BxB,
I heartily agree that our example isn't always the best! That was part of the reason I left our country in my late teens. (I was out for over a decade and back now for two.) But ever since Teddy Roosevelt picked up his big stick and sent the Great White Fleet around the world, we've been the world leader.

Jordan,
I think Wdstk is referring to Guiliani's and Palin's mockery of Obama's work as a community organizer in Chicago...while touting her work in the PTA.

In terms of weaponry and millitary power I say we might still be the world leader.

We are good in many social areas as well, but behind in some other social issues.

Are we now at the point in history, where having the biggest millitary doesn't put you at the head of the table, only gets you a seat at the table.

"When you vote remember you are going to decide the future of the world for the next four years."

papo, with all respect, that is a very overwhelming and somewhat naive statement. We, the American voters, seem to be looked down upon by many on this site and are constantly under criticism, while others are encouraging and often complimentary.

"Decide the future of the world" - isn't that putting a bit much on us and discounting the actions and peoples of all the other countries that make up this wonderful, yet often disparaging, state of affairs we as a world find ourselves in? We are criticized daily for our invasion and military actions toward other countries while at the same time *expected* to play the role of leader and peacekeeper. You can't have it both ways.

queproblema,
Thank you! It makes sense to me now and I feel rather foolish that I didn't put 2 and 2 together on that one, since I did hear all the remarks made.

Edited to add when I said "You can't have it both ways", I meant 'you' as a generalization and not you, papo, personally.

Well ... I'm not sure, but I think I understand what papo's saying. This election will hopefully have a mighty impact to we as Americans, and where our lives (in any number of places) stand. But, in terms of the world (and aside from our domestic disarray here), the impact will be felt globally as well. Yes ~ I, too, hate that the United States is often viewed as "too powerful", especially in light of the fact that we have (well, WE haven't, as individuals, but our governing body HAS) misused that [alleged] power with regularity over the past 8 years. No, we're not the only ones who have ... and, no, we're not responsible for every wrong thing on the planet (which, more than occasionally, we are said to be). But if this election goes right, and if the next administration functions effectively, it WILL matter to the whole world. We don't have all the power, but we do have enough of it, and then some, that it's only right that other countries pay attention to this election. And follow it closely and with interest.

My big hope is that if the next President turns out to be a (God forbid) 'dud', that we won't get blamed and discredited as an entire population for another near decade. We can only buy what these candidates say they CAN do, WILL do, WANT to do. All we really have to work with, beyond that, are very different backgrounds, experiences, values, and so forth. I, too, hope we "choose" right. If only we had a crystal ball ...

I think the choices this election are better then eight years ago, and extremely better then four years ago.

I don't mind people from the rest of the world looking to the U.S. to be a role model, just don't stop there when looking for ideas on how to make things better.

I believe I understand too what papo is saying, Gats, and of course we impact and affect the rest of the world. Your remark re the next President is what I was trying to get across, but maybe I didn't do it effectively. This is what I have a problem with, as you said, "that we won't get blamed and discredited as an entire population for another near decade." It seems as if many of the people from other countries think that we do have all the power as individual voters, power beyond the ballot we cast in the polling booth, and possibly don't understand the Electoral College, Superdelegates and their roll, and all the other factors that come into play. I feel fairly confident in saying that based on the questions and misinformation I have seen on this site alone. I would love nothing more than to see this country get back on it's feet and truly become a shining example for the rest of the world, rather than the brunt of jokes and snide remarks.

You know, when you get right down to it, it makes little difference in one's daily life who is in the White House. It's all ideology, and every four years we temporarily polarize this country into two, and sometimes three camps. As long as water comes out of my shower, my garbage gets picked up regularly, and the police department stays in business, the goings on in Washington, as hyped, magnified and sensationalized by our media makes for good entertainment. I've actually heard people say that they would leave the country if some candidate were elected. So far I've never received a post card from some far away Shangrila with a better way of life that we have in the good old USA. I quit taking life and myself too seriously years ago.

I just hope this debate continues onward without stopping. I hope I don't have the last word, as has been mysteriously happening to me.

rblayer makes good sense. Nothing they do in Washington has a direct affect on our personal lives, but there is a connection, now and then.

I'm feeling like there is a disconnect between those we place into office by pressing a button.

Somehow they seem to forget who got them the job to begin with.

Although you may hear rhetoric that says they want to give the little guy a voice again in government, fact remains, the powerful special interests still run the show.

BxBarracuda said either result will give us something to look forward to.

That is possible.

From an average citizen's perspective, many feel that Bush sending out stimulus checks was more than any Democrat would do for us.

Fact is, somebody will have to pay up for that some day.

They are banking on a return to properity again, you know, houses getting sold and people landing good jobs again.

In this new globalized world economy, everything is starting to look very shaky now.

Who knows when and if prosperity will return, no matter who wins the election.

I do know that the excesses of capitalism overbuilt too many houses and condominiums just when tens of thousand of people were losing jobs.

When people become uemployed, they generally move in with firends and relatives.

Thus, we have huge tracts of land now containing homes and condos with nobody living in them.

Amazes me to no end the excesses of our capitalist system.

I'm a liberal Democrat, but I used to like McCain--he seemed genuine to me. But Palin is so anti-environment and so socially conservative that I have lost my respect for him. Palin does not seem to honor--at all--the notion of separation of church and state. If McCain is elected and dies in office, we will have a far right Supreme Court for the next 30 years, minimum. And we can say goodbye to any positive steps toward averting global climate change (not to mention bidding farewell to polar bears). Truly, I'm very frightened by this.

--Robyn

I have found this thread to be, in short, fascinating. As an Australia, I could be forgiven for thinking that this has nothing to do with me.

I agree with Gats (no surprise there) and Jordandog - your choices as American voters has the potential to impact across the globe - White it is a local decision, the impact has the potential to be felt far and wide.

I appreciate that many other people of the world have assumed that all American citiziens (and the general populace) is the same as George W - after all, he is your leader. Australians for the past 8 years have delighted in belittling our American 'friends' for the fact that Dubya has been your guiding light. The joke is over - we now have a Prime Minister named Kevin. *sigh* you should never give out what you are not prepared to give back.

For what it's worth - I don't care for Ms Palin. She seems (already) to be a hypocrite (no sex ed, and a pregnant teen daughter do not marry up in my head), and seems more than willing to play low-ball politics. I really don't think that the USA needs another right-wing redneck in the oval office, woman or not.

As a woman, I respect the fight that has gone of for many, many years to be equal. We should have the right to choose about our bodies, and we should have the right to be educated on same. Don't get me started on her stance on reproductive rights, or the teaching of creationism in schools without a balanced view of evolution (I personally would prefer to let both be taught so that students receive a balanced view), and we know that teaching 'abstinence-only' birth control to kids doesn't work - That woman doesn't need to look further than her own back yard to see that!

As for her stance on gun control, well I've made my views quite well known for some time. I like a woman who can hold her own - I think I'm a good example of this. I can do a lot of things that are considered male-domain, but I would never sell out the rights of my womanhood for a position in office. Just as I would not compromise malehood for a position in office.

To be short - that woman scares me. Not in a personal or physical sense, there is just something about her that sends my spider senses tingling. Good thing I don't get to vote, eh?

My previous post was corrected thanks to the input of jordandog.

The subject of taxes being raised is what the McCain/Palin ticket warns will happen with a Democratic victory.

Taxes can be a touchy subject. There are all kinds.

My previous posts point out how revenue from fines could alleviate the need to tax through income taxes, but the revolving door allows for favoring special interests since they contribute most toward our democratic process.

As is evident with Governor Palin, to kill the goose that lays the golden egg (Exxon Mobil) wouldn't get us more revenue. However, it can be argued that the disaster of the Exxon Valdez merits a huge fine, into the multi billions...one that would be a lesson learned for all corporate interests...not just fining the abusers minimal amounts that get us nowhere.

After all, last I checked with the World Almanac (book of facts), corporations pay half the income taxes that individuals pay. In addition, they find tax loopholes by investing in spurious ventures that appear fraudulent. (once documented brilliantly by P.B.S.) The subject of taxation can be highly confusing and many of us will be lost trying to understand it. What comes to mind is the high real estate taxes paid for the best education, and sometimes the best education is not a direct result of high real estate taxes. The disparity can be seen where some people may have several children benefiting from the best education, while others pay high real estate taxes and have nobody receiving the benefits of better education. This in turn leads to changing demographics and a tendency to deplete resources and cause more dependency on the Federal government. With a nine+ trillion dollar national debt, almost twice what it was eight years ago, nobody knows where it all ends. Fact is, 94% of that debt was bought by foreigners in recent years, and that tells of other interests owning America.

And may I add, jordandog brought out something that has many people upset because other nations have better and more affordable medical care and/or medications...thus making our vote favor those politicians who can do more for that sector requiring certain specific medical treatment.

I didn't mean to omit that important issue which I don't have a need, but many others do.

ecnalubma, again I hear the word "scary", and again I have to ask, what could be more scary than what we've seen in recent years...this being September and a reminder of seven years ago...my how time flies.

Dear Sue 943,
Twice I have posted my opinions on the subject and although they were abiding by the rules they were posted but immediately done away with.
Would you be so kind as to tell me why ?
I thank you in advance.

I'm not Sue943, but ...
papo2228 ---> I believe your posts are still there. Just on the page before this one? Unless you've made some since ...

papo, I also see 2 posts from you on this page in addition to your question about them above. Is it possible you were looking at only the first page of the thread?

Here's an interesting, entertaining (and nicely well-written, too ) opinion piece I was reading this morning. Worth a look, I think - and *warning!* - more than a few city blocks biased. Not that any political opinion isn't, of course ...

Intersting piece, Gatsby.

Can you imagine what people are discussing in their private abodes?

I can.

So much news on the political front, and when it gets disseminated, we come out confused or downright bamboozeled.

One day Sarah's wearing bangs, and then a quick make-over for her "speech of her life" (no more bangs?)...and it's rah, rah, rah!

I mean, common people all over the country, downtrodden with their own individual problems, are now being asked to make serious choices..none of which have any connection to what their image of a president should be.

And then, we hear a voice, a nice-sounding voice, making strategic comments and "taking the high road", and we ask ourselves, is Obama the one?

It's pathetic to watch Sen. McCain wooing his choice for VP, her "beautiful" family, and forcing her down our throats because, hey, 82% of Alaskans think she's grand...whether shooting a moose or fixing a rifle on a target...is this the image one conjures up of female?

And then that voice...again and again, sounding so eloquent and forceful and determined...inspiring us to do better, to excel...to succeed.

No, not Palin...not McCain...Obama.

Having said this much, you decide for yourselves.

I just hate when all of them say..."the stakes are too high".

In Sarah's case, I guess she would mean Moose steaks.

If I read well and see the presidential nominees are McCain and the unknown governess of Alaska, I must say "We need you badly Hillary Clinton."

That was op-ed at it's best, Gats, which can be viewed as either good or bad. I found this statement by the author to run contrary to much of what I read and heard before McCain finalized his VP pick. "His first choice was reported to be Senator Joseph Lieberman, a man who stood up to the Democratic Party to the extent that he isn’t even a Democrat anymore." Many Republicans in the hierarchy felt that there would be a walkout on Lieberman at the convention because he is not viewed as a true Republican. I personally would have been very surprised if Joe Lieberman was named, though not as surprised as I was at Palin.

papo,
Perhaps I am confused or misinterpreting this from you: "We need you badly Hillary Clinton." What I am wondering is whether or not you realize that Hillary Clinton cannot walk in and take the place of Joe Biden as Obama's running mate on the Democratic ticket. Unless, of course, some unforeseen circumstance prevented Biden from running or he decided to withdraw on his own, which I highly doubt would happen. At this point the two parties' nominees are *locked in* for all intents and purposes.

Just an aside thought, not going anywhere with it...would anyone like to watch a debate between Obama and Palin, or McCain and Biden?

Old school vs new school?

I would imagine that Obama would dominate such debate.

He had experience against Hillary Clinton, and that was a tough fight to the end.

With McCain and Biden, these two well experienced politicians are actually friends.

That would not be appropriate, but if no holds were barred, maybe we could get something revealed about the inner workings that we aren't privy to.

Just a thought...that's all.

Remember, all four are in line for the presidency, a chilling thought, I imagine. (Given the complex world we now have)

Having seen and heard Obama in a debate already, and seeing him falter on issues without the real nitty-gritty ones yet being brought to the floor, I think Palin would clean up against him. He has not shown me anything beyond the obvious flair and charisma he has for public speaking. I could also be dead wrong on that!

Now, ain't that the truth?

I was just visiting my brother in the Pacific Northwest, and now, years after all those loggers lost their incomes, the barred owl is "attacking" the poor little spotted owl.

Of course I'm sorry to see the demise of any species, but why do environmentalists blame everything on Republicans? I guess we aren't only dinosaurs ourselves, but also caused the mass extinction, too, 65,000,000 years ago.

What a feisty little woman Sarah Palin is, single-handedly finishing off the polar bears!

This isn't my usual tone; perhaps I'll repent later.

Does it bother anybody but me that the Republican Party is not allowing any contact between Sarah Palin and the press, it being now 5 days after her speech at the Republican convention? Supposedly they're going to continue this for a while by restricting her availability to only news organizations that they deem friendly to them.

My suspicion for the reason this is occurring is that she is so weak on really any matter other than how to promote herself that she's receving a crash course in canned answers and how to avoid giving any real answers defending her positions, which when closely examined, are fairly extremist. We can expect a host of new positions that have been fed to her, that are more defensible than the old and true ones.

The Republican machine is of course making the argument that this is perfectly fine, with a sophomoric argument in the order of: "Look, what a lot of meanies the press are toward Sarah!" Since it's their obvious opinion that she can't stand up to the terrifying Chris Matthews, one would have to wonder how she'll be able to stand up to Iranian extremists or Vladimir Putin. The latter tend to be swayed much less by free money than her core constintuency in Alaska.

First off....shhhhh!

Shhhhh!

That's the J. McCain tone, because when you get too loud, maybe secrets will spill out, and we don't need to know them.

I can't get it out of my mind that clip I heard a few years ago, when reporter Maria (Schriver) Schwartznegger, wanted to ask Mc Cain a question, and he shoved her off, in his nice and quiet way.

That's what we need, a nice and quiet president...that keeps us like mushrooms that we are.

Why have one that shouts out and has different levels of speech, displaying all the emotions of a genuine person...nah...we need nice and quiet.

And since Ms. Palin is a die hard Reagan follower, well it stands to reason, nobody in the press is going to be favorable.

Again, it's typical McCain shunning potential threats.

It's no good to have everything out in the open, including all the dirty laundry.

Is anybody ready to lead, by the way?

I want to dance, so I'll try to lead.

I mean, the B.S. is high, and the debts keep mounting, but it's good to be nice and quiet.