Em, I don't think I want to discuss this in another thread. I just know it would have a title like "Tielhard thinks TLOTR is rubbish - how are we going to sacrifice him to the creator of Middle Earth?".

I can see it now:

"I stand alone on the crumbling ramparts of my fantastic heresy looking out over the blasted plane towards the East where massed hordes of unthinking Tolkienites are forming up. Crazed elderly ex-hippies, veterans from earlier campaigns are its vanguard. The bulk of the horde is made up of deranged spotty teenagers, new age mystics and deluded anachronists their companies led by dissolute fantasy authors mounted on corrupt pot boilers bred from the very essence of Tolkien. In the far distance beyond the horde of delusions almost on the horizon is an even greater horde so vast it spans the world led by a mad Kiwi with the power to corrupt minds with a mirror of magic. Against this my armour of sarcasm and magic pen of reputation deflation can do nothing."

With no hope of support and without reinforcement I shall fade away to fight another day "Aluta continua".

Incidentally have you considered the young English writer China Mieville? His "Perdido Street Station" is not a series but it is nearly the size of a brick in paperback. It is also a bit of a one off.

Regards,

Tielhard

No one has mentioned the Zimiamvian books by E.R. Eddison, Tolkien's contemporary and friend, whose influence on the genre has been markedly less than that of LotR, but which deserves a place up there with it all the same. Not in a Tolkienesque vein, if you are looking for something that stays out of Tolkien's shadow.

Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy left me wondering why there is a Harry Potter phenomenon, with better and more interesting writing out there aimed at a similar demographic.

Fritz Leiber's Lankhmar books deserve high rank among the great fantasy series, as do some of Moorcock's various Eternal Champion series, most especially the Elric books.

With only two books they don't make a series, but The Elfin Ship and The Disappearing Dwarf by Blaylock are deeply enchanting. [I do not place the Stone Giant in the same class with the other two, and do not acknowledge that they make up a trilogy. The Stone Giant was never written, so far as I am concerned.]

I don't think anyone brought up LeGuin's Earthsea books, which are among the greats.

The best? Well, that is only a question that can be answered by failing to take into account that what comes after rides on the shoulders of what comes before, among other related simplifying and distorting assumptions, but brutally refraining from acknowledging any of the myriad debts one author can owe another, I would say that the best, by a very narrow margin, is probably Brust's Dragaeran series.

Tielhard,

You are too funny! LOL! With that lovely description I can only step aside and state that you have ended our little arguement fantastically!

Thanks for the ideas everyone, keep them coming! (I'm making a list)

Yes Earthsea, I had forgotten all about that what an excellent choice.

Blaylock and all that faux Victoriana, some of it is a bit hit and miss but at its best its excellent and it leads into SF and the Steam Punks by way of Tim Powers whom you neglected to mention? His Anubis Gate must be one of my all time favourites, again it's not a series but it is a big episodic book.

I also remember McAvoy's Damiano triology a little late but hey; Damiano, Damiano's Lute and Raphael. A bittersweet series of stories with some lovely characters.

Also I have finally come up with a series to propose as best Fantasy series ever (without my tounge in my cheek) how about the Niff the Lean stories by Michael Shea? The first is "Niff the Lean", the second is the "Mines of Beomoth(sp.)" and the third I cannot remember sorry!

Regards,

Tielhard

PS: On the subject of Orcs, Vanyar I don't suppose you've read "Grunts!" by, I think its Mary Gentle? Its not great by any stretch of the imagination but it is fun.

PPS: In the hills the guerrillas waited for the horde to pass ... thier time would come.

A book topic I can post in.....
Anyways... I love David Eddings' Belgariad, Mallorean and the two prequels. I also love Mercedes Lackey's "Chronicles of Valdemar" What I've read of Piers Anthony was great, I loved "Ogre, Ogre". What else... Brian Jacques "Redwall" books... I haven't yet finished LOTR, and I haven't started Harry Potter yet... prolly b/c i dun wanna feel like I'm getting on the bandwagon
Anyway
I think that's it...
Wolf

I'd give my vote to either The Lord of the Rings or Ursula K. LeGuin's Earthsea books. They're different. LOTR are very event-oriented, and Earthsea focusses much more on the characters.

Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series! If you like fantasy and haven't read these yet. Go to the bookstore. Go now. Go.

They look long, but not a chapter in them isn't full of action or great dialogue!

***Editing since I missed that you were only asking about those three. Hmm, I haven't read all the Narnia's or any LOTR's so I can't really judge.

Lloyd Alexander's Chronicles of Prydain. They may be children's books but they're still the best.

Of those three, the Chronicles of Narnia would have to get my vote. Harry Potter is good, but Narnia is classic. The Lord of the Rings bores me to tears, but I do love the elves!

Re: Goodkind's Sword of Truth series... I can't stand him. I'm not a into those "good" versus "evil" stereotypes. I prefer characters who are conflicted; I think it makes for a better storyline.

My favourite fantasy series is Dragonlance.

Oh! Editing to add that I loved The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. Donaldson is one of the best authors I've read.

Postscriptum:

Am re-reading Brust's Dragaeran series now, for the first time since high school (until just now had only read the Dragaeran pastiches of Dumas more recently; those really are superb).

On re-reading, they don't merit the pride of place I gave them above.

Don't want to give anyone a bum steer.

They remain good for their genre, but I can't endorse the high praise I accorded them based on fallible memory.

[Tielhard: the Iain M. Banks tip you gave me panned out -- he is among the best in hard science fiction. Weaker on fantasy if Inversions is representative. Haven't tried his mainstream stuff.]

I'm not a big fantasy reader so I don't have a lot to measure my choice with apart from LOTR, which has been well discussed, but I certainly thought it was a great read and a very interesting concept.

'The River World' series by Philip Jose Farmer had quite a few installments but by far the best was the first 'To Your Scattered Bodies Go.' All those who ever lived on Earth have found themselves resurrected. Healthy, young, and naked as newborns on the grassy banks of a river, in a world unknown. Miraculously provided with food, but with no clues to the meaning of their strange new afterlife, billions of people from every period of Earth's history and prehistory must start again.

I am not a big fan of fantasy either. Of the three books mentioned in the first post, I would have to say Harry Potter is my favourite. I'm on the wrong side of 40 but I didn't think it was childish. I originally read it in my role as parental censor. HP got a lot of bad publicity in Australia - some people felt the books would encourage children to dabble in witchcraft. I wanted to make sure it was okay for my child to read. I really enjoyed it and read all four books. I thought they were extremely funny!

I loved the Narnia series too and I read it when I was a child - that was a long, long time ago, so I don't remember much about the series.

I have to say, I didn't care for the Lord of the Rings series. I tried to read it several times but just couldn't get into it at all. I also went to see the first movie and was thoroughly bored! I've not yet met anyone who will admit to not liking LOTR (other than here in the forums). It's flavour of the month over here.

However, my vote for best fantasy author is Marion Zimmer Bradley. I loved Mists of Avalon and The Firebrand.

Quote:

---

However, my vote for best fantasy author is Marion Zimmer Bradley. I loved Mists of Avalon and The Firebrand

---

I second that vote!

Don't forget the Darkover series that made MZB's reputation. She was one of the first women to garner enormous fan literature and volumes published in the series by her fans are part of many people's collections. I always found this part of her charm, sharing the ideas that she'd created instead of keeping them all to herself. Thus, other aspects of her stories of Darkover and Terra and laran could be explored by others.

I haven't read any of the Darkover novels, because I'm worried that once I read one I'm going to want to read them all!
In the mean time I'm waiting for the new Avalon book, "Ancestors of Avalon", which is supposed to be released this month. MZB is credited as co-author even rhough she's been dead for a couple of years. Apparently it's supposed to fill in the gap between "Fall of Atlantis" and "The Forest House".

I will disregard Lord of the Rings on the grounds that it is one book not a series.

I will therefore have to go for Robert Holdstock's Mythago Wood series.

The first book 'Mythago Wood' is one of the most intiguing books I have read

A description -

Quote:

---

The story involves Steven Huxley, back fresh from the war and home again. What he encounters there is bizarreness at its finest. His father, George Huxley, is dead, consumed by his obsessions and nearly full mad at the end, and his brother Christian is not far behind in his own insanity. Their mutual obsession? The wood behind the house, called Ryhope Wood, which from the outside appears to be an ordinary 3 square mile bit of woodland, but on the inside harbors the heart of myth and the origin of mankind's imagination and legend. Not bad for a few trees. The inhabitants of this mystical wood are archetypal creatures of myth, dubbed "Mythagoes" by the late George Huxley....

---

Kuu, I don't understand what you mean by "I will disregard Lord of the Rings on the grounds that it is one book not a series".

LOTR is a trilogy of three books - The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers and The Return of the King. There is also The Hobbit and the Silmarillion. If this isn't a series, what is it?

The Lord of the Rings was written as one book and Tolkien wanted it published in a single volume. There is no doubt from his letters that he considered it to be only one novel. It was the publisher who insisted that it be broken up into three books. Therefore it is not a triology.

The Hobbit was basically written as a children's book, while the Silmarillion is a book of legends of Middle Earth and is told as 5 separate tales. Tolkien had actually wanted the Silmarillion to be published along with Lord of the Rings. He believed that they belonged together but again the publishers disagreed with him. The books were ready to be published in 1949. Because of the disagreement LOTR wasn't published until 1954 and the Silmarillion remained unpublished in Tolkien's lifetime.It was edited and published after his death by his son, Christopher.

Though all three works are about Middle Earth I think that the major differences between the works and the format (children's book, adult novel) they took disqualify them from being a true series.

But you can disagree with me as much as you like

Dear Kuu,

Since I haven't read the books, I wouldn't dream of disagreeing with you. It sounds like you know a lot more about this than me.

As I mentioned previously, I just couldn't get into LOTR at all but my husband and daughter love it. When my daughter was little, Maynooth read a bit of the Hobbit to her every night at bedtime.

I'm taking her to the stage production of "The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe" next week!

Ooooh can I come too??

LadyC, I wish you could have come with us. We went today to see "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe". It was fantastic - the best stage production I have ever seen. It was produced by the same people who did "The Hobbit", which we also saw, but it was even better than that.

Harry Potter is a great, humorous series. Unfortunately, the LOTR trilogy does not really interest me in book form. It was a wonderful movie, but it was slow going when I actually sat down to read it. I think the Chronicles of Narnia are the best of the three, because it has great writing. It was a parallel to Christianity, but why is that bad? It is an interesting way to look at the faith, and is very entertaining as well.

Another series that I truly enjoy is David Eddings' Belgariad and Mallorean. They are funny, well thought out, and I can re-read them over and over again. Anyone who enjoys lighter fantasy would really like those books.

Post-postscriptum.

Having finished rereading all the Brust books, in the final analysis what he has written in the last couple of years is quite good, but his early work doesn't stand up to my memories of it.

Also, in a previous post I didn't mention the Gormenghast books by Mervyn Peake as among the contenders.

Anyway, I'll vote now for Eddison's Zimiamvian books.

Another vote for Philip Pullman and His Dark Materials. One of the kids in my class recommended it-someone gave me the trilogy as a present and I am totally hooked! At present reading The Amber Spyglass-the last one unfortunately. Here is an author who appeals to everyone.
Philip Pullman. Is he the best storyteller ever?-OBSERVER

Of course in the end it's down to personal choice, and mine would be the following:

For easy reading (forgetting the religious impact) it has got to be the Narnia Chronicles which I have read over and over since 1983 (That speaks for itself)

For sheer action and fast pace it has to be Terry Goodkind's 'Sword of Truth' series,

For attention to detail and intricately developed plots/subplots/intrigue etc etc Robert Jordan's 'Wheel of Time' series was a favourite until he got too long-winded even for me, and has appeared to produce books now to keep the public buying without really advancing the plot much

And for historical interest I'd suggest Jean M. Auel's Clan of the Cave Bear series

And a 'never fails to please' author has to be Anne Mc Caffrey

I think that covers all my current favourites