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#436656 - Sat Aug 23 2008 06:02 PM "All of these answers"
percytherat Offline
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Registered: Wed Jun 04 2008
Posts: 23
Loc: Birmingham England UK      
I believe that a quiz with the answer to any questions is "all of these answers" as correct is very poor. If all of these answers are correct then none of them are wrong - therefore any of the answers should be marked correct.

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#436657 - Sat Aug 23 2008 08:59 PM Re: "All of these answers"
veronikkamarrz Offline
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Registered: Thu Dec 28 2006
Posts: 930
Loc: Carson City
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I have thought the same for quite a while, but since I never heard it said before, I guess I just went along...

Good for you percy, for speaking up!
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#436658 - Sat Aug 23 2008 10:34 PM Re: "All of these answers"
Lieberkuhn Offline
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Registered: Fri Jun 20 2008
Posts: 60
Loc: Pullman Washington USA      
I guess that's logically true. I never thought of it that way, maybe because I've had so many teachers put questions with "all of the above" as a choice on tests, I just accepted the convention.

It can be a bummer on timed quizzes when you select the first correct answer you see and move on. (I wrote a quiz with the "all of the above" choice, so I can't complain too much).

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#436659 - Sun Aug 24 2008 12:52 AM Re: "All of these answers"
MotherGoose Offline
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Registered: Mon Apr 22 2002
Posts: 5007
Loc: Western Australia
It is an essential characteristic of multiple-choice tests that, if there is more than one correct answer, then one chooses the BEST or most correct answer.

There is no rule that says all of the answers, except one, must be incorrect.

Any high school student can tell you that.
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#436660 - Sun Aug 24 2008 02:16 AM Re: "All of these answers"
Matthew_07 Offline
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Registered: Thu Jun 07 2007
Posts: 423
Loc: Malaysia
In educational measurement and evaluation, for questions with "all of these" or "none of these" options, they are considered not good. Questions like these will be answered correctly by test-wise students.

For example, let say you are given option X, Y, Z and all of these. Then, you know X and Y are correct but you are not sire about Z. So definitely you will go for "all of these".

But this is FUNtrivia. Everybody likes to get points for answering correctly.

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#436661 - Sun Aug 24 2008 06:56 AM Re: "All of these answers"
agony Offline

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Registered: Sat Mar 29 2003
Posts: 16595
Loc: Western Canada
Yes, these questions are a bit of a gimmee. And, yes, if you take them strictly literally, they don't quite work.

However, it's a convention, and we are all familiar with it. Life is full of conventions that are not meant to be taken literally, but are useful.

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#436662 - Sun Aug 24 2008 08:18 AM Re: "All of these answers"
skunkee Offline
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Registered: Thu Oct 16 2003
Posts: 10984
Loc: Burlington Ontario Canada  
I have also taken quizzes where 'all of these answers' is an incorrect answer choice, so you shouldn't be fooled by them.

While I agree that these questions can be overdone, I think that there can a place for an 'all of these' answer in a well written quiz. If the quiz is doing a good job of teaching me about a subject that I knew little about, I appreciate the fact that this type of answer will teach me three new things about the topic. I especially enjoy it when one of those answer choices is so bizarre (even if true) as to make me wonder, before checking 'all of the above', if it can really be true.

The types of question that I don't like are the ones that set out to trick you. These give an incorrect answer choice that is so close to the correct answer you click on it and are shocked when you get it wrong. I also don't like questions where all of the incorrect answers are so close to the the correct answer it becomes a guessing game. I see this a lot in questions about dates. Did it happen on Oct 11, Oct 12, Oct 13 or Oct 14, sort of thing.
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#436663 - Sun Aug 24 2008 09:42 AM Re: "All of these answers"
crisw Offline
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Registered: Mon Feb 21 2000
Posts: 5745
Loc: California USA
"I see this a lot in questions about dates. Did it happen on Oct 11, Oct 12, Oct 13 or Oct 14, sort of thing."

That's one reason why, in my categories I don't allow questions about dates (or any other numerical data.)
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#436664 - Sun Aug 24 2008 04:52 PM Re: "All of these answers"
percytherat Offline
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Registered: Wed Jun 04 2008
Posts: 23
Loc: Birmingham England UK      
I see the problem of "all of these answers" is that it does not teach - instead these answer is selected without reading the question. I worked in education and for two exam boards for many years and this style would not have made it onto an exam paper

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#436665 - Sun Aug 24 2008 04:56 PM Re: "All of these answers"
JuniorTheJaws Offline
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Registered: Sun Sep 09 2001
Posts: 5400
Loc: South Philadelphia PA USA    
Quote:

I see the problem of "all of these answers" is that it does not teach - instead these answer is selected without reading the question. I worked in education and for two exam boards for many years and this style would not have made it onto an exam paper.




The thing is this is not a school, it is a trivia website...for fun.
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#436666 - Sun Aug 24 2008 05:11 PM Re: "All of these answers"
ladymacb29 Offline
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Registered: Wed Mar 15 2000
Posts: 16214
Loc: The Delta Quadrant
Quote:

I see the problem of "all of these answers" is that it does not teach - instead these answer is selected without reading the question. I worked in education and for two exam boards for many years and this style would not have made it onto an exam paper




It made it into the New York State Regents exams for many years...
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#436667 - Sun Aug 24 2008 05:11 PM Re: "All of these answers"
percytherat Offline
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Registered: Wed Jun 04 2008
Posts: 23
Loc: Birmingham England UK      
I realise that - I was answering the post by mothergoose - one of the objects of the quizzes is to educate - not my idea but that of the administrators. If I asked you which of these was a letter of the alphabet A, B, C, or all of them - which is the wrong answer, they are all correct?

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#436668 - Sun Aug 24 2008 05:19 PM Re: "All of these answers"
percytherat Offline
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Registered: Wed Jun 04 2008
Posts: 23
Loc: Birmingham England UK      
What was origially meant to be something of a lighthearted comment along the lines of logic does seem to have stirred up some antipathy

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#436669 - Sun Aug 24 2008 05:40 PM Re: "All of these answers"
Pagiedamon Offline
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Registered: Sun Jun 15 2008
Posts: 2592
Loc: North Carolina USA
I like to use and see "all of these" in quizzes occasionally. As Skunkee mentioned, this type of answer will teach us three new things about the topic, instead of just one. And sometimes "all of these" is the WRONG choice and is a great red herring option. :-)

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#436670 - Sun Aug 24 2008 05:52 PM Re: "All of these answers"
Lieberkuhn Offline
Explorer

Registered: Fri Jun 20 2008
Posts: 60
Loc: Pullman Washington USA      
I think the point is valid - if all of these are true than any of them are. I'm also recalling that, as MotherGoose wrote, most teachers will write "select the BEST answer" to forestall that very argument, and by now that can probably be considered an implied quiz convention.

I also think too many people make "all of the above" the too-obvious correct answer. A quiz I wrote with that as the wrong answer had only 13% of people getting it right. Lower than random chance, I suspect because everyone expects it to be correct (it was also kind of a stupidly hard question, but that's a separate issue).

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#436671 - Sun Aug 24 2008 06:01 PM Re: "All of these answers"
percytherat Offline
Participant

Registered: Wed Jun 04 2008
Posts: 23
Loc: Birmingham England UK      
I think Lieberkuhn haa summed it up perfectly

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#436672 - Sun Aug 24 2008 08:41 PM Re: "All of these answers"
veronikkamarrz Offline
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Registered: Thu Dec 28 2006
Posts: 930
Loc: Carson City
Nevada USA 
Ok, since we've summed it up...I also have a problem with FITB clues. You read the question, and have an answer. Then the "clue" says two words, or one word. You change your answer to one that also fits, but with the correct number of words. Submit answers, and see that the clue was "iffy." Just for instance: Pay Day (two words) or Payday (one word) but the clue specifically said ONE word. Maybe clues should be eliminated?
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#436673 - Sun Aug 24 2008 09:07 PM Re: "All of these answers"
spanishliz Offline
Champion Poster

Registered: Thu Dec 13 2001
Posts: 23115
Loc: Ontario Canada
Clues are far too useful when writing Cryptics or any sort of brain teaser for them to be eliminated.

When you see an "iffy" clue, send a correction note. The FITB questions come from Funtrivia quizzes, so an editor will see the note, even if the author is gone and can change the clue to reflect the options.

Spanishliz (Editor)

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#436674 - Sun Aug 24 2008 11:05 PM Re: "All of these answers"
veronikkamarrz Offline
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Registered: Thu Dec 28 2006
Posts: 930
Loc: Carson City
Nevada USA 
Thanks Liz. I know the clues won't be eliminated, but it's happened quite a few times. I know the answer, but then look at the clue, and change my mind. If there are 'one' OR 'two' words, the clue should say that.
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#436675 - Mon Aug 25 2008 06:03 AM Re: "All of these answers"
jonnowales Offline
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Registered: Mon Oct 30 2006
Posts: 1529
Loc: Swansea
Wales UK
I like the occasional "All of These" answer as long as it isn't overused. I think the problem arises when we are looking for logic in what is meant to be a bit of fun. Why does there have to be a wrong answer? Though, it stands to reason that the vast majority of quizzes will have one correct answer and three wrong answers.

I am a student and am tested and examined constantly and I don't think I would be here if I felt like I was being examined again. It is great therefore that quiz authors here make the quizzes seem fun and if it takes an "all of these" every now and again, I don't have any aversion to it. I think I may have used it in a few of my quizzes and the reverse - "none of these".

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#436676 - Mon Aug 25 2008 07:24 AM Re: "All of these answers"
skunkee Offline
Star Poster

Registered: Thu Oct 16 2003
Posts: 10984
Loc: Burlington Ontario Canada  
veronikka I think that some of the issues you deal with in FITB questions are there to forestall Correction Notes. I know I often give more than one possible corect answer for that very reason.
Using your example of PAYDAY, since that is the proper way to spell the answer (if memory serves me it's a chocolate bar - right?) then that would be my first choice in the answer box and the hint box would automatically generate a 'One word' clue. However if I didn't also allow PAY DAY, I would get all kinds of correction notes from people who would loudly complain that they shouldn't have been cheated out of ten points simply because they put a space between the words. You would be amazed at how rude some people can get for only 10 points!
So, my answer box would probably read 'PAYDAY & PAY DAY' even though the hint would only say (One word).
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#436677 - Mon Aug 25 2008 10:44 AM Re: "All of these answers"
dg_dave Offline
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Registered: Sun Oct 05 2003
Posts: 24575
Loc: near Stafford, Virginia USA
Quote:

Using your example of PAYDAY, since that is the proper way to spell the answer (if memory serves me it's a chocolate bar - right?)




It is indeed a chocolate bar, but I haven't seen one in quite some time...are they still made?
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#436678 - Mon Aug 25 2008 12:35 PM Re: "All of these answers"
maninmidohio Offline
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Registered: Mon Dec 03 2007
Posts: 9742
Loc: Newark
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Not exactly a chocolate bar since there is no chocolate. It is a candy bar still made by Hershey's, "Peanut Caramel Bar, with sweet caramel and tons of salty peanuts."

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#436679 - Mon Aug 25 2008 11:53 PM Re: "All of these answers"
veronikkamarrz Offline
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Registered: Thu Dec 28 2006
Posts: 930
Loc: Carson City
Nevada USA 
Yes, the discription is pertfect, maninmidohio.

This just seems sillier, and sillier, but the fact is, I changed my answer to (lets say "mounds") because the clue was ONE WORD. Not 'possibly' TWO words.

I'm just saying, if the answer might give a 'one, two' correct, there shouldn't be one at all, OR give both possibilities IN THE CLUE, not the answer. By then, it's too late!
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#436680 - Tue Aug 26 2008 08:50 AM Re: "All of these answers"
skunkee Offline
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Registered: Thu Oct 16 2003
Posts: 10984
Loc: Burlington Ontario Canada  
I'm sorry but I'm not sure I understand the point you're trying to make. If the answer was PAYDAY and the hint said (One Word) then everything was correct. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you wanted the quiz writer to not only allow PAY DAY, which is essentially a wrong answer as spelling does count in FITB answers, but to also put it in the hint.
This could get really out of hand for some answers, with hints maybe having to say (One, Two or Three words), for example, which does become silly. I can see saying One or Two words for two ways of writing the correct answer (as I've seen in some Brain Teaser quizzes), but not for allowing what is essentially an incorrect answer.
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