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#398100 - Sun Nov 25 2007 02:40 AM Re: Aust. Federal Election
quogequox Offline
Prolific

Registered: Sat Sep 15 2001
Posts: 1050
Loc: Adelaide SA Australia      
The Liberal party were never going to win this election, it was just a matter of time for a change.
What staggers me is the doom and gloom involving the unions. I've had issues with the AMWU in the past but on the whole unions aren't evil, they there to protect their workers from exploitation, whats wrong with that?
I've got a friend who thinks the sky has fallen in because the Libs lost but if you ask him why all you hear is party rhetoric. Truth is he knows next to nothing about economics or indeed politics he's just the product of a Liberal party upbringing and he votes the way his parents did. I'm guilty of similar thinking but at least I've caught myself at it. Many voters will never change their "team" no matter what. I'm traditionally a Labor supporter (based on my teen commie stage i think) but I'd have voted for Liberals if they had Costello in charge. Same economics, less divisionism I would have thought. Hopefully I'll get the same result anyway.
Australian political parties are so similar as to be virtually identical with regard economic policies. Anybody who things one party or the other holds economic destiny in their hands is mistaken, short of complete stupidity of course (I'm referring to you Mr Whitlam). Australia is a very small fish in a large pond when the world goes up so do we when the world goes down likewise.
Now lets get onto the interest rate hoohaa, Australian lending rates were only fully deregulated during the Hawke government, deregulation beginning in the Fraser years. The boom 80s resulted in the "recession we needed to have" and the 17% interest rates of the 89-90 period. We'll never know if rates would have been as high under a Liberal party but interestingly under the regulated rates of the late 70s cash rates rose as high as 20% but the regulated rates were unable to follow, generally they go hand in hand. The US had gone through a similar inflation busting kick in the pants period in the early 80s. Anyway my point is( or was) that economics is cyclical both partys contain intelligent men and women (whether we love em or not) and they have any number of economic smarty pantses at their disposal.
But lets also remember it isn't all about the economy. I have a mortgage too but you know I'd pay more for a better world.
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#398101 - Sun Nov 25 2007 06:23 AM Re: Aust. Federal Election
damnsuicidalroos Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Mon Feb 10 2003
Posts: 2167
Loc: Sydney
NSW Australia
Quogequox my concerns regarding unions are also from personal experience. After being forced to join several unions ( a little like being forced to vote)and pay fees to do so my thoughts regarding union leaders started to turn dark,of course I was young,perhaps as young as some of our student posters here. One of the worst memories I have of the unions is the speed at which they went on strike after a member was caught stealing and sacked. Having seen that at first hand I was stunned and couldn`t see any benefit for myself by going on strike in support of a thief. Sadly that was just one instance of illogical strike action among many.

The financial gains I enjoyed as a shift worker at various businesses were appreciated by me but at the time I didn`t realise that if I worked for a little less someone else could be employed.I would have been overjoyed to take a pay cut knowing that I was doing so to give another mate a job. Well Howard broke the unions and unemployment is down.

Now that the unions have power again I believe their leaders will try a bit of catching up. Wages will certainly rise and along with that rise will come a steady increase in the cost of goods across the board. The cost of services will also rise and the Australian dollar will lose against foreign currencies. Inflation will be the inevitable result.

With rising interest rates many of those families that are struggling to keep up mortgage payments will simply not be able to afford to do it,they will lose their homes . Of course those that have the funds available to take advantage of the situation will make a killing. With more properties on the market housing prices will drop but of course that will happen too late for newcomers to the market and with the interest rates what they will be no-one but those with the money will be able to afford to buy anyway. The rich will get richer and the poor will (finally)get the picture ( I hate seeing my favorite singer playing politics btw).

With rising unemployment the crime rate will no doubt increase and with people losing their jobs and their homes murder/suicides will also increase. I still recall the newspaper reports of the suicides caused during the recession we had to have.

As much as I dislike the fact that we didn`t sign the Kyoto Agreement the sad fact is that when Rudd tries to green up Australia too quickly(with the encouragement of the communist party in disguise,the Greens) businesses will find it no longer economically viable to manufacture goods in Australia,less jobs and fewer exports and the balance of trade further down the drain.

Government corruption due to greedy power hungry unionists now politicians having access to public funds will be a weekly news story. As much as I appreciated the genuine shop stewards I knew I also felt that they were elected simply because no-one else wanted the job,not because they were particularly intelligent people. Many of the shop stewards I met were seemingly in it for a little bit of power and more than few were delusional egotists,man I still cannot get over the fact that every second page of every union newsletter had a photo of the mighty leader on it.

I hope I`m wrong and will take no pleasure when the above comes to pass. Saepe ne utile quidem est scire quid futurum sit.

Hehe and I know that the commitments that stopped me doing the weekly photo theme are now causing me to say that`s all I`ve got to say on this topic. Back to work!
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Responds to stimuli, tries to communicate verbally, follows limited commands, laughs or cries in interaction with loved ones.

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#398102 - Sun Nov 25 2007 08:00 PM Re: Aust. Federal Election
quogequox Offline
Prolific

Registered: Sat Sep 15 2001
Posts: 1050
Loc: Adelaide SA Australia      
The 1980s under Labor saw the accord successfully keep down wage driven inflation for years.
Unions have there place but just like business they need to know their place and be kept there. Your points re unions all have a ring of truth to them, especially nobody wanting the job... guilty. You know any good anarchist will tell you that the people who look for power are the last ones who should get it.
I've never gotten over what a scam holiday loading is.. but i've always taken it. My last non union workplace however refused to place mirrors in the bathrooms, despite working with powdered plastics and the danger of getting it in the eyes. Their idea of stopping a 30000 litre water tank after rolling it out of a hot mould is for somebody to stand in front of it. In a word their safety standards were nonexistant, I doubt this would be the case with a union presence.
I have never been forced to join a union, i've always joined willingly in any case, but I know it happens/ed quite a bit.
I just hope that the days of the radical union is on the way out, I believe it is, regardless of government in power. Some unions will attempt to flex some muscle and its the Rudd governments job to keep them in place, hopefully they succeed. Other unions of course may have legitimate reasons to seek action.
Government Corruption occurs know matter which party is in power, I suggest most of the issues for labor will be the same as their Liberal brethren, having a conflict of interest with business interests they own. This will never change.
Bring on the Revolution!
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Never moon a werewolf.

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#398103 - Sun Nov 25 2007 09:11 PM Re: Aust. Federal Election
MotherGoose Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Mon Apr 22 2002
Posts: 5007
Loc: Western Australia
Prior to the election, the main thrust of the Liberal campaign was to use scare tactics about what MIGHT happen if Labor won. I truly don't believe it will lead to the "doom and gloom" circumstances some people are predicting. Let's give them a chance.

On the subject of unions, I am against compulsory unionism but I think unions generally do more good than harm. Without them, we would not have the standard of living we enjoy today. I do think however, that checks and balances need to be put in place to stop unions holding employers to ransom without just cause.

On a personal note, back in the 1990's, I worked for a non-union organisation but because of workplace harrassment, I quietly joined the union without anyone's knowledge for my own protection. I was right to do so as I was eventually threatened with unfair dismissal and when my office manager found out I'd joined the union, she backed off really fast! I would definitely have lost my job for no reason other than the office manager didn't like me (I think she saw me as a threat to her own position as I was the only worker qualified to do her job, even though I didn't want it and made that perfectly clear to her). But I certainly wasn't the only person she victimised. I shudder to think what this workplace bully has been able to do people under WorkChoices.
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Don't say "I can't" ... say " I haven't learned how, yet." (Reg Bolton)

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