#361162 - Tue May 08 2007 06:21 AM
Northern Ireland
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Moderator
Registered: Thu Sep 30 1999
Posts: 12593
Loc: Kowloon Tong Hong Kong
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AT last, it seems there is a real peace agreement. I have very little time for Tony Blair, but he does seem to have done a lot towards this. BBC report
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Wandering aimlessly through FT since 1999.
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#361164 - Tue May 08 2007 04:38 PM
Re: Northern Ireland
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Moderator
Registered: Tue May 15 2001
Posts: 14384
Loc: Australia
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Uiscebeatha, how is this being treated by the everyday man on the street? Will there still be tensions or is everyone a big happy family now?
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#361165 - Wed May 09 2007 01:59 AM
Re: Northern Ireland
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Enthusiast
Registered: Wed Mar 01 2006
Posts: 216
Loc: Antrim Belfast Ireland
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Hi Copago and thanks for the enquiry.
Initial reactions to the power sharing executive are, almost exclusively, very positive. There are small numbers at the extremes in both camps who are opposed to any change at all (obviously for totally different reasons). At this stage, whilst such groups remain highly dangerous, they are so numerically small as to be relatively insignificant.
The acid test will be how the politicians deal with the day to day issues. There are centuries of bigotry to be overcome, geographical and psychological divsions to be tackled and a large measure of distrust on both sides.
Having said all that, most people here seem to have the same reaction of surprise and cautious optimism as those who have observed our situation from outside. Our greatest hope is probably in our young people who are not old enough to have been scarred by what has gone on for the past 30 years. Actually, to say 30 years is misleading - for about 800 years on the island as a whole and since the inception of the Northern Ireland state in the 1920s.
So, it looks good. Definitely not one big, happy family but maybe we've begun to talk to one another rather than sulking in the corner or living life as in a silent movie!
In yesterday's post I forgot to mention the very, very significant contribution of President Bill Clinton to the process, another man whose basic decency and compassion for Ireland, helped shape events. He kept both sides on board but was particularly effective in influencing Irish Republicans and nationalists.
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#361166 - Thu May 10 2007 06:28 PM
Re: Northern Ireland
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Multiloquent
Registered: Mon Sep 25 2006
Posts: 2276
Loc: Deception Bay QLD�Australiaï...
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There will always be some extremists in political groups in any country. I hope they remain in the background and the majority will be able to work and live together peacefully for the wellbeing of all the people.
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If you see someone without a smile, give him yours.
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#361167 - Fri May 11 2007 10:52 PM
Re: Northern Ireland
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Forum Adept
Registered: Fri May 11 2007
Posts: 128
Loc: Hawaii USA
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I know of a page on a website I use that supposedly belongs to people in the IRA. According to the info on this page, there is still alot of turmoil going on between the IRA and the "Royals". This has been going on for many years, and I don't think it will ever end completely. But who knows?
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"Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are" Kurt Cobain
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#361168 - Sat May 12 2007 05:07 AM
Re: Northern Ireland
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Administrator
Registered: Sun Dec 19 1999
Posts: 38005
Loc: Jersey Channel Islands
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I will believe the peace when it happens.
Some years ago when I was an adviser at the Citizens Advice Bureau here a family came to see me, they were Irish. They had just fled from Ireland fearing for their lives, terrified. I didn't ask which side they were on, such information wasn't relevent. I fully believe them when they said that had they remained in Ireland they would have been a target.
I am never going to forget that family and often wonder if they are safe.
Hopefully the violence will now be at an end, but as I said, I will believe it when the killings stop and have been stopped for some years.
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Many a child has been spoiled because you can't spank a Grandma!
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#361169 - Sat May 12 2007 05:37 AM
Re: Northern Ireland
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Moderator
Registered: Tue May 15 2001
Posts: 14384
Loc: Australia
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Thanks for your post, Uiscebeatha, good to get a bit of an insight from someone there. Perhaps it will take a couple of generations to take the final edge off the inbred hatred but it's such a good start.
Spent a couple weeks in Belfast about 15 years ago and travelled around for a couple more weeks. Great city, great country.
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#361170 - Sat May 12 2007 08:38 AM
Re: Northern Ireland
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Enthusiast
Registered: Wed Mar 01 2006
Posts: 216
Loc: Antrim Belfast Ireland
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All of the comments are helpful and hopeful and another indication of the general goodwill towards Ireland / Northern Ireland out there. I just continue to hope that we can justify and fulfil peoples' best hopes for us.
One of the points that Sue raises is interesting. Almost all killings of the type most common during the worst of the fighting (loyalist / republican; Protestant / Catholic; IRA / Army/RUC and killings of civilians by ALL combatants) have ceased. There have been isolated and killings by paramilitary groups but these seem to have been attributable to internal wranglings and amounted to 'turf wars' between individuals. The full-scale sectarian tit-for-tat and the war against the British forces seems to have ceased for good.
During her time in office Mrs Thatcher used to say that 'Ulster is as British as Finchley'. She also persisted in speaking about 'terrorists and 'criminals' when a very, very, substantial number in Northern Ireland (rightly or wrongly is a matter of opinion) saw them as f'freedom fighters'. In doing so she misunderstood fundamentally the implacable oppostion of republicans / nationalists and continued to fan the flames of the conflict. It has taken a long time for it to be acknowledged that it is not as British as Finchley, that a very, very, substantial part of the population are vehemently opposed to being British and that is highly unlikely that Finchley constituents would be prepared to take up arms and conduct a sophisticated, co-ordinated and long-sustained campaign against the British Army and the RUC.
It has been Blair's / Aherne's and Clinton's success in getting Republicans to accept the consensus principle (NI remains part of the UK for as long as the majority in NI desire it) AND acknowledging Irish Republicanism as a totally legitimate and equally noble aspiration that has made a difference here. It was also the fact that,from a Republican perspective, the referenda were conducted simultaneously north and south of what is now a largely redundant border. This meant (for them )that the 'voice' which accepted the Good Friday Agreement was an all-Ireland voice. A voice of 'popular sovereignty' that supersedes (again from a Republican perspective) anything emanating from Westminster that requires Royal Assent.
So, the overall atmosphere has shifted quite significantly. The main Provisional IRA has ended its war; the main loyalist groups have declared their intentions to do so; Unionists feel safer given acceptance of the consent principle and Republicans are free to pursue their aim of a United Ireland.
Interested to read Copago's point about 'great city, great country'. This has been a consistent impression of visitors all through the Troubles (a typical Irish euphemism that term!). We have always been able to welcome others. Indeed, I remember speaking to many British and other journalists over the years and they told me that, in terms of ordinary crime / muggings / robberies / attacks on women etc, they felt safer in Belfast than in their own cities in the UK and elsewhere. Interesting point that! The vast, vast majority of ALL of our people are great people whether they are unionist, loyalist, nationalist or republican. A final point is that, by and large, I omit the terms Catholic and Protesant. Describing the conflict as a religious war or war between religions is a nonsense - the conflict is about national identity and political ideologies. No-one has died yet nor have any arms been taken up over the doctrine of Transubsantiation or the Westminster Confession of Faith!!
Sorry if that's a bit long-winded but it is an attempt to answer some of the questions, give some more background and acknowledge the optimism of some of the points raised by people outside the country.
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#361171 - Sat May 12 2007 03:46 PM
Re: Northern Ireland
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Multiloquent
Registered: Sun Aug 08 2004
Posts: 3609
Loc: Sth East Qld Australia
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