#366959 - Sun Jun 17 2007 02:11 PM
Re: Grammar Question: Why Can't We Say "Why Cannot?"?
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Moderator
Registered: Wed Oct 17 2001
Posts: 8479
Loc: Hastings Sussex England UK
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It’s the way usage has developed. “Why cannot we do this?” would have been quite acceptable a couple of hundred years ago. Jane Austen regularly writes things like:
You and I must establish a musical club, and have regular weekly meetings at your house, or ours. Will not it be a good plan? (from “Emma”).
But somehow our tastes have changed, and we now prefer to say “Will it not be?” or “Why can we not?”. In the contractions, however, we can’t separate the verb from the “not,” and so we have no alternative to “Won’t it be?” or “Why can’t we?”.
I’m not sure whether “Why cannot we?” is really ungrammatical. I think it’s probably just no longer idiomatic.
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Dilige et quod vis fac
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#366960 - Wed Jun 20 2007 08:25 AM
Re: Grammar Question: Why Can't We Say "Why Cannot?"?
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Star Poster
Registered: Sat Feb 10 2001
Posts: 18899
Loc: California USA
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It is odd because if you think of it, we don't normally say, 'let us all go to the movies' because it would come off as archaic. If we said in church, 'let's pray' it wouldn't sound quite formal enough!
What if you said, 'Let us dance!' to someone? In my case, they'd be laughing for two reasons because I can't dance worth beans.
In Northern American usage, you don't use the 'shall' much at all or you risk sounding a bit too formal. You probably would use it for 'Shall we go?' however.
I've never heard a North American use shan't unless they were joking. But I've known plenty of English speakers from areas of England who do. Then again, I went to school in the UK for a year, so it's normal that I heard it often.
When I taught English in France, I often had trouble explaining how to translate a suggestion or a command. They would always want to say, 'we go?' to get moving. It sounded very weird but it's logical for them.
I think some of these expressions have evolved over time and haven't necessarily taken the most logical path.
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I was born under a wandering star.
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#366961 - Sat Jun 23 2007 09:23 PM
Re: Grammar Question: Why Can't We Say "Why Cannot?"?
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Participant
Registered: Sat Jun 23 2007
Posts: 48
Loc: Illinois USA
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Some languages do use what we consider to be the cumbersome usage. I.e. in German you say "Lass uns gehen" (let us go) for "Let's go." I agree with the consensus that "Why cannot..." is probably quite allowable formally but is just not used because that's the way we talk.
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#366964 - Tue Jun 26 2007 02:43 AM
Re: Grammar Question: Why Can't We Say "Why Cannot?"?
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Enthusiast
Registered: Wed Mar 01 2006
Posts: 216
Loc: Antrim Belfast Ireland
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TabbyTom's point about what now seem odd or archaic forms of speech having been current and entirely acceptable some time back is very relevant. I could not find the exact sentence but only last week read 'had eat' in Dickens' 'Barnaby Rudge' and as illustrated by Tabbytom, Jane Austen uses many forms no longer 'acceptable'.
My now very elderly aunt who lived in Hawaii once met with President Eisenhower in her house on a golf course out there. She caused great amusement to the great man himself and his Secret Service entourage when, with customary Irish hospitality, she invited him and them to partake of refreshments by saying
'Sure, sit youse all down and I'll give youse a wee cup of coffee in your hand for I'm only after making it.'
Grammarians and lexicographers might well have a field day with parsing and analysis here. Interestingly, there are mixtures here of correct Shakespearean and direct translations of Irish into English. We, in the north of Ireland, retain more than elsewhere some Elizabethan constructions and meanings - e.g. university can be said as 'univarsity' in some areas. This is echoed elsewhere only in deliberately retained forms such as 'Varsity Match'(normally used now in relation to Oxford and Cambridge boat race, rugby matches etc). Some of us would use the word 'fond' not as meaning 'affectionate' but as 'foolish, overly keen, naive. 'You must be fond' a mother might say to her daughter insistent on going out even in the most inclement weather for example. King Lear uses the word exactly like this when he says 'I am a very foolish, fond old man'. Some of us also 'doubt' when we mean 'believe'and 'allow' when we mean suppose. Seamus Heaney says that 'some cherished archaisms are correct Shakespearean' with us.
Sometimes, therefore, and in some areas in particular it would be standard forms that would sound laughable, be regarded as pretentious and / or 'too fancy by half.'
I don't really know why I started on this train of thought but language is fascinating
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