an English-speaker who might, on the basis of accent, have been Canadian, it was a good idea to ask "And what part of North America are you from?" The response was always gracious, which was not the case when Canadians were asked, "And what state are you from?"

I'd like to return to the point made earlier about emotional resonance.

One doesn't have to go back to Nelson and "England expects ..." to find England used effectively and unpedantically as an unofficial 'short form' for the Great Britain or the UK.

On 2 Spetember 1939 some MPs feared that Neville Chamberlain was looking for an excuse to avoid Britain's pledge to Poland. The Conservative MP, Leo Amery, called across the House of Commons to the Labour Deputy leader, Athur Greenwood, "Go on, Greenwood! Speak for England!"

I don't think anyone has seriously suggested that Amery was insulting Scotland or N. Ireland or Wales. He was implying that Chamberlain couldn't be relied on to speak for the country. He wanted to make his point simply and effectively. One can't do that by calling out 'Speak for Britain or Great Britain or - worse still - the U.K. or United Kingdom.'

Some years ago the journalist Neal Ascherson suggested humorously that perhaps we ought to invent the short name Ukania, though he added that it would get confused with the Ukraine.